ClarityJones (u/ClarityJones)

ClarityJones commented on Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players bbc.com/news/articles/cz6... · Posted by u/vegasbrianc

prodigycorp · 2 months ago

imo that doesn't make sense. All the online betting platforms will cut off the sharps. If you are net profitable and you make too much money from them, you will get banned.

ClarityJones · 2 months ago

Yeah, that would limit the scale if they were betting against the platforms.

However, if you assume they were feeding the information to the platforms...

ClarityJones commented on Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players bbc.com/news/articles/cz6... · Posted by u/vegasbrianc

Aurornis · 2 months ago

> Now, people play poker, and cheat, and they want the government to police their poker games and make sure they're fair.

No, if you personally run a poker game in your house and cheat your friends the government doesn’t care. The FBI isn’t going to be interested.

If you join the mafia and run an organized crime ring that operates poker games as a business which systematically defrauds people for large amounts of money and funnels the proceeds to organized crime through money laundering operations, the FBI will be interested.

If you look at this story and only see “some people cheated at a poker game” you’re missing the real story. This was a full on organized crime business operation

ClarityJones · 2 months ago

Okay, a lot of people cheated at a lot of poker games? I feel like we're being redundant here.

So, their cheating was organized and systematic? Yeah, you can't really cheat consistently without having a scheme.

Did anyone really think the mafia were running fair backroom poker games?

ClarityJones commented on Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players bbc.com/news/articles/cz6... · Posted by u/vegasbrianc

Aurornis · 2 months ago

> I don't want the government policing what is and isn't fair in a poker / NBA / etc game.

Operating a business that defrauds people is the domain of government enforcement.

I think you’re trying to reduce this to some sort of small scale friendly poker game between friends. It was not. It was an organized crime business operation that was systematically committing fraud.

Fraud is illegal and within scope of government enforcement.

ClarityJones · 2 months ago

The raison d'etre for the offense of fraud is to protect commerce.

The state / society needs to enforce a basic level of trust for Business A to buy widgets from Business B, and for Customer C to be employed, etc.

Betting on sports / poker / etc. is not part of that. Nobody is creating anything of value when you spin the roulette wheel. At best, the house wins and most players lose... and that is a harm to society. At worst, the house cheats or some subset of players cheat, and most players lose... and that too is a harm to society. (Edit: At worse worst, it leads to violence, extortion, etc...)

Gambling does not deserve the legitimacy of being policed.

ClarityJones commented on Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players bbc.com/news/articles/cz6... · Posted by u/vegasbrianc

bbstats · 2 months ago

"previously people could cheat, now they can't" ?? how is that bad.

ClarityJones · 2 months ago

That's not the part that's bad. I don't care whether they cheat or not. I don't want the government policing what is and isn't fair in a poker / NBA / etc game.

I think arresting people for cheating legitimizes backroom / mafia gambling. All the other rings (and those left from this one) can say "Look, those other guys got arrested. The law protects you. We don't want that to happen to us. Our game is definitely fair." Of course, they too are cheating.

The only reason the FBI cares here is probably because one of the victims had pull. If you or I get cheated, the FBI won't care about that.

ClarityJones commented on Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players bbc.com/news/articles/cz6... · Posted by u/vegasbrianc

ClarityJones · 2 months ago

This is silly.

People used to play poker, and cheat, and the whole thing was illegal.

Now, people play poker, and cheat, and they want the government to police their poker games and make sure they're fair.

Complete waste of resources.

ClarityJones commented on Trump pardons convicted Binance founder wsj.com/finance/currencie... · Posted by u/cowboyscott

cthalupa · 2 months ago

I'm not sure you understand the point. It isn't that CZ himself was specifically putting forth the effort to launder money. It isn't that he was specifically doing things to try and make it easier. The point is that he had a legal duty to actively attempt to prevent money laundering. Binance was legally required to do this to operate in the US, and did not. The court case produced messages from the Chief Compliance Officer pointing out a myriad of ways in which they were not complying with various laws of this nature and they were ignored.

The BSA is not a technicality and trying to reframe it as one is wild. It is to make sure that people that have a financial incentive to turn a blind eye to money laundering don't turn a blind eye to it. You don't need to be directly involved in the money laundering to be incentivized to let it happen.

ClarityJones · 2 months ago

The guy was punished with a 4-month jail sentence. It's reasonable to assume his crime was of the sort that would result in a 3-6 month sentence... generally misdemeanors.

It's certainly in a different category than speeding or jaywalking, but it's a lot closer to that than to the 150 years that Bernie Madoff got.

ClarityJones commented on Trump pardons convicted Binance founder wsj.com/finance/currencie... · Posted by u/cowboyscott

mullingitover · 2 months ago

> and not any other criminal activity

He made a lot of money from the other criminal activity. That's what money laundering is: just because you're not directly trafficking children, for example, doesn't mean you have clean hands when you make significant profits from the people who are.

ClarityJones · 2 months ago

Except, correct me if this is wrong, but he wasn't even convicted of money laundering, let alone the underlying crimes you suggest he was launder the proceeds of. It was simply for failing to register / setup an appropriate AML system. Whether any ML occurred, by whom, and in relation to what... are outstanding questions. If he had done all that and all they got him on was a 4-month technicality, that tends to suggest he was probably innocent (or the investigation was inept).

ClarityJones commented on U.S. details gambling cases involving pro athletes and mafia families nytimes.com/live/2025/10/... · Posted by u/ilamont

ndriscoll · 2 months ago

While it makes perfect sense to me that cheating (including steroid use) or throwing a game in sports should be 100% legal (modulo contractual agreements with a league), if I'm reading correctly, the issue is that the people involved also had some connection to the gambling, which seems more fraud-adjacent. The linked article is basically impossible to follow though so unclear if that's a correct interpretation.

ClarityJones · 2 months ago

You're right that there has to be a connection now, and this uncertainty is part of the problem. If the connection is a crime, then what about that connection hurts someone? How can the government maintain the rule of law in this type of market? If a player bets me that he won't play more than 10 minutes, what does fraud even mean? Sure, he has every right to walk off the court when he's tired of playing. Even if he double-pinky promises to play for as long as he can, why endure the charade?

These are not arms-length transactions that contribute to the production of valuable goods and services. All it does is invite moral hazards into existing markets.

The real moral qualm that the public generally has is with the cheating / steroids / etc., which isn't a crime. However, those who want to deal in gambling are riding on that moral outrage to prosecute people for gambling in a way that other gamblers didn't like.

Fundamentally, gambling is a den of liars and cheats. If it's going to be legal, then make it legal... including the fraud. Let people know that, sure you're allowed to gamble on poker, and the other guy is also allowed to cheat. The government should not waste resources guaranteeing that everyone's gambling is free of cheating nor spend time investigating whether Player 1 was really injured when he took a knee in the 4th quarter, or if Player 2 took a peek at Player 3's cards. The nation isn't a casino. That type of law enforcement does not provide a valuable contribution to society.