I knew some people that were initially very optimistic, and I tried to keep an open mind when DOGE got started despite the outlandish claims that they would be able to cut $2 trillion dollars from the budget, but it's apparent at this point that the project has been an extreme failure. It'll probably take a few years to really sort out their damage and overall impact though.
It's also imperative to mention in every DOGE-related discussion and conversation that the funding freeze to USAID is directly responsible for killing thousands of people [0]. Most of the damage done by DOGE can probably be reversed, but the thousands of death as a direct result of actions taken by the richest man in the world should not be forgotten. (Although I'm told there is a bit of uncertainty with any specific figures because the funding disruption also impacted the mechanisms for tracking and reporting deaths.)
I work @ the nih, formerly at the cdc... can I politely ask why they were optimistic? When I first started seeing rumblings about this a year ago, my first thought was "the deficit is entitlement spending; this is a political problem, not a bureaucratic one".
Anyways, like you, I genuinely wish the DOGEsters would have asked us what we thought was inefficient about gov work. I have been in many meetings where 90% of it was spent complaining about compliance. I personally hate the USAJOBS system. Like any big company, there's a lot that can be improved.
Instead, they went scorched-Earth and assumed we were all deep state leeches. Elon acted like he had just done a leveraged buyout of the US government. For me, he remains the most embarrassing man on Earth.
Agreed, anyone who just glanced at federal budget would know, it's Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid/Defense. Touching anything else is just tinkering at edges.
> "the deficit is entitlement spending; this is a political problem, not a bureaucratic one".
Sort of? Medicare is about a trillion dollars, but what percentage of that is actually helping people and how much is going to unnecessary tests or fraud or overpaying for things? If e.g. HHS issues some bad rules that increase healthcare costs, that increases the cost of Medicare and Medicaid and the VA, but if you're doing it properly you're not ignoring that part of HHS just because its regulatory budget is comparatively smaller when it's doing things that incur billions in indirect costs.
Moreover, you can't find a trillion dollars in a program that costs a million dollars, but if it costs a million dollars and isn't worth a million dollars then that's not a reason to keep it.
And nobody can claim with a straight face that the military budget contains no inefficiencies, but that's not entitlement spending.
> Instead, they went scorched-Earth and assumed we were all deep state leeches.
The general problem is that nobody wants their thing to be the thing that gets cut even when it's the thing that ought to be, and then how do you tell if something is actually important when somebody will claim that everything is? It's legitimately a hard problem and DOGE did not succeed in solving it, but that means we need a solution that actually works or people are going to keep coming at you with knives drawn because the status quo is untenable.
Because I think everyone agrees there is extreme amounts of waste in government spending and budgets. I was hopeful when they announced DOGE but imo they went about it entirely wrong.
Any “we’re going to fix waste in the government and reduce the deficit” project that doesn’t lead with “… so first we’re going to review the last twenty years of recommendations from the CBO and GAO and start implementing what they say or imply we should do to meet those goals” is almost certainly bullshit.
Being optimistic about this one was one of those “having a mind so open your brain falls out” sorts of things.
Yep. There’s an entire catalog already built of deeply researched inefficiencies in the government.
What a shame that DOGE burned a huge portion of this generation’s willingness to take a bold approach to said inefficiencies. Similar efforts will be tainted for years.
It is not remotely a failure. As a vessel for achieving project 2025 goals, the clear purpose of DOGE, it was successful. It's just that the successes it achieved are reprehensible.
That was not the clear purpose of DOGE. The Trump campaign deliberately distanced itself from Project 2025. If they had been honest about their intent to enact Project 2025 to voters, they would have lost.
I think this article is correct in spirit but a little disingenuous in parts. Would it not be more fair to blame Russia as the primary cause for the deaths in Ukraine due to the collapsing health care system rather than USAID subsequently intervening to stop easily preventable deaths.
