Using copper vessels to store water for drinking is somewhat common in parts of India. Seen it in Maharashtra.
Lead vessels were traditionally used (and may still be) to make certain dishes (like rasam, a watery lentil-based sour soup) in South India. No idea about any benefits or the reverse.
Update: Also, I've seen relatives of the previous generation to mine (in India), sometimes eating from silver plates. Not sure, but I think that may have been for some supposed health reason too (seeing sibling comment about silver reminded me of it).
Just as a PSA, lead in any quantity is toxic and particularly so for children. Copper, silver, and gold are in the same family of elements (group 11) and lead is in the carbon family. Very different characteristics.
edit: I should also note (since bringing up families of elements) that - supporting your anecdote - silver has known and studied antimicrobial properties (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16766878). Sadly it has been coopted by quacks, so there's also a lot of misinformation out there about it, too.
Thanks for the info. Yes, I've read about leaded petrol and its effects on the brain, more so in children. I even read somewhere a while ago (maybe on HN) that crime had come down somewhat over some decades (in the US?), which was partly attributed (in the article I read) to reduced use of leaded petrol (gasoline).
Interesting about the silver study, and agree about quacks.
No kidding about the silver being co-opted by quacks. If "colloidal silver" is taken in any decent quantities, it'll turn you a little blue. This is a libertarian guy who's attempted to run for a couple of different positions in the USA: http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38297000/jpg/_38297733_bl...
Varg Vikernes (author of Burzum) mentioned that European barbarians used to clean water by letting it stand in a copper vessel over night. The custom of throwing coins into sources or wells might come from this pagan tradition.
Cooking sour liquids in lead vessels makes them sweeter - but not in a way you want. The lead reacts with acetic acid to make lead acetate, "sugar of lead." The Romans used this method to sweeten sour wine. It's the oldest artificial sweetener, and the oldest dietary source of lead poisoning.
But lead has sometimes traditionally been used in cooking etc, because many lead salts are sweet :( That's why children chew on flakes of leaded paint. They're like candy :(
Just remember the authors are suggesting copper pots for water storage in developing countries, where people have more chance of dying from diarrhea than from prolonged exposure to copper.
"Copper content (177±16 ppb) in water stored in copper pots was well within the permissible limits of the World Health Organization. Copper holds promise as a point-of-use solution for microbial purification of drinking-water, especially in developing countries."
Safety standards aren't as black-and-white as the law. Some people will suffer way earlier than other people. Some people can tolerate some substances in way higher concentrations than the average person.
Copper intake needs to be balanced out by zinc intake since they are antagonists regarding resorption in the intestines (This article says 1 copper to 15 zinc: http://www.livestrong.com/article/336425-side-effects-of-tra...), so if you supplement a lot of zinc you might be fine using such a pot.
I suspect that outcome depends on water pH and temperature. One doesn't use copper pots for cooking acidic tomato sauce, for example. Acidic well water corrodes copper plumbing.
Copper pots are used for cooking because of the superior heat transfer, but you are not cooking with copper directly. They are "tinned", and this coating needs upkeep. You can't really cook with it directly because it's too reactive with acidic foods.
Interesting. Two studies with pretty much conflicting conclusions about safety of copper for potable water. I imagine that there is a level (range) of exposure that is in the sweet spot between 'kills harmful microbes' and 'kills/harms humans who drink the water'.
One study is abut storing water in copper pots and the other is about copper in drinking water. Does storing water in pots automatically mean that the copper goes into the water and if yes, how high is the concentration?
I store filtered drinking water in various plastic containers (often used juice bottles or the bottles that I boght store-bought water in). I wonder how health effects from the chemicals leeching in to my water from these plastic containers compare with the health effects from using copper containers, or perhaps ceramic/porcelain containers as those are supposed to be non-reactive.
I do that too, sometimes, particularly when on trips in rural / forest areas / resorts (refill the plastic bottle at the camp place or resort's restaurant with filtered water from a water purifier) but as a heuristic, to mitigate any possible effects of the plastic chemicals, I throw away the bottle after a week or two.
Silver is also known to have antibacterial/antimicrobial properties and is used both as a coating on handles, surfaces to prevent bacterial buildup and also in typical creams as an antibacterial option (however, I do believe a recent study showed it to be no better than a control when applied topically to burns, which is/was one of its primary uses).
Both copper and silver oxidize unpleasantly very quickly, though.
Silver sulfadiazine 1% cream is a highly effective antibiotic for preventing infections in deep burns.
In my experience, while while the wound is open, this was the only cream that had no skin reactions, and that made it far easier keep it on 24/7. The cream kept air out, greatly reduced pain. Eliminating infection allowed more rapid healing.
I don't know whether it's prescribed today, but it was the only cream that was effective at both reducing pain, and speeding healing.
Yup, it is still prescribed. They gave it to me after I had surgery on ingrown toenails on both sides of both big toes [1]. My Podiatrist used acid to burn away part of the nail matrix to prevent the outer quarter of each toenail from growing, reducing my toenail to half width. That prevented the problem from happening again [2]. Silvadine kept my toes from getting infected further and they healed rather painlessly. All in all good medicine.
