Poll: Where are you currently living?

kutakbash · 12 years ago

>Southern North America (eg. Mexico)

>Northern part of South America

>Souther part of South America

Looks needlessly fragmented and imprecise. What is 'Southern part of South America'? Cono Sur? Then Brazilians from Minas Gerais and Porto Alegre are in different groups? Was that the intention? Why 'Southern North America' and not Central America? Where does Caribbean belong? Middle Asia (say, Kazakhstan)? Is Spain Western Europe or Southern Europe? Is Czech Republic Eastern Europe or Western Europe (since you don't offer 'Central Europe' as an option and some Czechs may be unhappy with identifying as Eastern Europeans)? Is Estonia in Eastern Europe? It damn well is in Eastern Europe, but some Estonians identify Estonia as Scandinavian.

Next time you guys should use some well established scheme such as this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_geoscheme and just link to it in the post so no one is confused.

V-2 · 12 years ago

"Is Czech Republic Eastern Europe or Western Europe (since you don't offer 'Central Europe' as an option and some Czechs may be unhappy with identifying as Eastern Europeans)?"

Same with Poland. The Western-Eastern distinction is an artifact of the Cold War, but it doesn't correspond well with the civilizational affiliations and historical experience of Central European nations.

Eg. Poland has rich traditions of democracy and civil freedoms - its Golden Liberty, and later, the first constitution in Europe - while Eastern Europe was typically autocratic.

Then there's being mostly catholic (and not orthodox), then there's the use of Latin alphabet (whereas Eastern Europe tends to use cyrillic), etc.

kutakbash · 12 years ago

I'd say this whole regional distinctions thing is utterly mythologized and politically motivated. It's more like branding than anything tangible. No one wants to be associated with the less well off parts of the world and some want to add flair of objectivity to their purely political claims. Like current Russian and Kazakhstani govts pushing all things 'Euroasian', or German strategists inventing Mitteleuropa back then.

kyro · 12 years ago

I was shocked as well when I read that this survey was part of a randomized double-blind study sponsored by the NIH.

kutakbash · 12 years ago

Ha ha good one. Being pedantic is a curse, yes.

Strom · 12 years ago

I'm from Estonia and I had to vote 'Other'. I don't identify myself as an eastern european nor as a scandinavian. I'm from northern europe, as also classified by your linked UN geoscheme. [1] There is no northern europe poll option however.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_geoscheme

sampo · 12 years ago

I wonder if mostly anyone from "cold war Eastern Europe" countries identify as an Eastern European any more?

Estonians and other Baltic states don't, Poland doesn't. Czech Republic probably doesn't. What about Slovenia, or Croatia, or Macedonia? Or Hungary?

Also maybe Russians identify as Russians and not Eastern Europeans.

pmelendez · 12 years ago

Normally it is considered that Venezuela is the northern country of South America, so for me that fragmentation is correct. I just will add Central America to include the Caribbean and countries below Mexico.

seldo · 12 years ago

I mean, just calling it "central america" would have helped.

zxcvbnmkj · 12 years ago

Central America is everything from Guatemala to Panama and doesn't include Mexico.

cstrat · 12 years ago

Thats what I thought too.

lucasnemeth · 12 years ago

Agree. Southern part of South America is very confusing, how south is southern? Is São Paulo south enough? Should I live in Patagonia to mark that?

Systemic33 · 12 years ago

I wasn't aware of that scheme, I'll remember it for another time, it would pollute the data too much to change it all now.

kutakbash · 12 years ago

I guess it would also ruin compatibility with previous polls. Sigh.

erid · 12 years ago

So, where would Costa Rica belong, I'm confused.

Deleted Comment

irsouza · 12 years ago

Yeah, I felt confused, I live in southern Brazil. Is it south enough for the continent?

danmaz74 · 12 years ago

You can't have a "western europe excl UK" and then a "southern europe". Italy and Spain are for sure in both categories.

fbnt · 12 years ago

Ditto. I clicked them both. - Cheers from Italy.

cliveowen · 12 years ago

I actually checked Wikipedia and went for South Europe, that's what it says.

danmaz74 · 12 years ago

Ciao - Italy here too ;)

personlurking · 12 years ago

Don't forget Portugal! Lisbon checking in

danmaz74 · 12 years ago

Well of course - it's difficult to get more western Europe than Portugal ;)

StavrosK · 12 years ago

Greece is in Western Europe, even though it's pretty much the southeasternmost part:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Europe

danmaz74 · 12 years ago

Yes, because the division has historically been more political than geographical.

p4bl0 · 12 years ago

France too, depending on which part. If you live in Lille you may not feel like it, but if you live in Marseille you totally want to vote Southern Europe.

sjwright · 12 years ago

Population (in millions):

  USA	316.8
  Canada: 35.1
  Southern North America: 176.6
  Northern part of South America: ?
  Southern part of South America: ?
  ...South America: 387.4
  UK: 62.2
  Scandinavia: 25.7
  Western Europe (excl. UK): 278.7
  Eastern Europe: 176.7
  Southern Europe / Mediterranean Europe: 153.5
  Russia: 142.2
  Northern Africa: ?
  Southern Africa: ?
  ...Africa: 1032.5
  Middle East: 370.9
  India: 1210.2
  China: 1353.8
  South East Asia: 610.0
  Australia and New Zealand: 35.6
  Japan: 126.6
  South Korea: 50.2
  Other: ?

