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opsunit commented on Estimating square roots in your head   gregorygundersen.com/blog... · Posted by u/alexmolas
knaik94 · 3 years ago
I was brought up in a academically competitive environment, both in school and at home. I also have a natrual affinity towards mathematics and puzzles, but none of that makes a difference. This kind of arithmetic math inutition is nothing more than practice. You might be a little removed from the last time you had to do this level of math, so it's not fresh. I have tutored high school math for the last 10 years, so I built that intution over time checking students' work. But that only makes a difference in speed.

The reason the blog post and I made the assumption about perfect squares up to 12 is because it's a consequence of just knowing multiplication tables up to 12x12. The squares are 1, 4, 9, 16, 25, 36, 49, 64, 81, 100, 121, 144. The most basic approximation of a square root would be rounding to the nearest perfect square. The author didn't pick g=6 because they had some hidden intuition that 6 would be close, they picked 36 instead of 25 and knew that'll be 6. If I wanted to know the square root of 72, that's between 64 and 81. You'd know it's closer to 64 because the difference between 64 and 72 is smaller than 81 and 72. The actual numerical differences aren't that useful, you just need an understanding of what it's close to.

The reason why I assumed most people would know even powers of 2 is because of CS. It's just comes up so often, for example looking at algorithm complexity in relation to simplying with respect to log base 2 or binary representation of integers. The numbers also come up when thinking about primitives conversion such char to integer or how floating points work. As well as understanding amortized memory allocating algorithms, like how much bigger to make a dynamic array when it's filled. Even if you don't explicitly know why, numbers like 4, 16, 64, 256, 1024, 4096 are familiar, which are 2^2, 4^2, 8^2, 16^2, 32^2, 64^2. They are all also powers of 2 and you could write them as 2^2, 2^4, 2^6, 2^8, 2^10, and 2^12. I felt like it's a fair assumption on HN.

When I mentioned visualizing the graph, I just meant the non linear mapping between numbers and their squares. That is more raw intution, but it's not numerical in any way, it's knowing how the graph looks. And that comes from remembering the relationship between algorithm complexities, like log(x) vs sqrt(x) vs x vs x^2 vs 2^x.

An an educator, I strongly disagree with the idea of anyone being numerically "blind". If you struggle with rapidly finding that option, my only advice is brush up on some multiplication tables, and to give yourself time to speed up. Math anxiety is a problem for some, but that's a problem related to fear of failure and not cognitive ability.

opsunit · 3 years ago
I've often wondered how others get the multiplication tables to stick. When I was in school and tasked with learning and being tested on them I remembered them - just about - for long enough to be tested (primarily from a quick reminder on the way to school) and then they were gone.

My overall experience was that they were a very boring song with terrible lyrics. I can't ever say that any meaning clicked especially. The teacher called out the first part of the verse and I "sang" it internally and hopefully got it right. Having gotten through that it was gone by lunchtime in time for a different set of words to the same song next week.

I tried again about 30 years later as a adult and had much the same experience. You might as well have been asking me to remember items on a tray.

To me it's like this:

chicken x tree = rock

brick x kangaroo = Susan

boat x walnut = dinosaur

Now imagine you have to remember 288 of those (because you might be asked to produce either side of the equals sign) and somebody asking you to recall one arbitrarily.

How do you get your students to get them to stick?

opsunit commented on Estimating square roots in your head   gregorygundersen.com/blog... · Posted by u/alexmolas
knaik94 · 3 years ago
It's not worth feeling shocked over. When you are approaching fundamentals, it doesn't matter what method you use. The education system failed you. From my experience teaching kids with math anxiety, I learned it's impossible for people to accurately judge where their weakness at the core. But a pattern I found was that they were scared of doing basic things the "wrong" way. Short-sighted teachers worry about the "wrong" way because they feel like it will slow kids. The proper approach is to let kids use whatever way is fastest for them, and they'll learn other methods on their own as they continue practicing problems. Teachers who force a specific method for arithmetic make the problem worse because the kids end up more worried about doing it the right way rather than worrying about getting the answer right.

We live in an age with calculators, no one cares if you use your fingers to count. I have ADHD and feel limited by my working memory often, using fingers or repeating a number I want to remember over and over feels like having extra RAM. Even the way kids are taught to count is different depending on where you live. Studies show that kids who use fingers are stronger in quantitative reasoning. But growing up, I knew teachers who made fun of students for using fingers to count.

