It's been a long time and our memory only goes so far back. I'm not even that old, but the time between WWII and my birth is waaaaay less then my current age. Jimmy Doolittle was still hosting Christmas specials on TV when I was a kid. Nobody knows who TF that even is now. I doubt half of America has even heard of the Third Reich. Sure, they know that "Nazi" is some kind of insult, but the rest is history forgotten. The last educational film on the matter was Indiana Jones III.
Those of us who remember history will continue to fight, and our numbers aren't small. Maybe one day we can begin to repair the enormous national and global damage that has occurred.
It's pretty much the UN concentration-camp conspiracy theory that rightwing nutters have been pushing for decades, except that now it's their guys doing it so it's all OK.
They’re concentration camps. What else do you call a place built to hold tens of thousands of people? Why do you need 75,000 beds if you’re not planning to cram people in?
Then what happens after they’re locked in there? Are they processed one by one? Do the math. Even with absurdly optimistic assumptions of one hour per person, eight hours a day, every single day. You’re still talking about more than a year to get through 75,000 people. And that assumes perfect efficiency, no delays, no shortages, no illness.
While all that’s happening, people will get sick, injured, desperate. People will die. And after someone is “processed,” where do they go? Immediately put on a plane and sent back to their home country? Is that realistically happening at scale?
This setup isn’t about processing people. It’s about warehousing them. And when large numbers of people are caged indefinitely under those conditions, deaths get written off as “suicides.”
I think there is a hesitation to downplay what the Jews experienced by using the same name, even if it accurate. Maybe some of the same things are happening but it's not the same as the Jewish experience in Germany.
Personally I have no issue with calling them concentration camps but it does feel there needs to be a word to distinguish them from the camps of the Holocaust.
You could get a visa in someplace like UAE tomorrow if you incorporate a shell company. Why would you wait if your plan is to flee anyway? It will only get more difficult the longer you wait.
By the way most countries require an apostilled FBI background check, recent copy of birth certificate w/ updated apostille, apostilled other documents, etc for a resident visa and they all have to be done within 90 days of your visa . So by the time the government is dysfunctional you'll only be able to flee to places without functional immigration control like Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, central Africa, etc as there will simply be no way to get the needed documents.
Oh and as a side note, having fought, and later leaving a civil war. Most likely you will get out if you have enough intelligence or money to navigate the border but you'll be robbed of everything you have on the way out unless you're just incredibly lucky.
Yes. Depending on the country and situation, these things can take a long time. We have ours in the works already and it's looking like 1-2 years to go through.
I may not be the best one to answer - I estimated 50% chance by last August. (I'm happy to be wrong.)
A civil war you can flee once the shooting starts. (Probably. Maybe not if you are male and of military age. And the region you're in may close the border for whatever reason.)
A coup is perhaps more likely to close the border, or at least to close it to "people like you" (if the side that doesn't like your kind is in charge). For that, I'd keep a close eye on this election, and up until the new Congress takes office, and maybe just after that. But if anything is going to happen, it will probably be before the new Congress is seated, because it's harder to create a veil of plausible grounds after that.
As somebody who'd rather fight the fascists now, I don't think it's super likely.
Enjoy some wild speculation, if that's your jam:
My bet is that DJT will kick off from a stroke in the next 2 years, the GOP will get beat, and things will "go back to normal". But the Dems will elect some jerk like Newsome and not do the important work of imposing consequences, so this fascist power will return after two presidential terms of delicious brunch (which will fail to make progress on the environment, mass incarceration, immigration, student loan debt, housing, the economy, or anything, really).
AI and small drones will be -even- better at that point, along with an ever tighter network of flock cameras.
The propaganda will be even more solid and the aging/retired gen-xers whose grand kids won't talk to them will largely be interacting with AI-based pals who are making the same kind of pronouncements that Nome and Vance are currently making but in the voice of their first girlfriend from 1987.
Personally, I'd rather see some very extreme change now instead of fighting that fight in 15 years (or, rather, supporting the 30 year olds fighting, because I will be pretty old then).
It's not a very realistic picture of the future though; it could be the case that all this comes to a head soon. It could be the case that soon folks have some real come-to-jeebus moment about Epstein-types and capitalism (hey, it's not Capitalism, it's just croney internationalist capitalism that is the problem bro, we can just implement this anarcho-Reaganist platform, these aren't limitations on capitalists, just "normal Christian Democrat" reforms).
It might be the case that the real limits of 3-5K soldiers operating against an armed and organized city of 100k midwesterners makes it obvious what the outcomes will be if they don't stop pushing their hands.
For instance, when they start busting, say, signal chat groups of suburban soccer moms that have taken up sniping tires and cutting the power to facilities, folks might no longer have the stomach for the kinds of applications of power necessary to prevent the actions of "the people" who have their hands on all the little levers.
It could be the case that the global ecosystem really is as bad as it appears and giant storms break all the just-in-time delivery systems in the so-called advanced but fault-intolerant countries about the same time Ebola Plus (tm) hits, and we all go back to living in the beautiful caves in the pinion forests of my back yard (that's my preferred outcome even though it'll probably kill me).
Hell monkeys could fly out of my butt (that would probably kill me too, but I die in most scenarios I can imagine).
To answer your question, all things equal if you're gonna flee, flee. I'm not, but that's because I don't think there is anywhere to go.
Crime rate has been going down for 30 consecutive years (except during COVID). Immigrants (legal or otherwise) commit crimes at a lower rate than citizens. "It seems" is doing a lot of work in your comment.
