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chaimgingold commented on Building SimCity: How to put the world in a machine   mitpress.mit.edu/97802625... · Posted by u/jarmitage
Hammershaft · 2 years ago
Have you ever read 'Sim Cities and Sim Crises'?

https://molleindustria.org/GamesForCities/

chaimgingold · 2 years ago
Yes, it's great!
chaimgingold commented on Building SimCity: How to put the world in a machine   mitpress.mit.edu/97802625... · Posted by u/jarmitage
NikolaNovak · 2 years ago
Thanks! If you don't mind some more detail

- how much does it go into people and personalities of the team and stakeholders, besides the technical design of the game?

- it sounds like first part of the book is historical and talks about various games, second focuses strictly on simcity?

- does it only cover first simcity? What about latter generations and competitors, or maxis follow ups like simearth etc?

Thx muchly!:)

chaimgingold · 2 years ago
I forgot to answer your first two questions:

> - how much does it go into people and personalities of the team and stakeholders, besides the technical design of the game?

A lot; it all goes together.

> - it sounds like first part of the book is historical and talks about various games, second focuses strictly on simcity?

Yes. And not just games, but computer history and simulation practices (like system dynamics, cellular automata, artificial life) that influenced SimCity and shaped its reception.

chaimgingold commented on Building SimCity: How to put the world in a machine   mitpress.mit.edu/97802625... · Posted by u/jarmitage
wigster · 2 years ago
just want to say thanks for spore - my son's favourite for a long time.
chaimgingold · 2 years ago
Thanks for sharing this!
chaimgingold commented on Building SimCity: How to put the world in a machine   mitpress.mit.edu/97802625... · Posted by u/jarmitage
KeplerBoy · 2 years ago
What about climate/weather models?

Aren't those simulations run on clusters of similar size (or atleast within an order of magnitude) and an agreeably responsible use of computational resources?

chaimgingold · 2 years ago
Feels like there should be an xkcd about this. I asked Claude to write one, but it wasn't very funny. Actually, Claude agrees with you that the energy used for training AIs is mere pocket change compared to climate simulations. (Can I trust Claude? Seems far from disinterested.)
chaimgingold commented on Building SimCity: How to put the world in a machine   mitpress.mit.edu/97802625... · Posted by u/jarmitage
__rito__ · 2 years ago
You do so much cool stuff in life. Much Kudos to you. And you have taken an unusual career path in your life for a smart person.

Are you content with the uncertainty, and not having a conventional, safe job?

chaimgingold · 2 years ago
Thank you. Hmm, a big existential question and I haven't had any coffee yet. There is certainly anxiety in the uncertainty. (Was spending over ten years researching and writing this book––intermixed with other things--a good use of time?) But I think I'd be unhappy with something safe. It's an ongoing surprise to me that my career continues to work, but I do occasionally wonder if this is a wise course. My parallel counterfactual selves are doing really different things, but I think I like the real one more. (Though they probably feel the same way.)
chaimgingold commented on Building SimCity: How to put the world in a machine   mitpress.mit.edu/97802625... · Posted by u/jarmitage
genocidicbunny · 2 years ago
Will the interview be available on any other platforms, after the fact? I'd love to watch the interview, but I am not sure I'll be able to catch it live, and Twitch is not my favourite platform for watching livestream recordings.
chaimgingold · 2 years ago
Should be! ROMchip posts recordings on their YouTube channel afterwards: https://www.youtube.com/@ROMchipJournal
chaimgingold commented on Building SimCity: How to put the world in a machine   mitpress.mit.edu/97802625... · Posted by u/jarmitage
trilinearnz · 2 years ago
Is this about the original Sim City, Sim City 2000, or does it cover all of them in a general way?
chaimgingold · 2 years ago
Focus is the original SimCity, but many Maxis Sim- games up to EA acquisition are touched upon, especially the long saga of what became The Sims.
chaimgingold commented on Building SimCity: How to put the world in a machine   mitpress.mit.edu/97802625... · Posted by u/jarmitage
faizshah · 2 years ago
Can anyone recommend any other books like this where it is both a history/ethnography and covers the actual technical details/code?
chaimgingold · 2 years ago
I'd be very interested to hear of other books and articles like this, too.

Edwin Hutchins's Cognition in the Wild is one of my favorite books. It's very technical and ethnographic, but less historical. It doesn't deal with code, but that's because it's about the nitty gritty of navigation on a Navy ship (pre digital computing), and (here's the historical aspect) it compares this to some traditional Polyponesian navigational practices.

The closest thing off the top of my head are titles in MIT Press's Platform Studies series, like Racing the Beam, about the Atari 2600, which is historical and technical. https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262539760/racing-the-beam/

Maybe Casey O'Donnell's Developer's Dilemma? https://direct.mit.edu/books/monograph/4469/Developer-s-Dile...

If you make a Venn diagram with history, ethnography, technical details, and code as different circles, the central intersection may not be huge, but I think there may be a lot more if you remove some of the constraints. But I want to see more work at this intersection, and I hope more people do it.

chaimgingold commented on Building SimCity: How to put the world in a machine   mitpress.mit.edu/97802625... · Posted by u/jarmitage
kaveh_h · 2 years ago
Do you think people can learn something from simulation games that’s inherently hard to learn from mere language or mathematics?

Is it possible to create good simulation games of substantial global events and the subsequent possible outcomes. Some examples would be a pandemic like Covid and how it shaped societies differently based on preconditions and policies OR a discovery of nuclear fission that sparked building nuclear weapon (I.e the manhattan project) and fueled the cold war OR the realization and threat of man made global warming and the global reaction and policy making and many possible outcomes.

And if not why are they not feasible for games. Is there something that makes these types of events and their outcome hard to simulate?

chaimgingold · 2 years ago
I think yes, and so did Vannevar Bush (OK, not the game part). The first two chapters of Building SimCity are dedicated to non-computer simulations for this reason. Vannevar Bush and his analog instruments, like the differential analyzer, are the subject of chapter 2. Bush (and others) argued that good tangible models were excellent complements to, and sometimes superior to, abstract symbolic representations. For this reason he and his colleagues grieved the transition to digital computing.

For example, he writes in Pieces of the Action (p. 262) of "an example of how easy it is to teach fundamental calculus," about a mechanic with a high school education who learned calculus by working on the differential analyzer. "It was very interesting to discuss this subject with him because he had learned the calculus in mechanical terms ‐ a strange approach, and yet he understood it. That is, he did not understand it in any formal sense, but he understood the fundamentals; he had it under his skin."

I think this is fascinating stuff, and chapter 2 goes deep into the subject. Chapter 1 is about Doreen Gehry Nelson and city simulations made by school kids--it's all about games, simulation, tangibility, and learning.

chaimgingold commented on Building SimCity: How to put the world in a machine   mitpress.mit.edu/97802625... · Posted by u/jarmitage
LoganDark · 2 years ago
Your lunch is 8 months old?
chaimgingold · 2 years ago
LOL. This must be the reason the Chicago Manual of Style indicates hyphens here. And it must also be the reason an MIT Press copyeditor reviewed the whole manuscript very carefully. (Which then triggered some legalistic arguments from me citing chapter and verse of said stye manual.)

u/chaimgingold

KarmaCake day377February 4, 2015View Original