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dorkwood · 6 years ago
I use to think of networking as “going to events and handing out my business card”, which I could never quite bring myself to do. I figured I just wasn’t cut out for the whole networking thing.

What I ended up realising after looking back over my career was that I’ve been networking this whole time without even meaning to. By generally working hard and being friendly those who have come and gone over the years, I now have a pretty sizeable network of people who will vouch for me. If someone ever asks me for networking advice, it will be “find a job where other people are doing the same thing as you, and then become someone they enjoy working with”.

leereeves · 6 years ago
The dark side of that is discrimination when "someone they enjoy working with" is based on more than a friendly attitude and hard work.

And I'm not just talking about the politically favored and protected groups. I'd say it applies even more so to groups that don't get that political support.

bilbo0s · 6 years ago
To be fair, everyone kind of already knew that "it's all about who you know", so to speak. So the fact that disenfranchised people tend to stay disenfranchised is not really news to most people who followed the inevitable implications of that adage.
znpy · 6 years ago
> The dark side of that is discrimination when "someone they enjoy working with" is based on more than a friendly attitude and hard work.

In my experience friendly or not, people tend to be quite honest when vouching or generally asked an opinion on someone.

Referring a bad candidate (or an incompetent one) will damage your reputation/credibility, and most people don't want that.

jniedrauer · 6 years ago
We don't live in a fair society, and I think we all know that. I would not have experienced the same degree of success if I looked different or had an accent, even if the quality of my work was the same. There's nothing meaningful I can do with that information though.
ThomPete · 6 years ago
Thats a feature not a bug. Networks are based on trust. You have a shared interest in making sure your recommendations work out and there is nothing more valuable than knowing who you recommend will work out.
joncrane · 6 years ago
I think more accurately, it's based more on a friendly attitude than hard work.
caprese · 6 years ago
Network with people that look like/conform to the majority power in your market. They have the same background as other people that are decision makers in that market.

Getting married to one country's politically struggling groups or disenfranchisement issues is playing a totally different game, and is a total waste of time for this game.

I do this in a lot of markets. Almost country by country when necessary. Work with someone that looks like money in that market. Go to the places they are. Don't masquerade your pride of being the front person of your company as 'progress' that society let you get that far just to inspire 4 year olds, unless that is honestly the game you are trying to play.

Although my own background and success would probably inspire people "that look like me", alongside the general distribution of wealth and status seekers

agumonkey · 6 years ago
that's proper networking, but networking can also means oligarchy~ where you just get inside groups because people know you and you're just not bad enough to get the boot.
ed_balls · 6 years ago
Even having a Github profile and some open source contributions is networking in my book.
mcguire · 6 years ago
Passive networking isn't very effective.
ravenstine · 6 years ago
> I use to think of networking as “going to events and handing out my business card”,

Even this works a bit too well, to be honest.

pytyper2 · 6 years ago
This is the most important point. Networks are created mostly, not only born into. Success recognizes skill, by developing a skill then ASKING to work for successful organizations(big and small) the network grows naturally.

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drinfinity · 6 years ago
Network above your pay-grade, these people are more interesting. Colleagues are useless.
philipkiely · 6 years ago
I strongly disagree with your points. Building a trusted group of peers is the most valuable action you can take in establishing a network. I don't dispute the value of mentors and high-ranking friends, I know many people who can attribute a large part of their success to the right person in the right position.

However, a group of peers provides the following benefits:

* support and camaraderie, as you are likely facing the same challenges at the same times

* a more natural connection and more conducive environment for meeting and regularly interacting

* a rising tide that raises the whole group, as you help each other gain more success

Finally, I would say that your idea comes dangerously close to the idea of "kissing up and kicking down," which I personally find to be an unfortunate and disingenuous style of network management that discourages me from working with that person.

zolthrowaway · 6 years ago
Did the people above my pay grade just magically get there? Are none of my colleagues ever going to advance in their careers? Why wouldn't I want to cast a wide net? Why wouldn't I be friendly and nice to my coworkers?