I say this not to defend DOGE but rather to emphasize that we should always make abundantly clear the humanitarian disaster in Ukraine lies solely with Putin
We should also not ignore the fact that USAID was responsible for many hundreds of millions (if not more) in fraudulently directed contracts and spending [1].
And that makes those deaths fine and dandy, or what do you mean now? When I go to the hospital I don't expect to be killed to fix my cancer, even though it would indeed make me cancer free.
These people stole all the DBs and stored them on insecure systems and in the cloud. I am expecting all these individuals or connected individuals to immediately be seized and jailed by an Executive Order from the next Democrat President. A lot of people need to serve long prison sentences and these guys are prime candidates.
> I am expecting all these individuals or connected individuals to immediately be seized and jailed by an Executive Order from the next Democrat President.
Democrats broadly lack the spine necessary for this. But regardless, this is also illegal. Despite the actions of the current administration, an EO to snatch people off the street and jail them would violate the 4th amendment.
That would be for a court to decide later. Meanwhile, they'll languish in a hot and humid prison somewhere. Preferably Alligator Alcatraz. Even if some court decided then it would immediately be appealed and precedent from the current Executive Branch shows that court orders don't need to necessarily be obeyed anytime soon.
The party elites are complacent. That’s creating a political vacuum for someone who’s more aggressive.
> this is also illegal
An EO is. The President asking the FBI, DoJ and state AGs to prioritise the last administration’s lawbreakers—a thing Biden was elected to do and failed at—is just norms and conventions.
> I am expecting all these individuals or connected individuals to immediately be seized and jailed by an Executive Order from the next Democrat President
I am not expecting the Democrats, at least as they are now, to pursue justice regarding the schemers and criminals in this administration. They are far more interested in preserving power structures and the tiered justice system than even the easy political win inherent in holding their enemies to account. Expect the rhetoric to rapidly shift to "moving forward" and "Trump was an exception, other Republicans are totally reasonable coworkers."
You give them too much credit if you even suspect them of doing the right thing. You can't expect them to just give up an avenue to such an unfair advantage, no matter how illegal it is. Their wealth and power is incompatible with ethics and legality. I mean, what else do you expect from a guy who so insensitivity mocked and laughed on TV at the misery and suffering that he inflicted on the ordinary people? Besides, who is gatekeping their access to the federal systems now? They fired everybody who tried to resist.
Let me get into a conspiratorial territory now. I have a feeling that the access to those systems are not limited to just this wannabe-Nazi and his minions. I suspect that some very hostile and clandestine elements like Palantir might have integrated into it. I don't have serious evidences to back up any of these. But a lot of people are discussing this now. These aren't even secret plots. These tech bro billionaires have been publicly expressing their contempt and disdain for ordinary people and democracy for nearly two decades now. They had been publicly endorsing and promiting tech authoritarianism. Much like the Project 2025, they had been outlining their plans too (though less publicized), that they're following to the dot now. Crimes come with a user manual these days, it seems! They salivate over a tech dystopia like in the Dredd comics. What lends credibility to this is their publicly conspicuous cooperation, that's less likely under normal circumstances.
All these are why I always say that 'I have nothing to hide' is a terrible argument against personal privacy. Anyways, just assume that your past and future confidential information is entirely compromised by some very nefarious elements that are openly hostile at you.
Destroyed a bunch of services to the American people in an extremely haphazard way with little thought to the consequences.
Destroyed morale in the Federal workforce through mass firings which caused hardship to thousands, with little thought to the consequences.
Literally killed thousands in Africa/Asia by removing aid with little thought to the consequences. (Even if USAID was a soft-power/CIA tool, the actual aid was real.)
Possibly it was, though I don't think Elon Musk is an ideologue in the Project2025 sense. Rather, he saw an opportunity to "solve government" and bought an election to do so, and then it didn't turn out the way things he wanted (turns out "solving government" is not a technical problem to be fixed by bringing in a bunch of Monster-fueled trigger-happy coders).
