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Posted by u/danr4 7 years ago
Ask HN: How to deal with internet addiction?
I find it hard to keep off from mindlessly browsing the web because I'm so dependent on it as a web developer.

It's become second nature to Ctrl+T and 'fa' for facebook, 'news' for HackerNews, 'red' for reddit, etc. that I barely notice I'm doing it.

I also regularly stay up another hour instead of going to sleep, "to catch up" on things that really don't matter or I can view tomorrow.

awb · 7 years ago
Environment plays a huge and under appreciated role in addiction. Try changing up your physical space: go to a coffee shop, a friend's house, the library, etc. and just observe if the same desires arise.

Also, it might help to know that your body is craving the immediate dopamine rush it gets from Facebook or news. The trick is to find something more rewarding and that usually comes from starting as small as possible. Try doing 1 pushup, reading 1 page of a book, taking a 5 min walk, etc. Sometimes these little pattern disruptions can be the spark that lights the fire.

It's not easy to change our behavior, but it is possible if you want to and it sounds like you do.

Here are some resources I found useful:

Wait But Why - https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrasti...

(visuals / cartoons)

Stoic Philosophy - https://youtube.com/watch?v=A0XxceO4qX0

(step by step process)

rando444 · 7 years ago
Speaking of environment.. in this case, computing environment should be considered as well.

If you're mindlessly switching to websites to browse them, it could be best to just block them on your work computer. If you really want to catch up with the news, use your phone or a different computer.

Separating the environments will help you keep your focus where you want it to be.

jolmg · 7 years ago
It might be worth mentioning that unblocking the sites should be setup to be difficult or bothersome. It probably wont help much if you just need to hit a shortcut key to unblock them or even just a command you can pull from history.

An idea to make it more difficult might be to setup a firewall on a separate device (that's linking your computer and your uplink) and maybe setup authentication to that device to require a yubikey or even just a flash drive with an key inside. That way you must do the physical act of pulling out that key if you want to unblock those sites.

Wherever you put that key, try to forbid yourself from reaching for it.

afarrell · 7 years ago
Some tools for doing this which you can install are SelfControl.app, Freedom.app, Forest, and ColdTurkey.

I use SelfControl and it is life-changing.

hairofadog · 7 years ago
I employ various hacks:

- I permanently deleted my Facebook account

- I block certain sites in /etc/hosts. My /etc/hosts file also blocks several hundred Facebook tracking urls, and I scatter the “tempting” sites randomly throughout these so that unblocking them requires more than muscle memory

- I change the passwords on the tempting sites to random strings but don't save them so the only way in is to do a password reset

- I use content blockers

- I excoriate myself in a journal entry each day (this hasn't worked yet, but I keep on doing it)

These things sorta slightly work in that they slow me down for a second and give me a chance to consider whether I really want to visit [website]. However, my lizard brain tends to adapt pretty quickly, and disabling the blocks gets incorporated into muscle memory as well.

So I think my solution will have to involve zen-like self-discipline as opposed to hacks. I keep telling myself I want to give it all up for good, to become a person who makes things instead of a person who consumes things, who reads books instead of surfing the internet. My solution will have to be simply deciding to change.

EasyTiger_ · 7 years ago
> I excoriate myself in a journal entry each day

Fail to see how this will help

hairofadog · 7 years ago
It doesn’t. I don’t recommend it.
osrec · 7 years ago
Would you mind sharing the list of sites you block? It would probably be a good starting point for others wanting to do something similar. Thanks!
hairofadog · 7 years ago
Ok, here it is: https://github.com/jmdugan/blocklists/blob/master/corporatio...

That's not me, but it's the list I use.

dnhz · 7 years ago
SelfControl is an app that comes with a decent starting blocklist that you can then add your own vices to. https://selfcontrolapp.com
superasn · 7 years ago
cold turkey was a rather good app for doing this on Windows (7) because it didn't allow you to reset your hosts file back until the timer was done (or at least made it really hard).

Rescuetime is also similar but I think it was more of a reporting app than blocking app.

