I think you'll find most Brits are not sure about London being taken over by people from places like Pakistan, India and the middle east. I went to Ilford for the first time recently, which used to be white working class and was surprised to find that it now seems about 90% islamic. I'm not sure calling anyone having doubts as to whether it's a good thing or not racist is very productive.
For context I live in central London and quite like the diversity but I don't have a problem with people debating it and saying they'd prefer it different. In fact I think it's healthy to have an open debate.
I mean, swap “Islamic” for “Jewish” and you’ll see the exact same story play out a hundred years earlier. (Read up on the history of Hackney, for example.)
Neighborhoods change character and demographics. It’s pretty normal in large, multicultural cities.
DHH feels like a mini-Elon. Extremely problematic but somehow great at selling to whoever is interviewing him.
The last time I felt DHH deserved headlines was in the early 2000s. Since then I think we're just forced to hear from him because he's good at soundbites.
I've heard this "Elon is great at selling" thing a few times and I simply don't understand it. The guy stumbles over his words frequently, is often awkward, and always attempts to appear smart but often inadvertently reveals his lack of knowledge in whatever topic he's discussing. Clearly not great at selling to me. What am I missing?
You don't have enough credulity of wealthy people. Just imagine you didn't know anything about what he is talking about and you believe people's success is a good barometer of their expertise. Now what he's saying is amazing! You won't have to drive or do chores in a few years, actually a few years ago even! His stumbling over his words is just his big brain thinking of too many things at once
> DHH’s politics are not normal. Maybe they used to be, I don’t know, but as of right now the dude is way the fuck outside of what most people would consider moral or acceptable.
Only a person deeply ensconced in an information bubble could assert this. DHH’s opinions are only surprising and disquieting to a tiny minority of social justice fundamentalists.
The reason this is so uncomfortable for them is because it’s a clear signal that normal middle-of-the-road opinions are (thankfully) becoming normalized once again after the socjus fundies held everyone hostage for over a decade.
The fever is breaking, though, and such people are being revealed for what they actually are: a tiny group of rather unhinged extremists. The rest of us normies are relieved to just be getting back to regular life again.
I'm not a social justice fundamentalist and I find DHH to be reprehensible. You can't assume the only extremists would be disturbed by his opinions. That's a strange position to take about anyone's opinions; even your own.
Like I said in the article: a high-signal indicator that someone knows their views are extreme and unpopular is when they use this sort of rhetoric. There's a reason you're sort of gesturing vaguely at "DHH's opinions" rather than just plainly stating what you mean.
No, this is completely wrong. The DHH article that people are referring to here is straight up white nationalist propaganda. It's not even being coy or beating around the bush about it. White nationalism has always been a fringe belief, and is clearly not a "normal middle-of-the-road" opinion.
It's funny to me that those who tend to jump to calling out "information bubbles" seem to be the ones most ensconced in them. It's not just you; for example, the most recent DHH blog ("We've all had enough of this nonsense") ranting about how people are trying to "cancel me from Rails" contains a sentence full of links calling the outpouring of support overwhelming, and every single link is a link to a Twitter post. It's equivalent to a pro-LGBT candidate boasting that they have overwhelming public support because they polled everyone at the Pride parade.
I'm actually convinced that many people who claim "that normal middle-of-the-road opinions are becoming normalized once again" believe this _solely_ because of the overwhelmingly hard-rightward shift of political beliefs on Twitter. These people don't seem to understand that Twitter is not real life.
I don’t use Twitter, and I abhor white nationalism as much as any other kind of genetic population-based supremacy movement. So you’re at least wrong about me.
Like DHH, though, I am staunchly anti-multiculturalism. This has nothing to do with genetics or identity groups; it has everything to do with beliefs. Search your own convictions, and you’ll likely find that you feel the same way as DHH and I: you likely want your neighbors to not be ardent believers, for example, that women are inherently 2nd class citizens.
