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Waterluvian · 3 months ago
I think the interesting idea with “AI” is that it seems to significantly reduce barriers to entry in many domains.

I haven’t seen a company convincingly demonstrate that this affects them at all. Lots of fluff but nothing compelling. But I have seen many examples by individuals, including myself.

For years I’ve loved poking at video game dev for fun. The main problem has always been art assets. I’m terrible at art and I have a budget of about $0. So I get asset packs off Itch.io and they generally drive the direction of my games because I get what I get (and I don’t get upset). But that’s changed dramatically this year. I’ll spend an hour working through graphics design and generation and then I’ll have what I need. I tweak as I go. So now I can have assets for whatever game I’m thinking of.

Mind you this is barrier to entry. These are shovelware quality assets and I’m not running a business. But now I’m some guy on the internet who can fulfil a hobby of his and develop a skill. Who knows, maybe one day I’ll hit a goldmine idea and commit some real money to it and get a real artist to help!

It reminds me of what GarageBand or iMovie and YouTube and such did for making music and videos so accessible to people who didn’t go to school for any of that, let alone owned complex equipment or expensive licenses to Adobe Thisandthat.

nostrademons · 3 months ago
I've noticed this as well. It's a huge boon for startups, because it means that a lot of functions that you would previously need to hire specialists for (logo design! graphic design! programming! copywriting!) can now be brought in-house, where the founder just does a "good enough" job using AI. And for those that can't (legal, for example, or various SaaS vendors) the AI usually has a good idea of what services you'd want to engage.

Ironically though, having lots of people found startups is not good for startup founders, because it means more competition and a much harder time getting noticed. So its unclear that prosumers and startup founders will be the eventual beneficiary here either.

It would be ironic if AI actually ended up destroying economic activity because tasks that were frequently large-dollar-value transactions now become a consumer asking their $20/month AI to do it for them.

chii · 3 months ago
> ironic if AI actually ended up destroying economic activity

that's not destroying economic activity - it's removing a less efficient activity and replace it with a more efficient version. This produces economic surplus.

Imagine saying this for someone digging a hole, that if they use a mechanical digger instead of a hand shovel, they'd destroy economic activity since it now cost less to dig that hole!

bossyTeacher · 3 months ago
> I've noticed this as well. It's a huge boon for startups, because it means that a lot of functions that you would previously need to hire specialists for (logo design! graphic design! programming! copywriting!) can now be brought in-house, where the founder just does a "good enough" job using AI.

You are missing the other side of the story. All those customers, those AI boosted startups want to attract also have access to AI and so, rather than engage the services of those startups, they will find that AI does a good enough job. So those startups lost most of their customers, incoming layoffs :)

mnky9800n · 3 months ago
But if startups have less specialist needs they have less overall startup costs and so the amount of seed money needed goes down. This lowers the barrier for entry for a lot of people but also increases the number of options for seed capital. Of course it likely will increase competition but that could make the market more efficient.
tombert · 3 months ago
Yeah, that's how I feel about it as well.

For a large chunk of my life, I would start a personal project, get stuck on some annoying detail (e.g. the server gives some arcane error), get annoyed, and abandoned the project. I'm not being paid for this, and for unpaid work I have a pretty finite amount of patience.

With ChatGPT, a lot of the time I can simply copypaste the error and get it to give me ideas on paths forward. Sometimes it's right on the first try, often it's not, but it gives me something to do, and once I'm far enough along in the project I've developed enough momentum to stay inspired.

It still requires a lot of work on my end to do these projects, AI just helps with some of the initial hurdles.

czbond · 3 months ago
> For a large chunk of my life, I would start a personal project, get stuck on some annoying detail ...