If it was his goal, it doesn't make much sense as to why -- it doesn't advance Elon's other stated goals in any way.
This was all incredibly illegal and anyone involved in this should see the inside of a cell for a very long time.
E: if you disagree with me, you need to familiarize yourself with congressional budget allocation, the impoundment act, and federal data privacy laws. DOGE did not have the unilateral authority to do basically anything it tried to do and we have yet to hold anyone accountable for trying to subvert the will of the people.
One of the random 19-year-olds they hired (whose nickname is "BigBalls") previously worked selling VPN services to a cybercriminal group ("the Com") whose activities involved extorting children for CSAM and then blackmailing them into committing suicide on livestream.
Tagging on I really recommend everyone read up on groups like the Com, 764, or O9A. It's impossible to describe these groups without sounding like an insane conspiracy theorist and yet they're all real.
I know that it was somewhat illegal, but nothing to do with the details of how the massive government bureaucracy functions or the rules it follows are anything to do with what you might call the "will of the people." It's the kind of thing you don't even know without hiring a lawyer that specifically specializes in it.
It's likely that DOGE was just a facade for a clandestine infiltration plan. They let that facade crumble when they finally had the deep data compromise that they craved. But they still invoke that name whenever they want to do something while hiding their identity.
The more distressing part of this obvious policy mistake is that if any remaining journalist attempts to take the administration to task on this failure, they’ll just be called a disgusting piggy and scolded for having the gall to bring it up.
DOGE represents all the worst aspects of startup culture.
These guys saw all the existing expertise in the federal government as lazy, stupid, old-fashioned, and wasteful, and they thought that they were basically supermen - smarter, harder working, infused with AI superpowers. So they ripped up institutions that have been built at great public cost over generations. These institutions deal with incredibly complex real-world problems. But the DOGE people thought that with AI they could make better decisions in a few seconds than people with decades of experience.
The results were pretty much what you would expect. Much of what they trashed was valuable, even lifesaving. (USAID is the prime example). Destroying it saved the US government a relative pittance (the US government spent more money in 2025 than 2024) but the human cost was enormous.
Imagine being a young political leader in a developing country. You've grown up thinking favorably about the US because of the positive engagement we've made with your country - not just humanitarian aid, but also elites in your country have gone to school in the US and felt welcomed here. Now, you've just seen that the US will abandon all its promises to you in a heartbeat and leave your country with a humanitarian catastrophe. Why would you ever see the US favorably?
Or imagine that you're a small business owner who provided some valuable product or service to the US government. You've made business plans based on the understanding that the US government is a reliable customer. Then an AI told a 23 year old with no experience in your field that your contract was wasteful.
The DOGE guys will move on to other cushy startup jobs. They'll make a ton of money in their careers. The rest of us will be left to deal with the fallout.
These guys need to face the music imo. If people don't face prosecution it will be damaging.
Elon must needs to be investigated. All previous investigation need to be reviewed and if DOGE stopped or slowed any of them they need to be turned up to 10000000.
This has been everyone else's experience of the Trump regime, as well.
Here in Australia we've been "America's Poodle" for generations, enthusiastically joined in on every war and bizarre colonial adventure that the USA has started. And then we get slapped with tariffs and insulted by the President. Our politicians are slowly grappling with the new reality that the USA is not our friend and ally any more.
Europe has a similar experience. No longer is the West "shoulder to shoulder" fighting the authoritarian regimes and defending shared values. Suddenly Europe is not an ally, possibly an economic enemy, and is being insulted by the President.
The damage that the last 9 months have done to the USA's standing with the rest of the world is unbelievable. As has been said before; Trump may not be a Russian agent, but it's hard to see what a Russian agent would have done differently.
And that includes DOGE - ripping up government institutions that have taken decades to build is not a productive measure, it's destructive. It's what the USA's enemies would do to it if they could.
The halfway competent folks in the US realize that this has happened, and that the repercussions will last for a decade or more. Regaining international trust, and all the privileges that came with it, will not be easy or pleasant. I fear that it may not be possible, if China steps up too quickly.
