I am not skilled in the arts of aggregate curing and occupational exposure, but I wonder if it’s the “silicic acid” or a non-table-variety of “sodium salt” (from the MSDS) that’s sloughing the firefighters’ skin off here… or something that happens when the sodium oxide (from the TDS) hits water? Chemistry class was a lifetime ago but does that turn it back into lye? Is the oxide technically a “sodium salt”?
Seems like something impeachable, this doesn't strike me 'faithful execution of the laws'. Impeachment requires a 2/3 majority in the state senate, which would require only one vote from the Governor's party. The corruption will continue until people do something about it.
From what I've read in the local news, the chemicals were already in the soil, but dumping the waste into the (only) drainage system available without treating it first is apparently a no-no.
This reminded me of another local story (I live in both locations). The local swimming hole was fined for releasing seawater back to where it came from, cleaner than it was beforehand.
Proves again that fines aren't the answer, jail time is. Fines only matter for the poor, the rich just see fines as a cost of business, and the truly rich and powerful just call their friends and problems just magically go away.
Screw this. OSHA and other safety violations should, by default, pierce the corporate veil. Particularly ones where those that help others in need get injured.
The vast majority of violations that lead to loss of life result in charges that are dropped or acquitted. In the US it’s very, very hard to get anyone in jail for gross negligence in construction projects. Look up Plainly Difficult on YouTube, pick one of his hundreds of videos about negligent construction, and there is roughly 99% probability that all the charges were dropped, especially if it was in the US. (It seems to be a bit easier to get people in jail overseas.)
I don’t know why this is, only that it is. And it’s unclear how to change it. You could lobby for new laws, but those tend to be lobbied by the very companies that would stand to lose from those new laws.
Laws don't protect the people, they protect wealth. It's easier to create wealth if you sacrifice life and limb. Look up how many people were buried inside the Hoover Dam -- alive.
The delusion of recompense for damages incurred is a placation of known risk. By that, I mean, if you think you can sue your employer for doing you dirty, then you feel safe to work there.
But it almost never works in the favor of the harmed unless it's a violation of a protected class and that's not really harmful.
What's harmful is dying or losing limbs or the ability to work and employers don't pay much for cases like that.
Get groped by your boss and you'll get millions tho.
> Proves again that fines aren't the answer, jail time is.
Correct. In terms of cost-effectiveness in preventing crime, 30 days in jail for an executive is much more useful than 3 years for a shoplifter. Courts should routinely be handing out short sentences, rather than fines, to suits.
Had a acquaintance who was in a billionaire family. Trick is never ask them for money. They will invite everyone to lunch, parties at the beach house, ect.. The guy drove a Tesla and parked it anywhere. First time I went with the group, there was a ticket on the windshield, he pulls it off, and he says, "It is just a tax." He puts it on the pile of other parking tickets and says, "it is what accountants are for."
Fun fact: in Germany, egregious parking violations can and will lead to your license being not just taken, but you gotta take a psychological evaluation to make sure you're of sound mind [1]. Can't get your way out of that.
This is why the Swiss system makes so much sense. Since fines are meant to a deterrent they need to inflict a similar level of punishment on the people who receive them.
They will only do the business so long as it is profitable. If the fines are high enough that they internalize the negative consequences of the business's behavior, you should get a good outcome. For example, there should be a very large fine if a waymo hits and kills someone. It should not be an infinitely large fine or result in jail time for waymo executives. To operate self-driving cars, they should have to put enough money in escrow to prove they can pay the fine.
You don't want an infinite punishment and you don't want no punishment. You want to align the incentives. Fines are probably the best way to do that for rational actors
> For example, there should be a very large fine if a waymo hits and kills someone. It should not be an infinitely large fine or result in jail time for waymo executives.
The way this is done is by certification and testing. Mercedes Benz for example? They got their driving assistant certified under SAE Level 3 [1]. Do that and you'll get a pass because you followed the legal guidelines - but if you don't and use an uncertified system, it means jail time.
Autonomous cars aren't some random webshop or bananaware (ripens at the customer's), autonomous cars are two ton heavy ballistic weapons capable of mass murder (as a bunch of terror attacks show) and should be treated as such - test before going on the road, not afterwards after you used the general public as guinea pigs.
But people and corporates are demonstrably not rational actors. There are thousands of studies documenting our inability to properly track and think about risks.
Plus, as this story shows, if the fines are large enough they just phone up their friends to have the fines quashed.
Naming culpable individuals inside corporations and regularly holding them accountable is the only way to make this stop.
> Fines are probably the best way to do that for rational actors
How can you say that after not only this instance but also all the other instances that showed how ineffective they are?
That also has the huge assumption that companies are rational actors. They're not. They're merely profit machines that'll do anything to achieve their goal.
Nevada is making a mockery of its own laws by giving Boring Co special exceptions treatment for tunnels that likely get abandoned due to its impracticality.
This isn't the first time: In 2019 Tesla illegally prevented OSHA officials from entering a Tesla site in Nevada (with a warrant and officer from the sheriff's office) to address serious workplace injuries.
These are what are claimed to be the onerous regulations slowing down innovation.
> When Boring Co.’s Davis called the Governor’s office the day the company received the citations, he spoke to Chris Reilly, the governor’s point person for state infrastructure, who was hired in 2024 after working at Tesla for more than seven years.
The revolving door continues to spin. Wouldn’t have guessed that a former Tesla executive now leading state infrastructure policy would give special treatment to another Musk-owned company.
Unsurprising but still despicable that the Boring Company disregards worker and emergency responder safety to this level, and that even a slap on the wrist fine was enough for them to go crying to the governor.
