I had a SailfishOS phone for four years; an Xperia XA2+. The operating system was wonderful, and being able to run Android apps when there was no alternative was a good way of filling in the gaps in the Jolla store.
However, as I've got older I find large phones more and more unwieldy, and I couldn't find a small enough SailfishOS phone to switch to. I'm now running LineageOS on a Jelly Star. The form factor is perfect for me.
Would I return to SailfishOS? Absolutely. But there'd need to be a small phone in the line up for me to migrate to.
I had a Nokia N9 or was it N7 that ran the predecessor OS to Sailfish. It was so good back then. The UX left android and iOS in dust. Both ended up adopting a lot of patterns from it later. Loved that phone.
Which version of LOS do you run exactly? Did you compile it yourself, or did you pick a pre-made version? One from XDA?
I ask, because the device is not officially supported by LineageOS, but if it works well with a different approach it would be an interesting option for me as well.
I had no idea that you could run Lineage on the Jelly Star! That sounds phenomenal. My dream phone is a Star running Graphene. But short of that, Lineage would be great.
Not an author, but I've been using Jelly Star with a stock Android for 2 years.
Actually, typing this comment right now with this phone.
1. Keyboard: MessagEase or ThumbKey + Jelly Star is a perfect match.
2. Bitwarden passkeys + Firefox doesn't work. As I've researched, same with LineageOS. Didn't check Chrome, though.
3. All apps work without issues. Banking, Google Wallet, taxi, etc. It's a regular Android.
4. Battery isn't great, but charges fast and enough to carry on through the most of the day.
5. It's perfect for running or other outdoor activities.
6. 4G only, I sometimes also use it as an external modem for the laptop, and definitely would appreciate 5G.
7. Android 13 and no updates:/
All in all, I'm happy, but if I could foresee it advance, then I'd go with Jelly Max instead, because freshier Android version, Bitwarden + Firefox passkeys and 5G support.
Unfortunately, Jelly Max a bit bigger than Jelly Star, but still much smaller than other regular smartphones.
Did not know about Lineage either, now I'm interested too.
For the last 2 years I've been using a similar device from Unihertz's competitor, Cubot. Namely the King Kong Mini 3. No issues, very solid. Given how tiny it is, it gets lots of attention and marks me out as an eccentric (no objections). But stock Android, of course.
I used Sailfish OS and so did several of my family members for many years. The "vanilla" Linux OS aspect (besides using rpm) makes it trivial to set up things like dnsmasq-adblocking, firewall rules, etc.
Unfortunately, the Sailfish UI itself feels "different for the sake of different" and not because it's functionally more useful. I think the UI is pretty ugly and difficult to navigate. Anyone who "loved" Win8 tiles and/or Windows Mobile flat monochrome UI always praises the SailfishOS UI but outside of that small group I don't think the UI is that functional. It's definitely eschewed it's MeeGo / Nokia N9 UI heritage.
What always surprised me about SFOS is despite running on some pretty decent hardware, the UI always felt sluggish, especially given it's kind of reversed-big-text UI paradigm which shouldn't take much work to render.
I'm glad there's an alternative, but sad it's hasn't seen a reasonable set of UI improvements despite its age.
I still use Sailfish daily. I have no problem with the UI, but their Firefox is seriously outdated and predictive text for the keyboard is no longer available.
They will be able to do banking at least once the legislators tear down the walled gardens in a sensible way. Are the security benefits from the Appstore/Playstore real or security theatre?
I'm pretty sure that, if there are security benefits, they have been artificially tied to the use of the company's distribution method, that coincidentally really needs to be sending usage statistics, monitoring, etc. Surely there exist no conflicts of interest to be found.
fifteen years ago I use to do mobile pentests for banks and when we could not find anything significant for the reports we could’ve always count on “lack of rooting detection” and pin the risk on some vague mobile banking malware threat pushed by marketing. I am sorry I contributed to this nonsense.
I just switched to a Fairphone 5 with e/OS, which is a de-googled Android (it uses microG), and am pleasantly surprised how well everything works. My banking apps work, contacts and calendar lived on nextcloud already, the learning apps I use work.
The two things I have to get used to is not having google maps, but the map app on there has also worked fine for me so far. And casting to a Chromecast doesn't really work for me, but I can live without that.
If you want, we can ritually bury your Chromecast? I'll bring the marshmallows, spiders, and the Necronomicon. Oh, and two of my old Chromecasts, rotting in a drawer.
There's now someone who wants to build an open attestation system which should comply with both banking requirements for security and allow 3rd party OSes to thrive: https://uattest.net/
They are European, certainly the Euros could come up with some regulation to force banks etc to support a Euro phone. I’d actually welcome this as more competition is better and we can’t seem to kill the duopoly here in the US.
The vast majority of people on this site can afford a couple hundred dollars for a basic Android phone that's used only for tasks like that, and as a bonus it's safer than having banking apps on your main phone. Anyone who isn't willing to spend a couple hundred bucks on the freedom to run whatever software they want on their phone probably doesn't consider software freedom a priority anyway.
Using a Sailfish phone comes from the desire not to use Google or Apple. So wanting to pay using those companies seems an odd requirement. Luckily for paying there are still widely accepted alternatives.
It would not in principle, those rely on hardware backed keys with Google's latest iteration of Google Play Integrity. The only success people have had is by using leaked vendor keys and spoofing device fingerprints for old A11-era devices which did not have the hardware baked in. In time even this avenue will no longer work. People have been trying to get around it for a while [1] but afaik the concept is cryptographically airtight.