Many people make an analogy to Brexit, where a democracy intentionally commits economic and political suicide. I fear the impact on the US will be far worse than Brexit's impact on the UK.
Readit News
It's also imperative to mention in every DOGE-related discussion and conversation that the funding freeze to USAID is directly responsible for killing thousands of people [0]. Most of the damage done by DOGE can probably be reversed, but the thousands of death as a direct result of actions taken by the richest man in the world should not be forgotten. (Although I'm told there is a bit of uncertainty with any specific figures because the funding disruption also impacted the mechanisms for tracking and reporting deaths.)
[0] https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-new-yorker-documentary...
Anyways, like you, I genuinely wish the DOGEsters would have asked us what we thought was inefficient about gov work. I have been in many meetings where 90% of it was spent complaining about compliance. I personally hate the USAJOBS system. Like any big company, there's a lot that can be improved.
Instead, they went scorched-Earth and assumed we were all deep state leeches. Elon acted like he had just done a leveraged buyout of the US government. For me, he remains the most embarrassing man on Earth.
Sort of? Medicare is about a trillion dollars, but what percentage of that is actually helping people and how much is going to unnecessary tests or fraud or overpaying for things? If e.g. HHS issues some bad rules that increase healthcare costs, that increases the cost of Medicare and Medicaid and the VA, but if you're doing it properly you're not ignoring that part of HHS just because its regulatory budget is comparatively smaller when it's doing things that incur billions in indirect costs.
Moreover, you can't find a trillion dollars in a program that costs a million dollars, but if it costs a million dollars and isn't worth a million dollars then that's not a reason to keep it.
And nobody can claim with a straight face that the military budget contains no inefficiencies, but that's not entitlement spending.
> Instead, they went scorched-Earth and assumed we were all deep state leeches.
The general problem is that nobody wants their thing to be the thing that gets cut even when it's the thing that ought to be, and then how do you tell if something is actually important when somebody will claim that everything is? It's legitimately a hard problem and DOGE did not succeed in solving it, but that means we need a solution that actually works or people are going to keep coming at you with knives drawn because the status quo is untenable.
Deleted Comment
It has been a rousing success, if by success you mean Musk stealing a boatload of information he had absolutely no right to have.
Being optimistic about this one was one of those “having a mind so open your brain falls out” sorts of things.
What a shame that DOGE burned a huge portion of this generation’s willingness to take a bold approach to said inefficiencies. Similar efforts will be tainted for years.
I say this not to defend DOGE but rather to emphasize that we should always make abundantly clear the humanitarian disaster in Ukraine lies solely with Putin
Dead Comment
Deleted Comment
Dead Comment
Dead Comment
Dead Comment
Dead Comment
[1] https://www.irs.gov/compliance/criminal-investigation/usaid-...
Deleted Comment
Democrats broadly lack the spine necessary for this. But regardless, this is also illegal. Despite the actions of the current administration, an EO to snatch people off the street and jail them would violate the 4th amendment.
The party elites are complacent. That’s creating a political vacuum for someone who’s more aggressive.
> this is also illegal
An EO is. The President asking the FBI, DoJ and state AGs to prioritise the last administration’s lawbreakers—a thing Biden was elected to do and failed at—is just norms and conventions.
I am not expecting the Democrats, at least as they are now, to pursue justice regarding the schemers and criminals in this administration. They are far more interested in preserving power structures and the tiered justice system than even the easy political win inherent in holding their enemies to account. Expect the rhetoric to rapidly shift to "moving forward" and "Trump was an exception, other Republicans are totally reasonable coworkers."