I've gotten jobs through former co-workers who have moved on to new companies. Some of my peers have been promoted into management and having a good relationship with them prior has given me a leg up. It's so incredibly easy to network with your colleagues. Just work hard and be a decent person and the network will create itself. Acting so dismissive of colleagues is short-sighted and silly.

drinfinity · 6 years ago
Oh right, I forgot to mention I'm not a wage slave and not in a hurry to become one either.

I was talking about actual business opportunities. Good luck getting anywhere by being friendly to the, quick frankly, annoyingly arrogant sysadmin. Sure, some of them are nice - although most of them aren't because of the nature of the job, but that's not the point. We all are "nice" people, that does not pay the bills.

loco5niner · 6 years ago
That's called brown-nosing and it's not attractive.
yowlingcat · 6 years ago
If you could effectively network above your pay-grade, your pay-grade would be different. Then again, if you think colleagues are useless, that will likely not help anything -- does that mean if you were your own colleague, you would think you are useless?
ZeroFries · 6 years ago
How do those who move often (or at least a few times in their lives) manage to re-establish a network in the areas they move to? I think a lot of the reason people are reluctant to move for better opportunities on paper is the fear of the sudden lack of network.
breakpointalpha · 6 years ago
This is a real problem that I have faced on more than one occasion.

Best advice I can offer is "clubs", but I've had mixed success.

By clubs I mean, tennis clubs, golf clubs, social clubs, etc. This is where church used to have a big part to play in the social fabric of America.

ghaff · 6 years ago
Most of my professional networking is virtual mixed in with traveling to some events (and, of course, work colleagues though I work remotely). I do local activities with a couple clubs as well as more ad hoc things, which is good from a social perspective, but TBH it's never been especially relevant from a professional/job perspective.
jedberg · 6 years ago
Many do it through religion. My friend's dad was in the Navy, so they moved a lot. The first thing they did when they got to a new town was find a church and get heavily involved in their activities.
Timothee · 6 years ago
One thing you can try is to leverage your existing local network to start a new one, by asking "do you know anyone there?" and go from there.

That part probably works even better with online networks as they're likely to be more scattered around the world.

You can then go from a few initial people in the new area and ask them if they have people they think you should meet.

heurist · 6 years ago
By joining local institutions and listening for opportunities, I assume.
bigbaguette · 6 years ago
Very relevant, and after a couple years away, coming back home and see the network you had faded away as well.
kkarakk · 6 years ago
well ofc if you're a strong link in that network it will fade away - it's not a network in that case just a string of people you know. networking also includes introducing people who can help each other and cross pollination so the mesh is strong.
isolli · 6 years ago
It reminds me of this research [0] showing that sons of wealthy slave owners (who presumably lost a large chunk of their "wealth" after the civil war) had caught up or surpassed sons from similarly wealthy households by 1880.

Conclusion: "This paper adds another data point to our understanding of intergenerational wealth transmission. Our conclusion: it’s not the resources here, it’s the social connections."

[0] https://twitter.com/leah_boustan/status/1112689110819442690

gwern · 6 years ago
It's an amazing paper but their interpretation of the results that "it's all social connections" is completely unsupported by their evidence and more consistent with standard human-capital / genetic inheritance.
danharaj · 6 years ago
Could you elaborate?
ABCLAW · 6 years ago
>who presumably lost a large chunk of their "wealth" after the civil war

I mean, having to hire labour rather than owning slaves changes the cost structure of their businesses, but it doesn't mean their plantations suddenly stopped growing things.

If anything, this points towards the idea that slavery was economically inefficient.