I am the same way. I did Computer Science because it was a combination of philosophy and meta thinking. Then when I got out, it was mainly just low level errors, dependencies, and language nuance.

benoau · 3 months ago
Yep this is a huge enabler - previously having someone "do art" could easily cost you thousands for a small game, a month even, and this heavily constrained what you could make and locked you into what you had planned and how much you had planned. With AI if you want 2x or 5x or 10x as much art, audio etc it's an incremental cost if any, you can explore ideas, you can throw art out, pivot in new directions.
DrewADesign · 3 months ago
The only thing better than a substandard, derivative, inexpertly produced product is 10x more of it by 10x more people at the same time.
lifeformed · 3 months ago
I'd argue a game developer should make their own art assets, even if they "aren't an artist". You don't have to settle for it looking bad, just use your lack of art experience as a constraint. It usually means going with something very stylized or very simple. It might not be amazing but after you do it for a few games you will have pretty decent stuff, and most importantly, your own style.

Even amateurish art can be tasteful, and it can be its own intentional vibe. A lot of indie games go with a style that doesn't take much work to pull off decently. Sure, it may look amateurish, but it will have character and humanity behind it. Whereas AI art will look amateurish in a soul-deadening way.

Look at the game Baba Is You. It's a dead simple style that anyone can pull off, and it looks good. To be fair, even though it looks easy, it still takes a good artist/designer to come up with a seemingly simple style like that. But you can at least emulate their styles instead of coming up with something totally new, and in the process you'll better develop your aesthetic senses, which honestly will improve your journey as a game developer so much more than not having to "worry" about art.

risyachka · 3 months ago
It’s enabler for everyone, so you still don’t have any advantage just like you didn’t before that.

The only difference is you spend less on art but will spend same in other areas.

Literally nothing changed

KPGv2 · 3 months ago
> With AI if you want 2x or 5x or 10x as much art

Imagery

AI does not produce art.

Not that it matters to anyone but artists and art enjoyers.

iamacyborg · 3 months ago
> It reminds me of what GarageBand or iMovie and YouTube and such did for making music and videos so accessible to people who didn’t go to school for any of that, let alone owned complex equipment or expensive licenses to Adobe Thisandthat.

It’s worth reading William Deresiewicz‘ The Death of the Artist. I’m not entirely convinced that marketing that everyone can create art/games/whatever is actually a net positive result for those disciplines.

pixl97 · 3 months ago
>is actually a net positive result for those disciplines.

This is an argument based in Luddism.

Looms where not a net positive for the craftsman that were making fabrics at the time.

With that said, looms where not the killing blow, instead an economic system that lead them to starve in the streets was.

There are going to be a million other things that move the economics away from scarcity and take away the profitability. The question is, are we going to hold on to economic systems that don't work under that regime.

morkalork · 3 months ago
It shifted the signal to noise ratio but its not a net negative either. There's whole new genres of music that exist now because easy mixing tech is freely available. Do you or I like SoundCloud mumble rap? No, probably not. But there's enough people out there that do
taurath · 3 months ago
If people are making art to get rich and failing, it doesn’t kill artists, who’d be making art anyway, it kills the people trying to earn money from their art. Do we need Quad-A blockbuster Ubisoft/Bethesda/Sony/MS/Nintendo releases for their artistic merit, or their publishers/IP owners needs to make money off of it? Ditto the big4 movie studios. Those don’t really seem to matter very much. The whole idea of tastemakers, who they are and whether they should be trusted (indie v/s big studio, grass roots or intentionally cultivated) seems like it ebbs and flows. Right now I’d hate to be one of the bigs, because everything that made them a big is not working out anymore.
hackable_sand · 3 months ago
I make a rap album because anybody can

My contribution to this scam

Den_VR · 3 months ago
This reminds me of my preferred analogy: are digital artists real artists if they can’t mix pigment and skillfully apply them to canvas?

Not sure why digital artists get mad when I ask. They’re no Michelangelo.

SideburnsOfDoom · 3 months ago
> "AI" is that it seems to significantly reduce barriers to entry in many domains.

If you ask an LLM to generate some imagery, in what way have you entered visual arts?

If you ask an LLM to generate some music, in what way have you entered being a musician?

If you ask an LLM to generate some text, in what way have you entered writing?