Let me get into a conspiratorial territory now. I have a feeling that the access to those systems are not limited to just this wannabe-Nazi and his minions. I suspect that some very hostile and clandestine elements like Palantir might have integrated into it. I don't have serious evidences to back up any of these. But a lot of people are discussing this now. These aren't even secret plots. These tech bro billionaires have been publicly expressing their contempt and disdain for ordinary people and democracy for nearly two decades now. They had been publicly endorsing and promiting tech authoritarianism. Much like the Project 2025, they had been outlining their plans too (though less publicized), that they're following to the dot now. Crimes come with a user manual these days, it seems! They salivate over a tech dystopia like in the Dredd comics. What lends credibility to this is their publicly conspicuous cooperation, that's less likely under normal circumstances.
All these are why I always say that 'I have nothing to hide' is a terrible argument against personal privacy. Anyways, just assume that your past and future confidential information is entirely compromised by some very nefarious elements that are openly hostile at you.
Destroyed a bunch of services to the American people in an extremely haphazard way with little thought to the consequences.
Destroyed morale in the Federal workforce through mass firings which caused hardship to thousands, with little thought to the consequences.
Literally killed thousands in Africa/Asia by removing aid with little thought to the consequences. (Even if USAID was a soft-power/CIA tool, the actual aid was real.)
Accomplished little to nothing.
I never again want to hear how "smart" Elon is.
If it was his goal, it doesn't make much sense as to why -- it doesn't advance Elon's other stated goals in any way.
E: if you disagree with me, you need to familiarize yourself with congressional budget allocation, the impoundment act, and federal data privacy laws. DOGE did not have the unilateral authority to do basically anything it tried to do and we have yet to hold anyone accountable for trying to subvert the will of the people.
So, there's more to go after if anyone cares to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Comhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/764_(organization)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Nine_Angles
These guys saw all the existing expertise in the federal government as lazy, stupid, old-fashioned, and wasteful, and they thought that they were basically supermen - smarter, harder working, infused with AI superpowers. So they ripped up institutions that have been built at great public cost over generations. These institutions deal with incredibly complex real-world problems. But the DOGE people thought that with AI they could make better decisions in a few seconds than people with decades of experience.
The results were pretty much what you would expect. Much of what they trashed was valuable, even lifesaving. (USAID is the prime example). Destroying it saved the US government a relative pittance (the US government spent more money in 2025 than 2024) but the human cost was enormous.
Imagine being a young political leader in a developing country. You've grown up thinking favorably about the US because of the positive engagement we've made with your country - not just humanitarian aid, but also elites in your country have gone to school in the US and felt welcomed here. Now, you've just seen that the US will abandon all its promises to you in a heartbeat and leave your country with a humanitarian catastrophe. Why would you ever see the US favorably?
Or imagine that you're a small business owner who provided some valuable product or service to the US government. You've made business plans based on the understanding that the US government is a reliable customer. Then an AI told a 23 year old with no experience in your field that your contract was wasteful.
The DOGE guys will move on to other cushy startup jobs. They'll make a ton of money in their careers. The rest of us will be left to deal with the fallout.
Elon must needs to be investigated. All previous investigation need to be reviewed and if DOGE stopped or slowed any of them they need to be turned up to 10000000.
Here in Australia we've been "America's Poodle" for generations, enthusiastically joined in on every war and bizarre colonial adventure that the USA has started. And then we get slapped with tariffs and insulted by the President. Our politicians are slowly grappling with the new reality that the USA is not our friend and ally any more.
Europe has a similar experience. No longer is the West "shoulder to shoulder" fighting the authoritarian regimes and defending shared values. Suddenly Europe is not an ally, possibly an economic enemy, and is being insulted by the President.
The damage that the last 9 months have done to the USA's standing with the rest of the world is unbelievable. As has been said before; Trump may not be a Russian agent, but it's hard to see what a Russian agent would have done differently.
And that includes DOGE - ripping up government institutions that have taken decades to build is not a productive measure, it's destructive. It's what the USA's enemies would do to it if they could.
Many people make an analogy to Brexit, where a democracy intentionally commits economic and political suicide. I fear the impact on the US will be far worse than Brexit's impact on the UK.