sjwright · 12 years ago

Hacker News voters# per million:

                   pop/mil votes density
  --------------------------------------
  Canada              35.1   284    8.09
  Australia/NZ        35.6*  283    7.95
  Scandinavia         25.7   151    5.88
  USA                316.8  1817    5.74
  UK                  62.2   190    3.05
  Western Europe     278.7   363    1.30
  Eastern Europe     176.7   155    0.88
  Southern Europe    153.5    65    0.42
  Japan              126.6    34    0.27
  South America      387.4    71^   0.18
  Russia             142.2    26    0.18
  South East Asia    610.0   110    0.18
  India             1210.2   196    0.16
  Southern North Am  176.6    25    0.14
  South Korea         50.2     7    0.14
  Middle East        370.9    40    0.11
  China             1353.8    61    0.05
  Africa            1032.5    26^   0.03

# As at time of posting

* Australia/NZ population is treated as Oceania, as the original survey implied Australasia.

^ Combined votes for northern and southern regions.

flexie · 12 years ago

Not surprisingly it follows English language spread quite closely. The top 5 consists of English speaking countries and Scandinavia (where everybody speaks English as a second language). If the Netherlands had been singled out from Western Europe I would expect to see the density high there as well.

sjwright · 12 years ago

Updated results[0]#

                  pop/mil   votes  density
  ----------------------------------------
  Australia/NZ       27.6*    351     12.7
  Canada             35.1     385     11.0
  Scanda-Nordic      26.2     279     10.6
  UK                 63.8     497      7.8
  USA               316.8    2445      7.7
  Europe Western    191.5     719      3.8
  Europe Eastern    161.0     254      1.6
  Europe Southern   151.2     138      0.9
  Russia            143.5      49      0.3
  Japan             127.2      42      0.3
  South America     402.8     133^     0.3
  South Korea        50.2      14      0.3
  India            1235.3     288      0.2
  South East Asia   602.4     129      0.2
  Southern North Am 203.0      34      0.2
  Other             320.9      49      0.2
  Middle East       515.7      64      0.1
  China            1391.6      81      0.1
  Africa           1085.4      57^     0.1

# As at time of posting

* Australia/NZ population is NOT treated as Oceania, because on reflection I don't think Oceanic voters would have picked the question as posed. Oceania has been rolled into 'other'.

^ Combined votes for northern and southern regions.

[0] Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmufGoZ--XWedHF...

AYBABTME · 12 years ago

I wonder if this high density of Canadian is a new thing. If so, it would correlate will recent feeling that HN's quality has been dropping. And we all know that correlation is causality.

elyobo · 12 years ago

I'm not sure where your numbers come from, but they're overestimating Australia + NZ by around a quarter.

From Wikipedia, NZ ~4.7 million, AU ~23.2 million, total ~28 million.

sjwright · 12 years ago

I used Oceania, because the poll was implied to also mean "Australasia", which is a geographically vague term, but is commonly known to be very inclusive.

zizee · 12 years ago

Population of Australia 22.68 million Population of New Zealand 4.433 million

Where did the extra 8.5 million come from?

wattson12 · 12 years ago

The poll says Australasia, which includes Papua New Guinea (pop 7.4M), the rest would be from the smaller island nations I guess

danmaz74 · 12 years ago

I'm curious, which Countries did you consider for Western Europe, and Which for Southern/Mediterranean Europe?

sjwright · 12 years ago

I tried to follow Wikipedia as closely as possible, but stupidly didn't keep my workings.

My starting point was the full list for Europe. From there I split off UK, then split off Scandanavia, then split off Southern Europe, then worked out a plausible split for the remaining western and eastern. For example, Czech fell into my eastern pile, but could have easily gone the other way...

I didn't even bother trying to bisect Africa or South America, as I couldn't find any evidence for such canonical bisections.

Political geography is tedious.

p4bl0 · 12 years ago

I also didn't know. I first voted for "Western Europe". And then I saw the "Southern/Mediterranean Europe" possibility and felt that it fits better so I voted for that one too.

shubhamjain · 12 years ago

I am from Jaipur, India. Many I times I am detestful of the fact that I don't live in big cities like Mumbai or Bangalore. I don't hear of any programming meetups that happen here, neither there are any conferences, nor any startup that has bubbled up. The first thing that I want to do after my graduation is to move in to a big city because socializing with smart people is the most recurring advice I have heard for ambitious freshers.

akbar501 · 12 years ago

Moving is a good idea.

I'm from the US, but I spent a substantial amount of time in India when I started by first company. Initially, we were outside of Bangalore (not by much), but enough that the company and I were disconnected from the city.

Around 2004 we moved the company to Bangalore, and I moved with the company.

It was the best move ever.

The cost of living is higher, it's over populated, traffic sucks, and so on in terms of problems. But it's where all of the action is and the people are.

