I still don't really understand this story. I know that ICE invaded the factory and detained a few hundred people. They were vanished away and presumably being speedily sent back to Korea. Sure.
But every article I've read on this makes no statement about whether any of these hundreds of people were actually working without an appropriate visa, or whether they were given the chance to demonstrate their legitimacy, or whether any of these hundreds of people got to defend their case to a judge. Shouting "I'm here legally" while being rounded up by LEOs is not due process.
I'm not particularly sympathetic to Hyundai here, and it wouldn't be surprising if they subcontracted a sublegal operation to cut costs. But in a group of a few hundred people it's quite hard to imagine none of them have cases even worth hearing.
> But every article I've read on this makes no statement about whether any of these hundreds of people were actually working without an appropriate visa
This is because ICE is being particularly tight lipped about those details.
The New York Times got their hands on the records for 11 detainees.
6 on B1/B2 visas.
4 on 90-day waivers.
1 Unknown.
ICE claims visa violations, but the records do not state what work the detainees were actually doing. This is especially relevant for the B1 visas, which do permit certain business activities (including applicable ones for this situation; Meetings, trainings, "installation, service, and repair of foreign-bought machinery".
Of particular note is that in one case (out of these 11), ICE's records state there was no visa violation. The worker was deported anyway, forced into a "voluntary" departure.
Personal opinion: The degree to which hyundai may or may not have violated the law or operated within previously-tolerated gray areas remains to be seen. But the actions of ICE here are not those of a competent government organisation.
There should be clear records, they should be able to readily answer press questions. And yet they don't.
Worse still is that one person deported despite there being, even by ICE's own admission, no visa violation. Hard to assume good faith in incomplete or withheld records with such shit going on.
And what are other foreign companies to do with this? "Move your manufacturing to America! Oh btw even if you follow all laws to the letter a local chud may deport your workers for being not white enough and ruin the entire project" is an interesting sales pitch.
The point is not to be effective (at the stated goals), or follow the laws, or be competent at following the laws.
The goal is to ‘look tough’ for the base, demonstrate the power to act without having to follow the laws, and overall - inspire fear. To extract concessions and inspire fear based loyalty.
The weirdest part to me is that people still don’t seem to understand this?
> whether any of these hundreds of people got to defend their case to a judge. Shouting "I'm here legally" while being rounded up by LEOs is not due process.
Well, no, but that's not how US immigration works any more, and never did at the border. Everyone very loudly points out that non-citizens don't have constitutional rights.
As a UK employee of a US multinational (+), I think I know what happened here, because it nearly happened to a colleague of mine. He went to visit HQ for a week, and made the mistake of saying at the border that he was coming to "work" rather than "business meetings". Non-visa travel generally allows the latter but not the former, even if the distinction isn't always clear.
It seems ludicrous that someone doing the same job for the same employer on the same IT systems suddenly becomes a criminal if they bring themselves and their laptop to HQ for a few days, and up until now this was always waived, along with simply observing that the person had a return ticket and a hotel. Now there's a much bigger risk if you say the "w" word.
I suspect what happens is that Hyundai sent over a bunch of Hyundai employees to get the Hyundai factory started, as everyone would expect, without going through the difficult and expensive process of securing short term work visas (which catgegory would this be anyway?)
(+) I suppose this makes me the evil offshoring taking all your jobs? Hi guys.
>Everyone very loudly points out that non-citizens don't have constitutional rights
I'm assuming you mean at the border (crossings/airports), the same thing applies to citizens, under the excuse that their citizenship hasn't been verified until they're through immigration.
Though I cannot say it adds much clarity. Apparently, some people caught in the raid may have had valid visas. Unsurprisingly, the whole thing sounds like a poorly planned mess.
> I'm not particularly sympathetic to Hyundai here, and it wouldn't be surprising if they subcontracted a sublegal operation to cut costs
Often Visa systems are overly complex and it's just a matter of bureaucracy making things impossible within a particular timeline. My cynical lens on this is that someone with a vested interest (like a competing company or a lobbyist from a competing industry) that has the ear of the administration has made this happen.
All the same, I imagine this only worsens the risk assessment for the US as a place of investment and business.
> My cynical lens on this is that someone with a vested interest (like a competing company or a lobbyist from a competing industry) that has the ear of the administration has made this happen.
You don't need to go that far. Simple incompetence, cruelty, a complete lack of accountability and a need to meet quota is a sufficient explanation.
Like maybe someone other than Hyundai that makes electric cars? Reports said this raid took months to plan. Who had the president's ear a few months ago?
