Tron is a fantastically difficult franchise to write for. It is, in my opinion, the most alien franchise in Hollywood. It's unusual for alien worlds in Hollywood to have different physics, but the grid does. Its residents are not human, and while some basic connections to humans are necessary for the audience to care at all, the programs on the grid are not humans. Very different motivations, very different needs.
And now that Hollywood executives have all but open contempt for writing, I had no hopes of them writing a decent Tron film. And they didn't. Even Legacy really kind of squeaked out decent quality (if not spectacularly perfect in every way) in an era where the writing was already degrading; I recall not expecting much from that film even then and being pleasantly surprised. Now it's just hopeless to expect them to be able to write something as foreign as the deeply alien grid residents in Tron when Hollywood writers hardly seem to be able to write about anything that isn't just their own personal interpretation of some family trauma they directly experienced, or their previous night's dinner politics conversation translated to screen with some one genre or another's conventions smeared over it like a bad makeup job.
I think there's a bit of a monoculture in L.A. and the same kind of people keep writing the same kind of movies in big committees.
I think a lot of westerners are getting into anime and manga and part of it is that a manga is typically drawn and written by one person who is responsible for the whole story, contrast that to the "Marvel System" where four people worked on each book -- Stan Lee had a writing credit and it's true that he had a special talent for picking the exact words but the art team had a big influence on deciding how the story would go.
Tron is interesting because we want to go into the digital world. We don't want it to come to us, the whole plot of this is contrary to the fun of the original idea.
Thank you so much for saying this!
The moment I saw the trailer and read the premise I immediately lost faith in the product.
I am not the biggest Tron fan but I have such a soft part in my heart for the movies because the original film has such a unique take on how computers work because back then they weren't mainstream that you end up with this weird mishmash of science and fantasy that you don't see anymore. Meanwhile, the sequel had this amazing production design and the remix version of the album has a permanent spot in my workout playlist thanks to all the techno artists they brought aboard.
Shame that the execs in Disney seem to be so clueless and just keep burning hundreds of millions to make these over-budget star studded films that no one is going to watch, at least in the case of marvel it makes sense but who in the world was clamoring for Tron? You need to take creative risks and shying away from the digital world isn't it.
There was a pretty painful to watch moment where he showed up to an opening night at a movie theater[0]. My favourite comment: "There are more seconds to mars than people in attendance."
Correct. This was initially being developed shortly after "Legacy but the failure of "Tomorrowland" canned the whole thing. Leto came on years later, offered to produce it and star in the film and brought the project back from the dead. This is basically his film, it doesn't exist without Leto as the lead
Their style of intensity and overacting do have some overlap. They've also both demonstrated that, when they care, they can be excellent and nuanced actors.
But Cage's intensity often comes up as kind of funny or endearing. Leto's overacting is often cringy/edgy or downright unpleasant. Which seems to represent both their personalities too.
I watched the movie in 4dx and absolutely loved it! If you are on the fence, DO NOT MISS WATCHING IT IN 3D! (they will never release it in 3d on digital). The visuals and soundtrack are amazing.
The primary beefs seem to be with the supposed plot holes and one-dimensional characters. I won't argue that this movie is perfect because it isn't but IMO the proliferation of video essays on film has turned everybody into a critic. Many now think that narrative works have to fit into a "hero's journey" template where we have to identify with extensively-developed characters just because some guy with a beard on YouTube cut together some clips from "Raiders of the Lost Ark" while ranting loudly and quickly about the Platonic form of narrative structure as executed by blockbuster 80s films. These people clearly don't understand that large swaths of narrative entertainment don't fit this mold and Tron is one such franchise. Complaining about the admittedly-cheesy MacGuffin and Jared Leto's wooden acting in this movie is tantamount to saying that there weren't enough car chases in "Pride and Prejudice". It's a feature-length music video with sci-fi themes, not a modern epic. Enjoy it for what it is.
I'll never see this movie again but I was satisfied with what my $17 bought. I'd recommend seeing it in IMAX before it goes away because the experience won't translate at home.
You end up building this circle for each character, where the plot becomes the vehicle for them seeking and satisfying (or failing to) some need. You don't need purple prose, you just need characters that have motivations that are self-consistent and understood by the viewer. Such understanding does not require sympathy, either.
Much of the complaint over modern narrative is that what we're presented takes on the structure of propaganda pieces [1], not stories for entertainment. We're supposed to be entertained by the propaganda, instead. Many who grew up on good-guy wins against bad-guy don't resonate with story structure broken in service of some message.
I'll probably still see this movie eventually, and I'm not claiming Tron: Ares has these issues (no idea). I'm just not in any hurry to go see it.
>> Propaganda can often be recognized by the rhetorical strategies used in its design. In the 1930s, the Institute for Propaganda Analysis identified a variety of propaganda techniques that were commonly used in newspapers and on the radio, which were the mass media of the time period. Propaganda techniques include "name calling" (using derogatory labels), "bandwagon" (expressing the social appeal of a message), or "glittering generalities" (using positive but imprecise language). With the rise of the internet and social media, Renee Hobbs identified four characteristic design features of many forms of contemporary propaganda: (1) it activates strong emotions; (2) it simplifies information; (3) it appeals to the hopes, fears, and dreams of a targeted audience; and (4) it attacks opponents.
I guess it's really hard to write a sequel to Tron Legacy. Quorra came to life, then what? They're supposed to change the world. How? With a Q&A site? (Sorry I can't help myself with this dumb joke.)
Most people who wanted to see more Tron in the theaters were the ones who liked Tron Legacy (or, less common, Tron Uprising). And the more came out about Tron Ares, the clearer that it was barely a sequel to that.
I liked it too. It was full of tropes in a cute way that I enjoy from contemporary sci-fi, and it was pretty sick to go see in Dolby with the haptic seats.