With former pharmaceutical execs working at the FDA regulating drugs, former Boeing execs working at the FAA to regulate airlines and countless more examples it’s staggering corruption in the US isn’t talked about more.
It’s almost like the media companies no longer serve the population, and only serve the corrupt.
It’s exceptionally weird to blame “the media” for this type of thing in the comments of a story that was researched, written, and published by the media. At some point we’re the problem. If we don’t take corruption seriously, and apparently we don’t given everything happening at the moment, that’s a reflection of us and our priorities.
Well, expect more. We’ve gutted the federal bureaucracy like a fish, anyone who wasn’t fired is leaving as soon as they can.
I’m hiring lots of amazing people from the feds. My client is going to make a fortune as the smartest people regulating them are now advocating for them. The government is, as intended, going to be generationally broken.
Readit News
(Long may it live)
As to the grout accelerant in question:
TDS [PDF]: https://assets.ctfassets.net/ctspkgm1yw3s/DMSY-1685695220-39...
MSDS [PDF]: https://assets.ctfassets.net/ctspkgm1yw3s/3Tp3imoxG5XfZlrlzU...
I am not skilled in the arts of aggregate curing and occupational exposure, but I wonder if it’s the “silicic acid” or a non-table-variety of “sodium salt” (from the MSDS) that’s sloughing the firefighters’ skin off here… or something that happens when the sodium oxide (from the TDS) hits water? Chemistry class was a lifetime ago but does that turn it back into lye? Is the oxide technically a “sodium salt”?
And yep, Na2O + H20 -> 2 NaOH, sodium hydroxide :)
[1] https://www.epa.govt.nz/database-search/chemical-classificat...
Off topic, I found out that my university blocks archive.is or any of its mirrors. Why does the university care about this?
https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/environment/no-boring-co-...
https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/politics-and-government/c...
This reminded me of another local story (I live in both locations). The local swimming hole was fined for releasing seawater back to where it came from, cleaner than it was beforehand.
https://www.dailybreeze.com/2010/01/20/redondo-beach-asks-li...
https://documents.coastal.ca.gov/reports/2018/8/th13b/Th13b-...
https://www.dailybreeze.com/2010/04/21/faced-with-the-possib...
https://easyreadernews.com/city-launches-campaign-to-save-la...
Screw this. OSHA and other safety violations should, by default, pierce the corporate veil. Particularly ones where those that help others in need get injured.
I don’t know why this is, only that it is. And it’s unclear how to change it. You could lobby for new laws, but those tend to be lobbied by the very companies that would stand to lose from those new laws.
The delusion of recompense for damages incurred is a placation of known risk. By that, I mean, if you think you can sue your employer for doing you dirty, then you feel safe to work there.
But it almost never works in the favor of the harmed unless it's a violation of a protected class and that's not really harmful.
What's harmful is dying or losing limbs or the ability to work and employers don't pay much for cases like that.
Get groped by your boss and you'll get millions tho.
Correct. In terms of cost-effectiveness in preventing crime, 30 days in jail for an executive is much more useful than 3 years for a shoplifter. Courts should routinely be handing out short sentences, rather than fines, to suits.
I favour this penalty especially for crimes related to worker unions.
[1] https://www.lto.de/recht/nachrichten/n/vgh-baden-wuerttember...
My sense is it would be significantly worse than it is now.
They will only do the business so long as it is profitable. If the fines are high enough that they internalize the negative consequences of the business's behavior, you should get a good outcome. For example, there should be a very large fine if a waymo hits and kills someone. It should not be an infinitely large fine or result in jail time for waymo executives. To operate self-driving cars, they should have to put enough money in escrow to prove they can pay the fine.
You don't want an infinite punishment and you don't want no punishment. You want to align the incentives. Fines are probably the best way to do that for rational actors
The way this is done is by certification and testing. Mercedes Benz for example? They got their driving assistant certified under SAE Level 3 [1]. Do that and you'll get a pass because you followed the legal guidelines - but if you don't and use an uncertified system, it means jail time.
Autonomous cars aren't some random webshop or bananaware (ripens at the customer's), autonomous cars are two ton heavy ballistic weapons capable of mass murder (as a bunch of terror attacks show) and should be treated as such - test before going on the road, not afterwards after you used the general public as guinea pigs.
[1] https://www.heise.de/news/Autonomes-Fahren-Mercedes-wird-Lev...
Plus, as this story shows, if the fines are large enough they just phone up their friends to have the fines quashed.
Naming culpable individuals inside corporations and regularly holding them accountable is the only way to make this stop.
How can you say that after not only this instance but also all the other instances that showed how ineffective they are?
That also has the huge assumption that companies are rational actors. They're not. They're merely profit machines that'll do anything to achieve their goal.
It simply does not work.
These are what are claimed to be the onerous regulations slowing down innovation.
The revolving door continues to spin. Wouldn’t have guessed that a former Tesla executive now leading state infrastructure policy would give special treatment to another Musk-owned company.
Unsurprising but still despicable that the Boring Company disregards worker and emergency responder safety to this level, and that even a slap on the wrist fine was enough for them to go crying to the governor.
It’s almost like the media companies no longer serve the population, and only serve the corrupt.
I’m hiring lots of amazing people from the feds. My client is going to make a fortune as the smartest people regulating them are now advocating for them. The government is, as intended, going to be generationally broken.
Almost ? Who do you think owns the media companies ? /s
Boring Company fined nearly $500K after it dumped drilling fluids into manholes
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45862674
Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45540585