[1] Genetics and apparently bad grooming habits for the win!
[2] A smashing success for ten years and counting. About 1/8 of each side grew back but it's not physically possible for me to get ingrown toenails unless I intentionally try to induce them.
"We had also reported the benefit of using a copper-based device, contrived by us, which was as effective as the pot but at a fraction of the cost." [12]
I love the thing, and I was drinking water out of it...
But one time I put alcohol in it... and I took a few sips from it and I almost immediately started feeling nauseous and weird... now I'm scared to use it, even for water.
That doesn't sound normal. Many alcohol stills use copper (wikipedia has this bit of information: "(a copper still) removes sulfur-based compounds from the alcohol that would make it unpleasant to drink")
The thing to worry about would be poisoning from copper toxicity (by misuse above, or by overuse of copper sulfate), or if made with beryllium, beryllium poisoning. If somehow 30mg/kg of copper were swallowed, it is potentially lethal. And if any food residue is left stuck to a piece of copper cookware, it should be thrown out immediately so it doesn't leech copper out.
If all he ever did was serve a cold moscow mule using his "copper water bottle", maybe the alcohol is the problem. But we only know he used it to drink water and alcohol. We don't know if it's lined, or if the lining was damaged, or if he used a hot or acidic liquid inside it at some point, or whether it has a corrosive residue.
Most current commercial mugs have a lining in them to prevent any leaching but still allows you to maintain the look and also the copper to help with temperature.
I can't find a quick reference but I read a while back that the drink, possibly the acid from the juice, reacted with the copper to add a flavour to the drink. With the lined mugs you don't get that specific taste.
The antibacterial properties of copper are well known, and were proven long ago. I think this is just someone looking for something to research and write a paper on.
The problem with copper is, it's toxic to more or less everything. No, it isn't as bad as lead, and humans tolerate it far better than most organisms, but I'd still rather not ingest it.
The best treatment for wood exposed to the elements is copper-based. In USA, however, the requirements for treatment facilities have grown more and more onerous, so that it's fairly impossible to find such wood anymore.
Copper pots have interesting properties. For a long time I had read (and scoffed) that eggs should be whipped in a copper pot for best results. But it turns out that when you do that, striking the side of the pot liberates electrons that bond with the albumin and make the protein stiffer.
As for the comment about silver: it does have some antimicrobial properties. I'm amazed the effect is noticeable at the macro level of eating utensils.
Readit News
Lead vessels were traditionally used (and may still be) to make certain dishes (like rasam, a watery lentil-based sour soup) in South India. No idea about any benefits or the reverse.
Update: Also, I've seen relatives of the previous generation to mine (in India), sometimes eating from silver plates. Not sure, but I think that may have been for some supposed health reason too (seeing sibling comment about silver reminded me of it).
edit: I should also note (since bringing up families of elements) that - supporting your anecdote - silver has known and studied antimicrobial properties (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16766878). Sadly it has been coopted by quacks, so there's also a lot of misinformation out there about it, too.
Interesting about the silver study, and agree about quacks.
By that, I'm guessing you mean in the periodic table. Been a while since I looked at that, should check it out again out of interest.
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But lead has sometimes traditionally been used in cooking etc, because many lead salts are sweet :( That's why children chew on flakes of leaded paint. They're like candy :(
Could be, I was going by what I've heard from elders. They could have been wrong.
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Don't.
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Both copper and silver oxidize unpleasantly very quickly, though.
In my experience, while while the wound is open, this was the only cream that had no skin reactions, and that made it far easier keep it on 24/7. The cream kept air out, greatly reduced pain. Eliminating infection allowed more rapid healing.
I don't know whether it's prescribed today, but it was the only cream that was effective at both reducing pain, and speeding healing.
[1] Genetics and apparently bad grooming habits for the win! [2] A smashing success for ten years and counting. About 1/8 of each side grew back but it's not physically possible for me to get ingrown toenails unless I intentionally try to induce them.
That's an old document, and I'd be interested if there's anything newer.
[12] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19230946/
(Device spoiler: Water in glass bottles with copper coils.)
https://i.imgur.com/3k2QBQI.jpg
I love the thing, and I was drinking water out of it...
But one time I put alcohol in it... and I took a few sips from it and I almost immediately started feeling nauseous and weird... now I'm scared to use it, even for water.
If all he ever did was serve a cold moscow mule using his "copper water bottle", maybe the alcohol is the problem. But we only know he used it to drink water and alcohol. We don't know if it's lined, or if the lining was damaged, or if he used a hot or acidic liquid inside it at some point, or whether it has a corrosive residue.
I can't find a quick reference but I read a while back that the drink, possibly the acid from the juice, reacted with the copper to add a flavour to the drink. With the lined mugs you don't get that specific taste.
Can you back up your claim?
There are a whole class of heavy metals that act as germicides.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimicrobial_properties_of_co...
As for the comment about silver: it does have some antimicrobial properties. I'm amazed the effect is noticeable at the macro level of eating utensils.
Have a source? I'm curious if one can "cook" an egg by submersing it in cold water through which a current is run.
[1] https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v308/n5960/abs/308667a...