HarryHirsch · 6 years ago
For a more recent example, see nail parlors in the US. They were started by officers from the Vietnamese army who had come as refugees to the country.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32544343

papermill · 6 years ago
That's interesting but I guess expected since a major component of success is access to power and capital. I remember reading something a while back that a significant portion of the post-war japanese and german economy, industry and government were controlled by the descendents of vanquished elites.

I wonder how the children of our politicians and business elites do compared to ordinary folks? In the US, we have been brainwashed with the propaganda about meritocracy that we blindly believe as an absolute truth as children. It's only when we get older we realize that success has a lot more to do with connections than hard work.

SmellyGeekBoy · 6 years ago
More than who realizes? Having been in business for 10 years now I'll tell you for free that networking is everything.
charlesdm · 6 years ago
With the right people, yes. You generally don't meet those at "networking" events. If anything, you'll find other peddlers trying to sell you something. You do meet those by throwing dinner parties, talking to and meeting interesting people, going to charity events, and through hobbies.
ghaff · 6 years ago
It's why "networking" often gets a bad rep. So many of these events are, as you say, people passing out business cards looking for consulting ops, a job, etc. By contrast, socializing, participating in various activities, staying in touch with former colleagues, and so forth is very valuable. Personally, every job I've had since the first post-graduation one has been through someone I knew. None were jobs I "applied for."
ClassyJacket · 6 years ago
" If anything, you'll find other peddlers trying to sell you something."

I just got back from a "networking" event and this is 100% accurate.

whytaka · 6 years ago
I would appreciate an intro course on this.
overthemoon · 6 years ago
I suspect there's a disconnect between "people succeed because of their network" vs "I succeeded because of my network". I fall into that trap sometimes, and I have to remind myself I got my first dev gig because someone I'd known for a long time convinced his company to take a risk on me.

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wglb · 6 years ago
It is good that you did. I was about 20 years in before I realized that the arc of my career was built on networking that I didn't really know that I was doing.
bradam · 6 years ago
Network scientist Zsolt Barabási said [1] that in his latest book that networking is one of the most important thing to do, if you want to be successful.

Of course, first you need to get some valuable skills, but especially in careers where the performance can’t be ordered (e.g: art, design) the only thing that matters is to know people who are well known.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Formula-Universal-Laws-Success/dp/031...

KingFelix · 6 years ago
His book was pretty good, skimmed through some of the extra examples, but networking is key.

I consider myself a super connector, and more often than not find myself in the right place at the right time, making connections for friends, colleagues, acquaintances, etc. I love bringing people together, changing the world ~

PlasticTank · 6 years ago
I'm quite sure people do realize this hence the saying "It's not what you know but who you know"
chrisweekly · 6 years ago
In practice it's more like "It's not who you know, it's who knows you."
pengstrom · 6 years ago
I think the "know" is meant to be the symmetrical kind.
holografix · 6 years ago
If that’s what true no one would know anything and we’d still be wondering how to cook our food when forest fires didn’t naturally occur.
wallflower · 6 years ago
I like this definition of who is in your network that I came across years ago. Someone is in your network if they can recognize you if they see you in person (name tags do not count), know what you were last working on, and you had some contact with them in the last three months.

We may argue that having someone recognize you in person is not a hard requirement in this age.

jedberg · 6 years ago
My friends are so polyglot that I don't even know what my best friends are working on 1/2 the time. But I can tell you what they were last working on.
wallflower · 6 years ago
Yes, to clarify, I meant exactly what you said: the point-of-time snapshot of when you last heard from them
api · 6 years ago
At this point it should be obvious that network effects of every kind are the largest single determining factor in success, yet so many continue to believe in naive meritocracy.
airstrike · 6 years ago
One could argue there is merit in building a large, meaningful network
api · 6 years ago
Perhaps, but this is only one narrow kind of merit and it's responsible for a disproportionately large fraction of the outcome.

Networks also have gravitational type dynamics that accrue more network influence to existing influencers, so there's a huge path dependent effect where some nodes get rich network-wise by just being lucky or first.