RataNova · 3 months ago
Totally agree that what AI is doing right now feels more like the GarageBand/iMovie moment than the iPhone moment. It's democratizing creativity, not necessarily creating billion-dollar companies. And honestly, that's still a big deal
quantum2022 · 3 months ago
Yes, maybe what people create with it will be more basic. But is 'good enough' good enough? Will people pay for apps they can create on their own time for free using AI? There will be a huge disruption to the app marketplace unless apps are so much better than an AI could create it's worth the money. So short Apple? :) On the other hand, many, many more people will be creating apps and charging very little for them (because if it's not free or less than the value of my time, I'm building it on my own). This makes things better for everyone, and there'll still be a market for apps. So buy Apple? :)
oblio · 3 months ago
The thing is... Elbow grease makes the difference.

If you're just generating images using AI, you only get 80% there. You need at least to be able to touch up those images to get something outstanding.

Plus, is getting 1 billion bytes of randomness/entropy from your 1 thousand bytes of text input really <your> work?

deergomoo · 3 months ago
The difference is you still need to express creativity in your use of GarageBand and iMovie. There is nothing creative about typing "give me a picture of x doing y" into a form field.

Also, "democratizing"? Please. We're just entrenching more power into the small handful of companies who have been able to raise and set fire to unfathomable amounts of capital. Many of these tools may be free or cheap to use today, but there is nothing for the commons here.

IAmGraydon · 3 months ago
I'm wondering a good way to create 2D sprite sheets with transparency via AI. That would be a game changer, but my research has led me to believe that there isn't a good tool for this yet. One sprite is kind of doable, but a sprite animation with continuity between frames seems like it would be very difficult. Have you figured out a way to do this?
Waterluvian · 3 months ago
I think an important way to approach AI use is not to seek the end product directly. Don’t use it to do things that are procedurally trivial like cropping and colour palette changes, transparency, etc.

For transparency I just ask for a bright green or blue background then use GIMP.

For animations I get one frame I like and then ask for it to generate a walking cycle or whatnot. But usually I go for like… 3 frame cycles or 2 frame attacks and such. Because I’m not over reaching, hoping to make some salable end product. Just prototypes and toys, really.

LarsDu88 · 3 months ago
I was literally experimenting with this today.

Use Google Nano Banana to generate your sprite with a magenta background, then ask it to generate the final frame of the animation you want to create.

Then use Google Flow to create an animation between the two frames with Veo3

Its astoundingly effective, but still rather laborious and lacking in ergonomics. For example the video aspect ratio has to be fixed, and you need to manually fill the correct shade of magenta for transparency keying since the imagen model does not do this perfectly.

IMO Veo3 is good enough to make sprites and animations for an 2000s 2D RTS game in seconds from a basic image sketch and description. It just needs a purpose built UI for gamedev workflows.

If I was not super busy with family and work, I'd build a wrapper around these tools

larrry · 3 months ago
I’ve been building up animations for a main character sprite. I’m hoping one day AI can help me make small changes quickly (apply different hairstyles mainly). So far I haven’t seen anything promising either.

Otherwise I have to touch up a hundred or so images manually for each different character style… probably not worth it

lelanthran · 3 months ago
I dont use AI for image generation so I dont know how possible this is, but why not generate a 3D model for blender to ingest, then grab 2D frames from the model for the animation?
Gigachad · 3 months ago
It's good for prototypes, where you want to test the core gameplay ideas without investing a ton early on. But you're going to have to replace those assets with real ones before going live because people will notice.
raincole · 3 months ago
People will notice and still buy it if your game has done something else right. Source:

https://www.totallyhuman.io/blog/the-surprising-new-number-o...

Havoc · 3 months ago
Yeah that seems accurate.

I mainly use AI for selfhosting/homelab stuff and the leverage there is absolutely wild - basically knows "everything".

ta12653421 · 3 months ago
Regarding assets, check out Nano Banana:

https://github.com/PicoTrex/Awesome-Nano-Banana-images/blob/...

For you the example of "extract object and create iso model" should be relevant :)

catlifeonmars · 3 months ago
I have a similar problem (available assets drive/limit game dev). What is your workflow like for generative game assets?
Waterluvian · 3 months ago
It’s really nothing special. I don’t do this a lot.