I mean, it would be surprising. In what world does Hyundai want to build a multi billion dollar plant in a foreign country and subcontract to a 'sublegal operation' which still has to send foreign nationals, presumably experts in their specific fields along with housing them to 'cut costs'...?
If you start enforcing Labour laws for everyone that is sent between multi nationals a lot of economic activity will simply cease. Do you think every American going abroad for their company has all the right paperwork? If you don’t let Mr Kim who is the only guy who knows how to rig some robots together in because he said something naughty about Trump on Facebook once you will have to build your own factories
I mean, yes, I would hope they have the right paperwork? E.g. if you're going on a business trip then you're going to need a visa allowing business trips, if you're going to work you're going to need a visa that allows work, etc. I don't see why this is unreasonable.
If it is unreasonable then the rules need to change - no point having rules if they can't be enforced.
disclaimer: i'm native korean (living in south korea also)
> whether any of these hundreds of people were actually working without an appropriate visa
IIRC It appears that many of those arrested entered the country using ESTA which is tourism purposes only. They are likely subcontractors of this company.
> It's quite hard to imagine none of them have cases even worth hearing
I think it's due to the related investigation was conducted quickly, as most of them entered the country for the same purpose.
It feels like something very shady, is going on with Hyundai, but in order to say face, they keep pointing the finger back at the Americans. Someone on their end made a tremendous mistake, and I think they need to just accept that and admit it.
That's quite an insult! I wonder how many foreign workers (or foreigners in general) take the eventuality of getting "randomly" detained into account while travelling into USA.
As someone from Europe (the Netherlands), it is an important reason for me to no longer consider to travel to the USA. The idea of the possibility to be deported to a prison facility in South America or Africa, with no due process is simply terrifying.
I would strongly advice any fellow countrymen not to travel to the USA, especially if they are not 'pure' white. There are many Dutch with Dutch parents that are not 'pure' white, because they have a Chinese, an Indonesian, a Caribbean, an Italian, a Spanish, a Moroccan, or a Turkish ancestor (to mention just some possibilities).
It's definitely a growing concern, coworkers visiting their home countries have been half-jokingly saying "see you in X weeks, assuming everything goes fine at the border" and even US citizens and permanent residents are being strongly encouraged to plan out contingencies (remote work, what to say to maybe be able to contact the immigration attorney if detained etc) with the company before leaving, just in case.
I do. Never been to US since the Patriot act, a have a several-million dollars small startup and would love to see Colorado and California, why not move there, but I’m just afraid of TSA.
On the other hand, I envy USA for enforcing their visas. Europe follows American criminality stats by 10 years, so when we used to mock USA for George Floyd, we’re now in it; for Korean shop owners, we’re now in it; For random knives in busses, we’re in it, and with school shootings, it’s just a matter of time until it happens.
And European people are much farther away from reaching the conclusion that law must be enforced in multicultural nations.
I think Korea has been asking for something like the temporary nafta/USMCA visa that lets people in approved specialties work in neighbouring countries on a temporary basis.
Readit News
Totally hurting her community.
<https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/meet-the-woman-claiming-to...>
They were looking for 4 latinos, but then decided to arrest almost 500 workers, most of them Koreans - highly skilled technicians.
And the pictures of them being shackled in full body chains as if they were dangerous criminals is absolutely insulting and degrading.
This is not how you attract investment.
But every article I've read on this makes no statement about whether any of these hundreds of people were actually working without an appropriate visa, or whether they were given the chance to demonstrate their legitimacy, or whether any of these hundreds of people got to defend their case to a judge. Shouting "I'm here legally" while being rounded up by LEOs is not due process.
I'm not particularly sympathetic to Hyundai here, and it wouldn't be surprising if they subcontracted a sublegal operation to cut costs. But in a group of a few hundred people it's quite hard to imagine none of them have cases even worth hearing.
This is because ICE is being particularly tight lipped about those details.
The New York Times got their hands on the records for 11 detainees. 6 on B1/B2 visas. 4 on 90-day waivers. 1 Unknown.
ICE claims visa violations, but the records do not state what work the detainees were actually doing. This is especially relevant for the B1 visas, which do permit certain business activities (including applicable ones for this situation; Meetings, trainings, "installation, service, and repair of foreign-bought machinery".
Of particular note is that in one case (out of these 11), ICE's records state there was no visa violation. The worker was deported anyway, forced into a "voluntary" departure.
(https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/12/business/economy/hyundai-...)
Personal opinion: The degree to which hyundai may or may not have violated the law or operated within previously-tolerated gray areas remains to be seen. But the actions of ICE here are not those of a competent government organisation.
There should be clear records, they should be able to readily answer press questions. And yet they don't.