Anyway my addiction was reddit (facebook, twitter never appealed to me in the first place) and my niravan was an openwrt router that my brother gifted me. It had a hosts blocker and i changed the password to unknown. Only way to get back was to do a hard reset and that meant doing umpteen setting up tasks like ppoe, adguard, hosts, etc which made it quite a friction. The only workaround was browsing on 4g and thankfully 4g here is very slow which made browsing ridiculous. Soon the addiction was cured.

secfirstmd · 7 years ago
Or a VPN would have been easier to get around the blocking? :)
calabin · 7 years ago
Could you share your block list?
hairofadog · 7 years ago
I’m on the go; will report back in a bit with the block list.
mbrock · 7 years ago
Try going on a "trip" away from the internet, while staying at home. I mean turning it off for a while, and making a little kind of ceremony about it. It's almost like meditation.

In fact I think temporary internet deprivation is a decent way to describe meditation to most people in this era. But it's not just a deprivation because you'll probably find it quite interesting.

Maybe you'll feel a bit restless, but then remember you're on a trip, it's like you're camping, you need to amuse yourself. Maybe have a bath. Tidy a bit. Maybe even clean your downloads folder. Light a candle. Sit on the floor for a while. See what happens.

Offline life is a pretty good place to enjoy some coziness. The internet usually isn't very cozy. And coziness is nice. It's not like without internet you'll be actually suffering. It's kinda nice.

And then it's "just" a matter of habits. Getting acquainted with the niceness of offline life seems like a necessary first step to start forming any kind of offline habit.

amelius · 7 years ago
> The internet usually isn't very cozy.

I'm curious in what ways the internet could be made more cozy (?)

franky47 · 7 years ago
Maybe by having less of it shoved in your face in the form of endless lists of vaguely related content engineered to keep your attention.

In a sea of pushed content, I actually find harder to find things I'm genuinely interested in. This may have turned a generation of curious minds into passive consumers.

For example, the paginated list on HN's home page is great: I've never needed to move to page 2, whereas if it has been an infinite list, I'd probably spend way too long there.

claudiawerner · 7 years ago
I feel as though cozy on the internet is a place where things are right and people generally don't argue, they discuss (if that), where you're around people who know and appreciate you, or otherwise engaging in a community sharing the same jokes and knowledge. Where the technology just works and you don't have to mess with Javascript settings, and when you've helped someone out with an issue on your favorite language's IRC channel. Where you watch a wholesome cookery/historical/science video on Youtube...

I expect it varies from person to person.

mbrock · 7 years ago
Yeah... I think it’s hard. Instant access to global data just isn’t cozy, somehow. Coziness usually involves seclusion of some sort. (Gil Fronsdal talked nicely about this in the second part of his currently ongoing course on concentration in meditation.) McLuhan wrote that ever since the telegraph we’ve hooked up our nervous system to the global system in a way that creates dread.

Deleted Comment

anyonecancode · 7 years ago
Seconding all the call outs about focusing on changing environment rather than relying on will power. In general, I think people have a tendency to expect to much on simply "willing" themselves into doing something, then feel guilty when it doesn't work, which erodes the willpower they stared out with -- recurse down to giving up.

The specific thing I'd add to the comments already here is four things that have worked for me. These are more about phones specifically than internet addiction in general, but I think they help with that larger topic too:

1. I bought a travel alarm clock. At night, I leave my phone downstairs. Having an alarm clock means I can no longer use the excuse "I just need the alarm function on my phone." This also helps in the morning as I literally can't just wake up and go online.

2. I removed Facebook from my phone. If I were on twitter, etc I'd remove those too. Communication is better from a keyboard anyway -- I'm on social media less frequently, and when I'm on I have an input device that actually supports writing full thoughts and sentences.

3. For web sites, I stay logged off on my phone. Similar to above, though less drastic than making those sites completely inaccessible on my phone. I still browse, say, Hacker News, but there's now often a forced wait between reading and replying.

4. I have a small phone (iPhone SE). It feels "cozy" (to one commentor's point about making the internet a more cozy place) since it actually fits nicely in my hand and pockets.