Generally I have an idea I’ve written down some time ago, usually from a bad pun like Escape Goat (CEO wants to blame it all on you. Get out of the office without getting caught! Also you’re a goat) or Holmes on Homes Deck Building Deck Building Game (where you build a deck of tools and lumber and play hazards to be the first to build a deck). Then I come up with a list of card ideas. I iterate with GPT to make the card images. I prototype out the game. I put it all together and through that process figure out more cards and change things. A style starts to emerge so I replace some with new ones of that style.

I use GIMP to resize and crop and flip and whatnot. I usually ask GPT how to do these tasks as photoshop like apps always escape me.

The end result ends up online and I share them with friends for a laugh or two and usually move on.

poszlem · 3 months ago
I introduced my mother to Suno, a tool for music generation, and now she creates hundreds of little songs for herself and her friends. It may not be great art, but it’s something she always wanted to do. She never found the time to learn an instrument, and now she finally gets to express herself in a way she loves. Just an additional data point.
cjbarber · 3 months ago
Yes! Barrier to entry down, competition goes up, barrier to being a standout goes up (but, many things are now accessible to more people because some can get started that couldn't before).

Easier to start, harder to stand out. More competition, a more effective "sort" (a la patio11).

silenced_trope · 3 months ago
I'm also a hobbyist gamedev that struggles with the art side. Can I ask what AI tools you've been using most?
mallowdram · 3 months ago
The genericizing of aesthetics is far more cost than benefit. This is a completely false claim: "reducing barriers to entry" if the barrier includes the progression of creativity. Once the addict of AI becomes entranced to genericized assets, it deforms the cost-benefit.

If we take high-level creativity and deform, really horizontalize the forms, they have a much higher cost, as experience become generic.

AI was a complete failure of imagination.

sixtyj · 3 months ago
Easy entry not equals getting rich.
Cthulhu_ · 3 months ago
In fact one could argue it makes it harder; if the barrier to entry for making video games is lowered, more people will do it, and there's more competiton.

But in the case of video games there's been similar things already happening; tooling, accessible and free game engines, online tutorials, ready-made assets etc have lowered the barrier to building games, and the internet, Steam, itch.io, etcetera have lowered the barrier to publishing them.

Compare that to when Doom was made (as an example because it's a good source), Carmack had to learn 3d rendering and making it run fast from the scientific text books, they needed a publisher to invest in them so they could actually start working on it fulltime, and they needed to have diskettes with the game or its shareware version manufactured and distributed. And that was when part was already going through BBS.

_DeadFred_ · 3 months ago
Something like 200,000 new songs are uploaded to music services every day because tech lowered the barrier to entry. How's that working? Lots and lots of new rich musicians?
WalterBright · 3 months ago
I enjoy using AI generated art for my presentations.
awjlogan · 3 months ago
I chuckled seeing it in the first presentation of the conference. By the end of the conference, it was numbingly banal.
zwnow · 3 months ago
Funny how everyone is just okay with the basis for all this art being stolen art by actual humans. Zero sense of ethics.
hyperbovine · 3 months ago
Not clear that being able to sample from a distribution == stealing.
cactusplant7374 · 3 months ago
I have been doing the exact same thing with assets and also it has helped me immensely with mobile development.

I am also starting to get a feel for generating animated video and am planning to release a children’s series. It’s actually quite difficult to write a prompt that gets you exactly what you want. Hopefully that improves.

kristianc · 3 months ago
> Yet some technological innovations, though societally transformative, generate little in the way of new wealth; instead, they reinforce the status quo. Fifteen years before the microprocessor, another revolutionary idea, shipping containerization, arrived at a less propitious time, when technological advancement was a Red Queen’s race, and inventors and investors were left no better off for non-stop running.

This collapses an important distinction. The containerization pioneers weren’t made rich - that’s correct, Malcolm McLean, the shipping magnate who pioneered containerization didn’t die a billionaire. It did however generate enormous wealth through downstream effects by underpinning the rise of East Asian export economies, offshoring, and the retail models of Walmart, Amazon and the like. Most of us are much more likely to benefit from downstream structural shifts of AI rather than owning actual AI infrastructure.