Imagining numbers as dots and counting or breaking a number into smaller numbers to add is not a "trick" it's an algorithm that is as valid as any other. It's counterproductive to associate the word "trick" with "wrong".

For a while I wrote my own system of dots to correspond with numbers, 1, 2, 3 I focus on the end points, 4 (I wrote it open) makes a square with four corners if you ignore the extensions, 5 I count when I change directions and the end points, 6 I imagine dots of a domino tile, 7 is basically two layers a four and then the end points of the character, 8 is similar to six but I count the two circle, and 9 is similar to six but I count circle and then both sides of the bottom curve (a 3x3) grid.

Even if my brain gets tired or distracted, I know I can still add by dots because it's so procedural and I don't need to "think", I just remember the starting digit and then count up as I follow the dots. I use saying the word out like as a form of RAM to this day. Repeating a word, to me, uses a completely different part of my mind, so I free up 100% of working memory and cognition. I have "forgotten" numbers while doing mental math and have reminded myself from hearing myself say it. Describing these techniques, I recognize I sound like a literal computer and almost not human, but it's struggle I learned to work past. It works, I can do relatively more advanced mental arithmetic compared to peer even.

For multiplication, I would recommend Anki. This kind of memorizing is what that entire system excels in.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2012/jun/26/count-f...

opsunit · 3 years ago
I do the dots thing too. I've never heard anybody else describe it and, to be honest, it's quite comforting to hear I'm not the only one. In fact I don't just imagine dots, I imagine die faces. This obviously gets problematic after six. I too feel limited by my working memory: it makes mental arithmetic of numbers with two digits very very hard without an external store like fingers.
opsunit commented on Estimating square roots in your head   gregorygundersen.com/blog... · Posted by u/alexmolas
opsunit · 3 years ago
> We start by finding a number that forms a perfect square that is close to 33. Here, let’s pick g=6, since 6^2=36.

As somebody who is numerically essentially blind I'm not only incredibly jealous and in awe of most of the comments in this thread but also utterly perplexed by the above. How does that even come to mind that 6 is a good starting value? Do you people just intuit this stuff or do you rapidly run through the options? If you're asking me to come up with something that when multiplied by itself is something near 33 then you're in for a long wait.

There's another comment in this thread:

>Everyone generally knows the perfect squares up to at least 12, and then for bigger values, you can use even powers of 2, which I assume people also know.

Do they? Jeez.

opsunit commented on The death of Rackspace’s ‘fanatical support’   sanantonioreport.org/the-... · Posted by u/alt227
skilled · 3 years ago
Rackspace had such a strong reputation during the 2000s, particularly for dedicated servers.

I wonder if anyone in their exec team ever brought up the fact that they got their ass kicked by DigitalOcean, and similar platforms when it comes to affordable and simple hosting.

opsunit · 3 years ago
They bought and then shuttered Slicehost in an attempt to occupy that market segment.
opsunit commented on Ask HN: What are some tools / libraries you built yourself?    · Posted by u/graderjs
opsunit · 5 years ago
https://runson.cloud and the associated Chrome extension
opsunit commented on Is that ship still stuck?   istheshipstillstuck.com/... · Posted by u/ColinWright
opsunit · 5 years ago
On the same topic, this is an excellent read: https://www.wired.com/2008/02/ff-seacowboys/
opsunit commented on Google Cloud Networking reporting issues   status.cloud.google.com/... · Posted by u/xur17
opsunit · 5 years ago
If you are unsure of the tenancy of any given site https://runson.cloud may be of some help.

Deleted Comment

opsunit commented on Why COBOL Isn't the Problem   lucidchart.com/techblog/2... · Posted by u/Addono
wtetzner · 5 years ago
> COBOL programs have history. They were changed in '77 and then the change was reverted in '79 and then again in '84. Nobody really remembers why.

I wonder how different it would be if they had a good source control system (and used it). Would you be able to look at the history and understand why the changes were made, or would you just get a bunch of commit messages like "made update" or "reverted earlier change"?

opsunit · 5 years ago
Having worked on the PL/1 and Assembler that formed the core accounting systems of a bank: yes.

Not only did I have source control I had flow diagrams of the entire system for all points in the chain. My code reviews had me doing line-by-line justifications. I wrote tests.

Just because the technology and practitioners are old it doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing.

Generally they invented whatever "you" are reinventing the first time around.

u/opsunit

KarmaCake day88September 9, 2013
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