I guess I'll throw in another point too -- I experiment with different ways to change my environment. I think that's the real trick, more so than even the above -- I came to those through trial and error. Try changing something, and use the results of that to inform what you try next. Recurse to improvement. Good luck.

patrickxie · 7 years ago
what are some detailed changes that have worked for you?
vlunkr · 7 years ago
If you work in an office, try to sit somewhere that others can see your screen(s). Knowing that my boss or co-worker will see me constantly re-opening obviously distracting sites is a big deterrent. This works better than blocking sites or using productivity apps personally, but others swear by them. You just have to find what works for you.
lawlorino · 7 years ago
Along similar lines does anyone have ideas for transitioning away from consumption to production? I am coming from a similar place to the OP and after some reflection noticed my spare time is still dominated by media consumption (reading, podcasts etc.). Even though these are generally thought of as being more 'worthwhile' than scrolling through HN or reddit it still leaves me feeling pretty empty and unfulfilled.

Edit: realised I should have left some tips for others in this thread as it's something I have been working on recently myself. Two things to add that I've found help:

- Making the bedroom an electronics-free zone. Bought an analog alarm clock for waking up and leave my phone in another room to charge overnight. I also try and read for an hour before bed to cut down on screen time.

- Installed the app Quality Time which has the ability to limit app and phone usage for scheduled times or when desired.

tomjen3 · 7 years ago
I think reading is on a different enough level (depending on what you read) that it shouldn't be compared with idling on youtube. Most of the people who have really great ideas have read thousands of books.

As for podcasts, I listen to them when I am not in a position to be creative, e.g I am not going to write code when I am driving, or vaccuming the house, or shopping, etc.

cityzen · 7 years ago
My guess is that you're not busy enough or that you're not busy enough with rewarding work. Believe it or not, being happy and engaged is a lot of work. Write down a list of things you want to learn, try and/or do and just start doing them. Take a sailing class, get your motorcycle license, learn a new technology, build a workbench, start running. You don't have to have a hobby but the more things you try the more likely you are to find something you enjoy more than watching the world burn online. Building lego sets takes a ridiculous amount of time but the tactile response I get from putting blocks together is pretty fulfilling, more than sitting at a computer.

I am also a developer and I've found one thing that I've enjoyed recently is revisiting old projects where the client and I disagreed on the execution and building it out the way I wanted to. It's fun to test your assumptions and also gives you more perspective when you build things in the future.

If you use AWS, sign up to acloud.guru for a couple of months and get an AWS certification.

Bottom line is that change isn't easy. Just make a list, get dressed, leave the house and go do something. Eventually you'll see wasting time online as exactly that, wasting time.

DoreenMichele · 7 years ago
Years ago, studies showed that people who worked physically hard jobs spent many hours zoning out in front of the TV. They were too exhausted to do anything else.

I think pointless browsing online has largely taken the place of zoning out in front of the TV. I am bad about it when I'm sick and exhausted.

So, for starters, work on your general health so you aren't so tired all the time. Second, find more satisfying means to meet your needs.

Because browsing twitter and the like is about like eating a single potato chip at at time all day long as your only sustenance. You never really feel full and you wonder why you are growing fatter. If you occasionally have the equivalent of Christmas dinner where you are so stuffed you couldn't eat another bite, then you can stop mindlessly eating potato chips.

(as just one example:)

Social media is frequently a substitute for a real social life. Establishing meatier friendships may have you less invested in refreshing Twitter all day long. (No offense intended to my twitter buddies, some of whom are delightful and really enhance my life.)

MuffinFlavored · 7 years ago
> So, for starters, work on your general health so you aren't so tired all the time.

This is tough for me. Any tips on how to bypass the contradiction that is "I am too tired to work out, but I am tired because I don't work out?"

DoreenMichele · 7 years ago
Start with diet and hygiene. Improve your nutritional status and get nitpicky about cleanliness. Expect to initially have negative fallout before you start seeing gains. Anything that helps will have some kind of side effects.

Then start walking more. Park a little farther out from the office or store. Take one flight of stairs instead of the elevator. Get a step counter to help you track your progress so it isn't invisible to you.

xiphias2 · 7 years ago
Are you working overtime? In this case you are making a choice even if it's unconcious.

For me the biggest turning point was when I decided that I don't want to get promoted, I only want to make wealth by investing my money (even if it's less money). This frees up a lot of time and energy and simplifies life.