Worse still is that one person deported despite there being, even by ICE's own admission, no visa violation. Hard to assume good faith in incomplete or withheld records with such shit going on.
And what are other foreign companies to do with this? "Move your manufacturing to America! Oh btw even if you follow all laws to the letter a local chud may deport your workers for being not white enough and ruin the entire project" is an interesting sales pitch.
The goal is to ‘look tough’ for the base, demonstrate the power to act without having to follow the laws, and overall - inspire fear. To extract concessions and inspire fear based loyalty.
The weirdest part to me is that people still don’t seem to understand this?
Then, when these places stay poor, they'll blame foreign governments, Democrats, "bureaucrats in DC", "woke" policies, etc. Rinse and repeat.
Deleted Comment
Well, no, but that's not how US immigration works any more, and never did at the border. Everyone very loudly points out that non-citizens don't have constitutional rights.
As a UK employee of a US multinational (+), I think I know what happened here, because it nearly happened to a colleague of mine. He went to visit HQ for a week, and made the mistake of saying at the border that he was coming to "work" rather than "business meetings". Non-visa travel generally allows the latter but not the former, even if the distinction isn't always clear.
It seems ludicrous that someone doing the same job for the same employer on the same IT systems suddenly becomes a criminal if they bring themselves and their laptop to HQ for a few days, and up until now this was always waived, along with simply observing that the person had a return ticket and a hotel. Now there's a much bigger risk if you say the "w" word.
I suspect what happens is that Hyundai sent over a bunch of Hyundai employees to get the Hyundai factory started, as everyone would expect, without going through the difficult and expensive process of securing short term work visas (which catgegory would this be anyway?)
(+) I suppose this makes me the evil offshoring taking all your jobs? Hi guys.
I'm assuming you mean at the border (crossings/airports), the same thing applies to citizens, under the excuse that their citizenship hasn't been verified until they're through immigration.
Though I cannot say it adds much clarity. Apparently, some people caught in the raid may have had valid visas. Unsurprisingly, the whole thing sounds like a poorly planned mess.
https://www.economist.com/united-states/2025/09/10/the-ice-r...
> I'm not particularly sympathetic to Hyundai here, and it wouldn't be surprising if they subcontracted a sublegal operation to cut costs
Often Visa systems are overly complex and it's just a matter of bureaucracy making things impossible within a particular timeline. My cynical lens on this is that someone with a vested interest (like a competing company or a lobbyist from a competing industry) that has the ear of the administration has made this happen.
All the same, I imagine this only worsens the risk assessment for the US as a place of investment and business.
You don't need to go that far. Simple incompetence, cruelty, a complete lack of accountability and a need to meet quota is a sufficient explanation.
If it is unreasonable then the rules need to change - no point having rules if they can't be enforced.
> whether any of these hundreds of people were actually working without an appropriate visa
IIRC It appears that many of those arrested entered the country using ESTA which is tourism purposes only. They are likely subcontractors of this company.
> It's quite hard to imagine none of them have cases even worth hearing
I think it's due to the related investigation was conducted quickly, as most of them entered the country for the same purpose.
The ESTA home page says it's business or pleasure. The catch is it's only for trips up to 90 days.
They were found pouring concrete, fitting pipe, and other labor that needed a work visa to perform.
If they hired local union guys or did paperwork for one of the eleven types of work visas, then no issue with ICE.
I would strongly advice any fellow countrymen not to travel to the USA, especially if they are not 'pure' white. There are many Dutch with Dutch parents that are not 'pure' white, because they have a Chinese, an Indonesian, a Caribbean, an Italian, a Spanish, a Moroccan, or a Turkish ancestor (to mention just some possibilities).
Absolutely every canadian crossing at a land border. The steady number of horror stories is keeping them away.
(Air travel is less impacted as canadian pre-clearance proceedures mean anyone rejected by ICE will not also be detained by them.)
Deleted Comment
On the other hand, I envy USA for enforcing their visas. Europe follows American criminality stats by 10 years, so when we used to mock USA for George Floyd, we’re now in it; for Korean shop owners, we’re now in it; For random knives in busses, we’re in it, and with school shootings, it’s just a matter of time until it happens.
And European people are much farther away from reaching the conclusion that law must be enforced in multicultural nations.
Crime committed by the police.
> Korean shop owners
What's criminal about Korean shops?
> school shootings
Gun control means no more school shootings. See Dunblane.
> law must be enforced in multicultural nations
Nobody ever said it shouldn't, but it has to be enforced in a fair and even-handed way.
per usual it's the other cultures causing the fuss, right.
Dead Comment