Why hedge with "from what I've understood" if you're confident that you're actually talking about reality? Rather, it sounds more like a deliberate badge of ignorance.
Crime rate has shot up violently. It just isn't being recorded right now. But it will be in future and the perpetrators dealt with, including if necessary by hanging.
Measles Has Now Begun To Infect Immigrant Detention Camps
It’s darkly funny, in a way, to recall a racist trope that gets trotted out about immigration all the time: immigrants bring disease into the country. That in itself isn’t funny, obviously. The funny part is that it seems like we’re proving the opposite to be true under the Trump administration. As the measles outbreak in America continues to rage, immigration detention camps are starting to feel the effects.
...
It’s also worth remembering that the spread of disease is a recurring feature in the concentration camp industry. Deaths from disease as well. And, unlike the trope mentioned above, these are infections immigrants are getting from America, not bringing to her soil.
One of Hitlers first act was to convert a series of warehouses, unused factories, empty hotels into makeshift camps (“wild camps”) which would set the stage for the eventual concentration camp system. This happened almost immediately after the appointment of Hitler as chancellor. He hadn’t become the Fuhrer yet.
To be specific, those warehouses were used to 'reform' political enemies for a few months (communists at first, then democrats and liberals). The point was visible torture, then letting the political opponent out and forbidding him to talk about what happened inside (despite leaving torture marks, removed nails etc).
Readit News
Those of us who remember history will continue to fight, and our numbers aren't small. Maybe one day we can begin to repair the enormous national and global damage that has occurred.
Dead Comment
Then what happens after they’re locked in there? Are they processed one by one? Do the math. Even with absurdly optimistic assumptions of one hour per person, eight hours a day, every single day. You’re still talking about more than a year to get through 75,000 people. And that assumes perfect efficiency, no delays, no shortages, no illness.
While all that’s happening, people will get sick, injured, desperate. People will die. And after someone is “processed,” where do they go? Immediately put on a plane and sent back to their home country? Is that realistically happening at scale?
This setup isn’t about processing people. It’s about warehousing them. And when large numbers of people are caged indefinitely under those conditions, deaths get written off as “suicides.”
Personally I have no issue with calling them concentration camps but it does feel there needs to be a word to distinguish them from the camps of the Holocaust.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_camp
By the way most countries require an apostilled FBI background check, recent copy of birth certificate w/ updated apostille, apostilled other documents, etc for a resident visa and they all have to be done within 90 days of your visa . So by the time the government is dysfunctional you'll only be able to flee to places without functional immigration control like Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, central Africa, etc as there will simply be no way to get the needed documents.
Oh and as a side note, having fought, and later leaving a civil war. Most likely you will get out if you have enough intelligence or money to navigate the border but you'll be robbed of everything you have on the way out unless you're just incredibly lucky.
A civil war you can flee once the shooting starts. (Probably. Maybe not if you are male and of military age. And the region you're in may close the border for whatever reason.)
A coup is perhaps more likely to close the border, or at least to close it to "people like you" (if the side that doesn't like your kind is in charge). For that, I'd keep a close eye on this election, and up until the new Congress takes office, and maybe just after that. But if anything is going to happen, it will probably be before the new Congress is seated, because it's harder to create a veil of plausible grounds after that.
Enjoy some wild speculation, if that's your jam:
My bet is that DJT will kick off from a stroke in the next 2 years, the GOP will get beat, and things will "go back to normal". But the Dems will elect some jerk like Newsome and not do the important work of imposing consequences, so this fascist power will return after two presidential terms of delicious brunch (which will fail to make progress on the environment, mass incarceration, immigration, student loan debt, housing, the economy, or anything, really).
AI and small drones will be -even- better at that point, along with an ever tighter network of flock cameras.
The propaganda will be even more solid and the aging/retired gen-xers whose grand kids won't talk to them will largely be interacting with AI-based pals who are making the same kind of pronouncements that Nome and Vance are currently making but in the voice of their first girlfriend from 1987.
Personally, I'd rather see some very extreme change now instead of fighting that fight in 15 years (or, rather, supporting the 30 year olds fighting, because I will be pretty old then).
It's not a very realistic picture of the future though; it could be the case that all this comes to a head soon. It could be the case that soon folks have some real come-to-jeebus moment about Epstein-types and capitalism (hey, it's not Capitalism, it's just croney internationalist capitalism that is the problem bro, we can just implement this anarcho-Reaganist platform, these aren't limitations on capitalists, just "normal Christian Democrat" reforms).
It might be the case that the real limits of 3-5K soldiers operating against an armed and organized city of 100k midwesterners makes it obvious what the outcomes will be if they don't stop pushing their hands.
For instance, when they start busting, say, signal chat groups of suburban soccer moms that have taken up sniping tires and cutting the power to facilities, folks might no longer have the stomach for the kinds of applications of power necessary to prevent the actions of "the people" who have their hands on all the little levers.
It could be the case that the global ecosystem really is as bad as it appears and giant storms break all the just-in-time delivery systems in the so-called advanced but fault-intolerant countries about the same time Ebola Plus (tm) hits, and we all go back to living in the beautiful caves in the pinion forests of my back yard (that's my preferred outcome even though it'll probably kill me).
Hell monkeys could fly out of my butt (that would probably kill me too, but I die in most scenarios I can imagine).
To answer your question, all things equal if you're gonna flee, flee. I'm not, but that's because I don't think there is anywhere to go.