This matters because building the models, training infrastructure, and data centres is capital-intensive, brutally competitive, and may yield thin margins in the long run. The real fortunes are likely to flow to those who can reconfigure industries around the new cost curve.

dash2 · 3 months ago
The article's point is exactly that you should invest downstream of AI.
th0ma5 · 3 months ago
The problem is different though, the containers were able to be made by others and offered dependable success, and anything downstream of model creators is at the whim of the model creator... And so far it seems not much that one model can do that another can't, so this all doesn't bode well for a reliable footing to determine what value, if at all, can be added by anyone for very long.
RataNova · 3 months ago
AI's already showing hints of the same pattern. The infrastructure arms race is fascinating to watch, but it's not where most of the durable value will live
unleaded · 3 months ago
Something that's confused/annoyed me about the AI boom is that it's like we've learned to run before we learned to walk. For example, there are countless websites where you can generate a sophisticated, photorealistic image of anything you like, but there is no tool I know of that you can ask "give me a 16x16 PNG icon of an apple" and get exactly that. I know why—Neural networks excel at fixed size, organic data, but I don't think that makes it any less ridiculous. It also means that AI website generators are forced to generate assets with code when ordinary people would just use images/sound files (yes, I have really seen websites using webaudio synths for sound effects).

Hopefully the boom will slow down and we'll all slowly move away from Holy Shit Hype things and implement more boring, practical things. (although I feel like the world has shunned boring practical things for quite a while before)

SquibblesRedux · 3 months ago
I just asked ChatGPT-5 to "give me a 16x16 PNG icon of an apple" and it did exactly that. It looks good, too.

Not that I don't recognize the inherent limits of LLMs, but there are as many edge cases covered as are found in the training sets. (More or less.)

unleaded · 3 months ago
well i just asked it the same thing and it gave me a 1MB 1024x1024 png with fringed edges & sensor noise that measures out to a 17x21 pixel image. https://files.catbox.moe/1q4jtp.png

In the time it would take to keep retrying until it makes one that fits, then reshaping it to fit into 16x16 nicely I could have just drawn one myself.

qwertygnu · 3 months ago
As you seem to understand, creating something that generally fits a description is the walking for AI. Following exact directions is the running. It may just feel reversed because of the path of other technology.
HarHarVeryFunny · 3 months ago
I would imagine AI will be similar to factory automation.

There will be millions of factories all benefiting from it, and a relatively small number of companies providing the automation components (conveyor belt systems, vision/handling systems, industrial robots, etc).

The technology providers are not going to become fabulously rich though as long as there is competition. Early adopters will have to pay up, but it seems LLMs are shaping up to be a commodity where inference cost will be the most important differentiator, and future generations of AI are likely to be the same.

Right now the big AI companies pumping billions into it to advance the bleeding edge necessarily have the most advanced products, but the open source and free-weight competition are continually nipping at their heels and it seems the current area where most progress is happening is agents and reasoning/research systems, not the LLMs themself, where it's more about engineering rather than who has the largest training cluster.

We're still in the first innings of AI though - the LLM era, which I don't think is going to last for that long. New architectures and incremental learning algorithms for AGI will come next. It may take a few generations of advance to get to AGI, and the next generation (e.g. what DeepMind are planning in 5-10 year time frame) may still include a pre-trained LLM as a component, but it seems that it'll be whatever is built around the LLM, to take us to that next level of capability, that will become the focus.

xnx · 3 months ago
AI could've made someone unimaginably rich if they were the only one that had it. We're very lucky Google didn't keep "Attention is All You Need" to themselves.
back2dafucha · 3 months ago
I doubt we'll feel that way in 5 years.
echelon · 3 months ago
Because now they're keeping everything to themselves?
pizzly · 3 months ago
I think OP's thesis should be expanded.

-AI is leading to cost optimizations for running existing companies, this will lead to less employment and potentially cheaper products. Less people employed temporary will change demand side economics, cheaper operating costs will reduce supply/cost side

-The focus should not just be on LLM's (like in the article). I think LLMs have shown what artificial neural networks are capable of, from material discovery, biological simulation, protein discovery, video generation, image generation, etc. This isn't just creating a cheaper, more efficient way of shipping goods around the world, its creating new classifications of products like the microcontroller invention did.