Fast forward to 2012 and I was living 50 minutes outside of San Francisco (over the 80) and Silicon Valley (down the 680). I moved to into the valley to be in the action. Again, best move ever.

In general, go to where the action is. Your thinking on this is sound. There are smart people in Jaipur, but nothing like what you'll find in Mumbai or Bangalore.

Best of luck to you.

sidi · 12 years ago

I am curious, what were the barriers (apart from financial) like when you moved to San Francisco? This is assuming you moved your startup over to SF. I ask this since I am starting up in India, and increasingly thinking to relocate to Silicon Valley.

munimkazia · 12 years ago

Mumbai is the place to be for a lot of people, but maybe not for core tech and programmers. We don't have a very strong programming community here (though we are trying to build one). We don't have as many tech events and communities as Bangalore. Mumbai has quite a few startups, but again, there are far more in Bangalore. And the worst thing is Mumbai is quite a bit more expensive to live. The rents are very high, probably double of the Bangalore rates. And you don't really get higher salaries to balance this out.

This has been my experience with Mumbai. You may be happy here, depending on what job you get here, and what circle of geeks and friends you find around here. In general, it is a much more happening place than Bangalore.

Edit: Obviously, both of these options are far better than Jaipur. Bangalore, Mumbai and Delhi are the places to be for working in tech. You can probably add Pune, Chennai and maybe Hyderabad to that list, but that's it.

crucialfelix · 12 years ago

I'm going to be in Mumbai in a few weeks, then going through to Bangalore. I'd like to try to hook up with some people, go to some events and just check things out a bit.

So any tips for social events re tech/startup stuff in Mumbai would be much appreciated.

After that I go on a proper vacation.

jnaut · 12 years ago

I agree location is important.

I asked the same question on HN 1450 days ago, see the responses I got: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=916622

Jaipur may not be the best place to start at this point in time but it definitely seem to have some future promises to offer.

I would like to bring to your notice that Entrepreneurship/Startup radar has picked up in Jaipur lately. Several events, groups have come up:

Some examples are:

groups:

startup jaipur: https://www.facebook.com/groups/jaipurtechies/

ceo jaipur: https://www.facebook.com/CeoJaipur

startup saturday jaipur: https://www.facebook.com/groups/ssjaipur/

events:

Startup saturday event is happening every month

Startup Jaipur also meets physically , a little infrequently though, since December last year. And I plan to do hackthons and stuff under this (I am one of the founding members and an admin on FB), a little short on bandwidth though, would like to take the lead and try a hand?

CEO Jaipur the first co-working space for/by/of the entrepreneurs started some time back. They have space to host other events too.

Then there were some events from TIE like 'TIE mashup' that recently happened.

more events:

Bringing startup weekend to Jaipur is in process.

Overall, it's heating up but agreeably not as mature or vibrant as Bangalore, Chennai, Hyderabad or Pune. ( Lived and experienced the first three cities and their meetups personally.)

I am from Jaipur too and I run a startup ( http://startuplabs.io/ ) here.

Let me know if you would like to meetup and hangout.

shubhamjain · 12 years ago

Sure. Would love to meet you, throw me a mail at shubham.jain.1@gmail.com.

vishalkrv · 12 years ago

Yes, Bangalore has lot of social and tech meetups where you can meet the like minded people.

pranavrc · 12 years ago

Histogram of current standings:

http://quickhist.onloop.net/USA=601,Canada=104,Southern%20No...

cstrat · 12 years ago

It would be neat if HN automatically provided something like this embedded at the top.

madeofpalk · 12 years ago

Like this? http://hnlike.com/hncharts/chart/?id=6582647

filam · 12 years ago

I only mention it because I learned the difference yesterday, but that is a bar graph, not a histogram.

msohcw · 12 years ago

If anyone's curious (like I was), a histogram has a continuous variable for it's x-axis, the bars on a histogram correspond to bins of the continuous variable. E.g. 1-10, 11-20, 21-30. In a bar graph, the x-axis is usually a discontinuous variable, typically types, with no specifically meaningful sort order, e.g. in this case, countries. Also, by convention, histograms have no spaces between bars to represent the continuity while bar graphs do to represent the discontinuity. Correct me if I'm wrong.

dspeyer · 12 years ago

Given how many more votes US has than anything else, I think breaking it down would be warranted.

I'm thinking:

* San Fransisco Bay area * Seattle/Redmond area * Other west coast * Boston/Cambridge * New York * Other east coast * Chicago * Ann Arbor * Austin * Other noncoastal

ximeng · 12 years ago

Added a new poll for you - if you're interested, go there to vote or comment if you want the categories adjusted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6583918

speeder · 12 years ago

Not putting Brazil there is kinda silly, specially when it is a country that spans so much of South America that I bet some brazillians will put north south america while others will put south south america... (Also important: brazil vs rest of south america is more relevant, considering brazil went with a fairly unique culture, ie: not hispaniard, also Argentina in comparison to the rest of South America has a very high amount of caucasians, making it also quite unique compared to the rest, although, ie: having a european culture mixed with spain culture, instead of the usual spain mixed with native america)