See? We’re already on the same page. You’ve just been misled into thinking that anti-multiculturalism is somehow related to the poison of one specific identity-based movement (white supremacy). You should attempt to discover how and why you’ve been duped, and by whom.
> Note that David never actually addresses the “far right” label on its merits — he just pivots to calling it overused, trying to direct your attention elsewhere like a magician distracting the audience as he performs a trick.
I'm not sure he's bringing it up for that reason. He thinks the label is losing its power because it really is losing power over him, because he's becoming more comfortable with it and beginning to accept it. Keep an eye out for if he starts to call himself a fascist "ironically".
Look, I've no reason to defend him. I do like Basecamp and the books that have been published by the team. That said, I don't care one iota if a millionaire formerly-cool guy digs himself a grave. Okay, that's my online-mandated disclaimer to come across as a neutral figure.
The label is losing its power. The central blocs have been labelling everything they don't like as either far left or far right. The party I mainly vote for in my home country has been accused of being far left, when they've stayed to their traditionally left/center-left discourse.
I think there's a case, in Europe, for accusing the mainstream parties of moving the far left/right goalposts so people who vote for these parties are seen as a marginal part of the electorate.
> DHH’s politics are not normal. Maybe they used to be, I don’t know, but as of right now the dude is way the fuck outside of what most people would consider moral or acceptable.
Is being vaguely anti-immigrant actually that far outside of what people people consider moral or acceptable these days? Like, I am shocked how much gets said on HN when H1B's are brought up.
I don't agree with with any of the points in DHH's linked article. But like, DHH acknowledging Tommy Robinson's march existed probably shouldn't subject him to every criticism of Tommy Robinson.
A large portion of DHH's article is dedicated to Tommy Robinson and the march. It's almost a common thread that ties it together, weaving in callbacks throughout. He is romanticising TR and the march. It's beyond merely acknowledging its existence. There's definitely an air of admiration.
As for Tommy, if you are not familiar with it's worth looking at his Wikipedia entry. He is a violent thug and career criminal. He has been convicted of: fraud, possession intent to supply drugs, assaulting a police officer (whom he kicked in the head while on the floor), entering the US on a false passport, stalking and harassing journalists, contempt of court on multiple occasions (one of which he seriously jeopardised the court trial of some paedophiles) This is not an exhaustive list. And without getting into his foul politics. Lending any credence whatsoever to this man is very telling
DHH was specifically romanticising and defending the marches. (Although he did reference a tweet from TR as a source - that's a worse look.)
Listen - you don't have to sell me on not liking Robinson. But plenty of people participate in political moments without fulling endorsing their progenitors (plenty of iconic activists have problematic pasts), so it seems fair to at least give DHH the benefit of the doubt when it comes to associations. Lest we all be judged by the same standard.
Readit News
For context I live in central London and quite like the diversity but I don't have a problem with people debating it and saying they'd prefer it different. In fact I think it's healthy to have an open debate.
It is most certainly NOT calling "anyone having doubts" a "racist".
It is calling one particular person's astonishingly racist post as exactly what it is.
I think jakelazaroff twists things rather - I'm after something DHH actually wrote.
Neighborhoods change character and demographics. It’s pretty normal in large, multicultural cities.
The last time I felt DHH deserved headlines was in the early 2000s. Since then I think we're just forced to hear from him because he's good at soundbites.
prolific self-published author of free things on the internet sometimes also sold as books
> software engineer
along with many others who wrote great things in 2005! but what lately? the setup script called omarachy?
> entrepreneur
again, we're two decades from anything I'd call entrepreneurial
babies have born and can vote since the last major wave DHH made, but he's great at soundbites and attention cycles
Only a person deeply ensconced in an information bubble could assert this. DHH’s opinions are only surprising and disquieting to a tiny minority of social justice fundamentalists.
The reason this is so uncomfortable for them is because it’s a clear signal that normal middle-of-the-road opinions are (thankfully) becoming normalized once again after the socjus fundies held everyone hostage for over a decade.