-The barrier to start businesses is less. A programmer not good at making art can use genAI to make a game. More temporary unemployment from existing companies reducing cost by automating existing work flows may mean that more people will start their own businesses. There will be more diverse products available but will demand be able to sustain the cost of living of these new founders? Human attention, time etc is limited and their may be less money around with less employment but the products themselves should cost cheaper.

-I think people still underestimate what last year/s LLMs and AI models are capable of and what opportunities they open up, Open source models (even if not as good as the latest gen), hardware able to run these open source models becoming cheaper and more capable means many opportunities to tinker with models to create new products in new categories independent of being reliant on the latest gen model providers. Much like people tinkering with microcontrollers in the garage in the early days as the article mentioned.

Based on the points above alone while certain industries (think phone call centers) will be in the red queen race scenario like the OP stated there will new industries unthought of open up creating new wealth for many people.

chongli · 3 months ago
Red Queen Race scenario is already in effect for a lot of businesses, especially video games. GenAI making it easier to make games will ultimately make it harder to succeed in games, not easier. We’re already at a point where the market is so saturated with high quality games that new entrants find it extremely hard to gain traction.
franktankbank · 3 months ago
Imagine a giant trawling net scooping up the last two-three decades undeprecated of work on the web/data/game/operating system space and cutting out the people who did all that work. What do you think is going to happen to the progression in those areas? I guess it was "done"? The LLM AI is only as good as its input, as far as I can tell there is no reason to believe any of its second order outputs. RLHF is an interesting plug for that hole but its only as good as the human feedback and even then those things taken to second order aren't going to be any good. This collapses the barrier to entry to existing products, aka those people are going to be swamped with new competition.
autoexec · 3 months ago
> AI is leading to cost optimizations for running existing companies, this will lead to less employment and potentially cheaper products.

There's zero change that cost optimizations for existing companies will lead to cheaper products. It will only result in higher profits while companies continue to charge as much as they possibly can for their products while delivering as little as they can possibly get away with.

CM30 · 3 months ago
Practically speaking, it's going to be both more impactful than we think and less impactful than we think at the same time.

On the one hand, there are a lot of fields that this form of AI can and will either replace or significantly reduce the number of jobs in. Entry level web development and software engineering is at serious risk, as is copywriting, design and art for corporate clients, research assistant roles and a lot of grunt work in various creative fields. If the output of your work is heavily represented in these models, or the quality of the output matters less than having something, ANYTHING to fill a gap on a page/in an app, then you're probably in trouble. If your work involves collating a bunch of existing resources, then you're probably in trouble.

At the same time, it's not going to be anywhere near as powerful as certain companies think. AI can help software engineers in generating boilerplate code or setup things that others have done millions of times before, but the quality of its output for new tasks is questionable at best, especially when the language or framework isn't heavily represented in the model. And any attempts to replace things like lawyers, doctors or other such professions with AI alone are probably doomed to fail, at least for the moment. If getting things wrong is a dealbreaker that will result in severe legal consequences, AI will never be able to entirely replace humans in that field.

Basically, AI is great for grunt work, and fields where the actual result doesn't need to be perfect (or even good). It's not a good option for anything with actual consequences for screwing up, or where the knowledge needed is specialist enough that the model won't contain it.

HPsquared · 3 months ago
The title is a false dichotomy. It could be a net gain but spread across the whole society if the value added is not concentrated.

This is what happens when users gain value which they themselves capture, and the AI companies only get the nominal $20/month or whatever. In those cases it's a net gain for the economy as a whole if valuable work was done at low cost.

The inverse of the broken window fallacy.

Deleted Comment

mattmanser · 3 months ago
Like all tech we've had recently, that won't last, it's always bait and switch.

It will not remain cheap as soon as the competition is dead, which is simply a case of who's got the biggest VC supplied war chest.

kasey_junk · 3 months ago
Like with databases? There are none of those freely available now that Oracle won right?