I love Tron, and NIN. I can't even figure out what the movie is about from the trailers. All the other Tron's I head a good idea of what the movie was about. This one, zero clue... and I have no interest to go to a theater to find out. Will watch once it comes out for home.
But I'm not sure what did people expect really. The previous two Trons films were bang average 5-6/10 (and I say 6 would be very generous). Yes they might have a cult following and good soundtracks but as a film all together they are entirely forgettable.
I was visiting my old university town when I noticed they have a movie theater now. I went in cause I wanted to support it and the only session at the time was tron. I left as soon as my pop corn bucket was empty. What a mess!
We saw it but only because our theater has discount movie tickets on Tuesdays, it's our cheap weekly date within walking distance. We were satisfied watching it for $8/per ticket. At that cost per ticket we don't mind taking a chance on a movie with mixed or poor reviews, and we don't mind seeing a movie outside of our core genres.
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And now that Hollywood executives have all but open contempt for writing, I had no hopes of them writing a decent Tron film. And they didn't. Even Legacy really kind of squeaked out decent quality (if not spectacularly perfect in every way) in an era where the writing was already degrading; I recall not expecting much from that film even then and being pleasantly surprised. Now it's just hopeless to expect them to be able to write something as foreign as the deeply alien grid residents in Tron when Hollywood writers hardly seem to be able to write about anything that isn't just their own personal interpretation of some family trauma they directly experienced, or their previous night's dinner politics conversation translated to screen with some one genre or another's conventions smeared over it like a bad makeup job.
I think a lot of westerners are getting into anime and manga and part of it is that a manga is typically drawn and written by one person who is responsible for the whole story, contrast that to the "Marvel System" where four people worked on each book -- Stan Lee had a writing credit and it's true that he had a special talent for picking the exact words but the art team had a big influence on deciding how the story would go.
Deleted Comment
I am not the biggest Tron fan but I have such a soft part in my heart for the movies because the original film has such a unique take on how computers work because back then they weren't mainstream that you end up with this weird mishmash of science and fantasy that you don't see anymore. Meanwhile, the sequel had this amazing production design and the remix version of the album has a permanent spot in my workout playlist thanks to all the techno artists they brought aboard.
Shame that the execs in Disney seem to be so clueless and just keep burning hundreds of millions to make these over-budget star studded films that no one is going to watch, at least in the case of marvel it makes sense but who in the world was clamoring for Tron? You need to take creative risks and shying away from the digital world isn't it.
[0] https://x.com/VHSDVDBLURAY4K/status/1979279709189083618
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unbearable_Weight_of_Massi...
I think he just likes making films.
But Cage's intensity often comes up as kind of funny or endearing. Leto's overacting is often cringy/edgy or downright unpleasant. Which seems to represent both their personalities too.
The primary beefs seem to be with the supposed plot holes and one-dimensional characters. I won't argue that this movie is perfect because it isn't but IMO the proliferation of video essays on film has turned everybody into a critic. Many now think that narrative works have to fit into a "hero's journey" template where we have to identify with extensively-developed characters just because some guy with a beard on YouTube cut together some clips from "Raiders of the Lost Ark" while ranting loudly and quickly about the Platonic form of narrative structure as executed by blockbuster 80s films. These people clearly don't understand that large swaths of narrative entertainment don't fit this mold and Tron is one such franchise. Complaining about the admittedly-cheesy MacGuffin and Jared Leto's wooden acting in this movie is tantamount to saying that there weren't enough car chases in "Pride and Prejudice". It's a feature-length music video with sci-fi themes, not a modern epic. Enjoy it for what it is.
I'll never see this movie again but I was satisfied with what my $17 bought. I'd recommend seeing it in IMAX before it goes away because the experience won't translate at home.
You end up building this circle for each character, where the plot becomes the vehicle for them seeking and satisfying (or failing to) some need. You don't need purple prose, you just need characters that have motivations that are self-consistent and understood by the viewer. Such understanding does not require sympathy, either.
Much of the complaint over modern narrative is that what we're presented takes on the structure of propaganda pieces [1], not stories for entertainment. We're supposed to be entertained by the propaganda, instead. Many who grew up on good-guy wins against bad-guy don't resonate with story structure broken in service of some message.
I'll probably still see this movie eventually, and I'm not claiming Tron: Ares has these issues (no idea). I'm just not in any hurry to go see it.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
>> Propaganda can often be recognized by the rhetorical strategies used in its design. In the 1930s, the Institute for Propaganda Analysis identified a variety of propaganda techniques that were commonly used in newspapers and on the radio, which were the mass media of the time period. Propaganda techniques include "name calling" (using derogatory labels), "bandwagon" (expressing the social appeal of a message), or "glittering generalities" (using positive but imprecise language). With the rise of the internet and social media, Renee Hobbs identified four characteristic design features of many forms of contemporary propaganda: (1) it activates strong emotions; (2) it simplifies information; (3) it appeals to the hopes, fears, and dreams of a targeted audience; and (4) it attacks opponents.
I don't need some bearded guy on YouTube screaming, when your description is already enough to give me the impression that this is not a good movie.
Admittedly, I went in with extremely low expectations. It was fun, though, and I liked the visuals and the music. The plot was … something.
And it was completely unambitious in exploring the implications of AI coming to life and existing in the real world, their experiences, etc.
Which very much could have happened had they followed up on Tron Legacy
I guess I'd sum it up as a coherent, but forgettable spectacle
Maybe I'm just old enough that all of the plot points and action sequences were familiar from other films.
But I'm not sure what did people expect really. The previous two Trons films were bang average 5-6/10 (and I say 6 would be very generous). Yes they might have a cult following and good soundtracks but as a film all together they are entirely forgettable.