Maybe I'm out of the loop but what is everyone doing with banking apps on their phones that's so essential. I see this argument all the time but it's baffling to me.
Regarding the issues of banking apps: if the EU is serious about tech sovereignty, it's up to members to mandate that banks allow their apps to run on Sailfish, or other alternative operating systems. It really is as simple as that.
(But whether any EU member is capable of rising to this (very shallow) challenge... well, I'm justifiably cynical.)
I really wish them success, but I just can't see it anymore. I had the first version and it seems it didn't move much forward from that time. And there were also many screwups, as poisonborz reminded a bit earlier.
Their UI looked novel, but wasn't that great in practice. It wasn't stable (hopefully that changed) and the lack of real apps was killing it before and now even more, as more banks/govs require some "trusted" apps
I dispute your assertion: Sailfish's UI is WAY ahead of iOS and Android. It's simple, consistent, and intuitive; a complete contrast to the mess of iOS and the clunkiness of Android. As for stability, native Sailfish apps on my Xperia XA2 seldom, if ever, crash.
I used to use a Sony phone with Sailfish but stopped when US shifted to voice over LTE and phones I used were not supported by the networks. If this phone works on US networks, I can't wait to get rid of my Android phone for sailfish. I vibed with Sailfish so hard.
The absence of eSIM is a deal breaker for me. I need to travel to the US for work and last time I was there I was having a hard time to find a physical SIM for the phone I had then.
I certainly do not want to try to talk you into this particular phone – but just in the general case so you know, it's pretty easy to get physical Sims that you can download an eSIM onto.
Yeah but usually you need to use an app to upload the eSIM to the SIM card. And that app runs on a certain OS. Whether they run on SFOS, I do not know. It is worth finding out, if you can afford the time for the research.
If you travel to communist/fascist or otherwise authoritarian [1] countries, use a burner. And if your boss wants you to go to USA, have the guts to say no.
[1] Includes UK, as they have FDE unlock laws. No cooperation = years of prison.
Readit News
However, as I've got older I find large phones more and more unwieldy, and I couldn't find a small enough SailfishOS phone to switch to. I'm now running LineageOS on a Jelly Star. The form factor is perfect for me.
Would I return to SailfishOS? Absolutely. But there'd need to be a small phone in the line up for me to migrate to.
I ask, because the device is not officially supported by LineageOS, but if it works well with a different approach it would be an interesting option for me as well.
Any notes on your experience?
Actually, typing this comment right now with this phone.
1. Keyboard: MessagEase or ThumbKey + Jelly Star is a perfect match.
2. Bitwarden passkeys + Firefox doesn't work. As I've researched, same with LineageOS. Didn't check Chrome, though.
3. All apps work without issues. Banking, Google Wallet, taxi, etc. It's a regular Android.
4. Battery isn't great, but charges fast and enough to carry on through the most of the day.
5. It's perfect for running or other outdoor activities.
6. 4G only, I sometimes also use it as an external modem for the laptop, and definitely would appreciate 5G.
7. Android 13 and no updates:/
All in all, I'm happy, but if I could foresee it advance, then I'd go with Jelly Max instead, because freshier Android version, Bitwarden + Firefox passkeys and 5G support.
Unfortunately, Jelly Max a bit bigger than Jelly Star, but still much smaller than other regular smartphones.
For the last 2 years I've been using a similar device from Unihertz's competitor, Cubot. Namely the King Kong Mini 3. No issues, very solid. Given how tiny it is, it gets lots of attention and marks me out as an eccentric (no objections). But stock Android, of course.
Unfortunately, the Sailfish UI itself feels "different for the sake of different" and not because it's functionally more useful. I think the UI is pretty ugly and difficult to navigate. Anyone who "loved" Win8 tiles and/or Windows Mobile flat monochrome UI always praises the SailfishOS UI but outside of that small group I don't think the UI is that functional. It's definitely eschewed it's MeeGo / Nokia N9 UI heritage.
What always surprised me about SFOS is despite running on some pretty decent hardware, the UI always felt sluggish, especially given it's kind of reversed-big-text UI paradigm which shouldn't take much work to render.
I'm glad there's an alternative, but sad it's hasn't seen a reasonable set of UI improvements despite its age.
Considering you almost can't do banking, and in some places interact with the government, without a locked down phone...
I'm pretty sure that, if there are security benefits, they have been artificially tied to the use of the company's distribution method, that coincidentally really needs to be sending usage statistics, monitoring, etc. Surely there exist no conflicts of interest to be found.
100% security theater, and here we are.
Not sure about equivalent apps for other regions, but I don't see why they shouldn't work.
[1] https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/swedish-bank-id-swish/11781/3
https://uattest.net/
[1] https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/banking-apps-on-sailfish-os/1...
[1] https://xdaforums.com/t/discussion-the-root-and-mod-hiding-f...
(But whether any EU member is capable of rising to this (very shallow) challenge... well, I'm justifiably cynical.)
Their UI looked novel, but wasn't that great in practice. It wasn't stable (hopefully that changed) and the lack of real apps was killing it before and now even more, as more banks/govs require some "trusted" apps
And, to my eyes, it simply looks better.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47216037
(I actually do not want to travel to the US, period. But that's a different story.)
[1] Includes UK, as they have FDE unlock laws. No cooperation = years of prison.