The fever is breaking, though, and such people are being revealed for what they actually are: a tiny group of rather unhinged extremists. The rest of us normies are relieved to just be getting back to regular life again.
Hmm. What do you think his opinions mean?
It's funny to me that those who tend to jump to calling out "information bubbles" seem to be the ones most ensconced in them. It's not just you; for example, the most recent DHH blog ("We've all had enough of this nonsense") ranting about how people are trying to "cancel me from Rails" contains a sentence full of links calling the outpouring of support overwhelming, and every single link is a link to a Twitter post. It's equivalent to a pro-LGBT candidate boasting that they have overwhelming public support because they polled everyone at the Pride parade.
I'm actually convinced that many people who claim "that normal middle-of-the-road opinions are becoming normalized once again" believe this _solely_ because of the overwhelmingly hard-rightward shift of political beliefs on Twitter. These people don't seem to understand that Twitter is not real life.
Like DHH, though, I am staunchly anti-multiculturalism. This has nothing to do with genetics or identity groups; it has everything to do with beliefs. Search your own convictions, and you’ll likely find that you feel the same way as DHH and I: you likely want your neighbors to not be ardent believers, for example, that women are inherently 2nd class citizens.
See? We’re already on the same page. You’ve just been misled into thinking that anti-multiculturalism is somehow related to the poison of one specific identity-based movement (white supremacy). You should attempt to discover how and why you’ve been duped, and by whom.
Hey, DHH. You're a wanker, mate. And, speaking as a Londoner, you haven't the foggiest idea what you're talking about.
Stick to Rails, something you actually seem proficient at.
I'm not sure he's bringing it up for that reason. He thinks the label is losing its power because it really is losing power over him, because he's becoming more comfortable with it and beginning to accept it. Keep an eye out for if he starts to call himself a fascist "ironically".
The label is losing its power. The central blocs have been labelling everything they don't like as either far left or far right. The party I mainly vote for in my home country has been accused of being far left, when they've stayed to their traditionally left/center-left discourse.
I think there's a case, in Europe, for accusing the mainstream parties of moving the far left/right goalposts so people who vote for these parties are seen as a marginal part of the electorate.
Is being vaguely anti-immigrant actually that far outside of what people people consider moral or acceptable these days? Like, I am shocked how much gets said on HN when H1B's are brought up.
I don't agree with with any of the points in DHH's linked article. But like, DHH acknowledging Tommy Robinson's march existed probably shouldn't subject him to every criticism of Tommy Robinson.
As for Tommy, if you are not familiar with it's worth looking at his Wikipedia entry. He is a violent thug and career criminal. He has been convicted of: fraud, possession intent to supply drugs, assaulting a police officer (whom he kicked in the head while on the floor), entering the US on a false passport, stalking and harassing journalists, contempt of court on multiple occasions (one of which he seriously jeopardised the court trial of some paedophiles) This is not an exhaustive list. And without getting into his foul politics. Lending any credence whatsoever to this man is very telling
Listen - you don't have to sell me on not liking Robinson. But plenty of people participate in political moments without fulling endorsing their progenitors (plenty of iconic activists have problematic pasts), so it seems fair to at least give DHH the benefit of the doubt when it comes to associations. Lest we all be judged by the same standard.
He is not vague about it.
> DHH acknowledging Tommy Robinson's march existed
He did more than just acknowledge it.
> London is no longer the city I was infatuated with in the late '90s and early 2000s. Chiefly because it's no longer full of native Brits.
and linked to the Wikipedia page on ethnic groups in London showing that there aren't as many white people in London as there used to be.
About Tommy Robinson's march, he wrote Tommy Robinson's march
> That frustration [with mass immigration] was on wide display in Tommy Robinson's march yesterday. British and English flags flying high and proud
Tommy Robinson is devoutly anti-Islam and founded the English Defence League.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45332860
774 points | 496 comments | 10 days ago