> As far as I can tell, the major booking portals for tickets are all basically the same. I’ve been using Orbitz for a long time
This is really bad advice. You should search using a flight search engine like Google Flights, not a single OTA, and book directly with the airline unless an OTA has a much, much better deal. The $10 that Orbitz might sometimes save you comes at the cost of having to talk to their customer service, not the airline’s, if you want to change your trip.
I have heard it also puts you in a better position when an airline is bumping passengers or carry-on luggage, though the soft rules are always changing, so I don't know if this is still the case (or ever was.)
Depending on the region, you can get a pretty hefty payout for getting bumped, if you know what paperwork to file (even if they get you a hotel and later flight). Terrible if you have plans, not bad if you're backpacking like in my case.
This is also true of hotels. If the hotel is overbooked they will “walk” the third party booked people first and keep their reward members / first party booked people happy
Google Flights search is irredeemably broken for long international business-class flights, and I've tried a few times over the years to get someone there to give a shit, and they will not.
Example: You search for a flight from YWG to BKK in business, and it wants to route you YWG-YVR-KIX-BKK, which is basically fine. The flight time from YWG-YVR is under 3 hours, so it'll show you fares where that leg is in Economy, but YVR-KIX is in business, which is also, fundamentally, fine, although it would be nice to filter that. A short hop being Economy to get you on to the long leg in Business is usually acceptable. HOWEVER, it will ALSO show you fares where KIX-BKK (a 6 hour flight) are in Economy, and it won't allow you to filter this, so this messes up any ability to sensibly filter flights by price. If I am searching for a flight in Business, please allow me to filter out ones where *9 hours* of that flight is actually in Economy.</rant>
I imagine you could quickly build your own browser extension that parses all visible segments and hides cards where any individual leg exceeds your economy/business threshold. I successfully vibe coded a solution to a different Google flights problem in about 10 minutes.
They're all pretty much the same? Going from somewhere, to somewhere, at a date and time. Passenger info, payment info, book.
Every airline wants tech-incompetent grannies to buy their tickets, therefore the UI is simple enough that any HN reader should be able to trivially navigate it.
> I almost always book the minimum flight, basic economy, whether or not I am paying. There is so little to be gained from moving up compared to the price.
I recently had a five month period where I took a plane ride every single week for work. A “frequent traveler” so to speak.
To me, the big difference between basic economy and regular is the ability to cancel (for a credit) up until the flight takes off. When you travel once in a while, this isn’t worth that much. When you travel every week, it’s huge. For example, when I travel (round trip) 3-5 times a year (which is my normal cadence), I’m not gonna really care if I booked an 8pm flight but last minute decided that I have time to get on a 6pm. An extra two hours not-at-home is no big deal, maybe even a good thing. When you travel every week, the ability to change later minute is huge (and contrary to popular belief, I found that it is often the case that last minute flights are the same price or cheaper, depending on the route, though it can also be wildly more expensive).
In addition to changing my mind about when to leave, don’t get me started on delays. If I saw my flight was delayed two hours (which often means that it’ll end up cancelling or taking off 6 hours late), I’d immediately book an alternative (if I could find one at a decent price) and then cancel one of them right before departure.
Aside from this, seat selection is important, especially if you travel a lot (the lifestyle is hard enough to begin with). You can usually buy seats in basic economy and the whole thing will be cheaper, but assuming you are going to do that, then the difference is gonna be $25-30 which is basically the “right to cancel” fee.
Economists call this type of pricing strategy price discrimination. Basically you have a different marginal willingness to pay than others because of your frequency.
If you travel every week for work, I would be booking full fare (refundable), not non-basic restricted fares. Especially since if you are booking inside a week of departure the difference is not that great anyway.
>If you travel every week for work, I would be booking full fare (refundable), not non-basic restricted fares.
Why? I don’t fly that much, especially for work, and I’ve never had a problem getting to use my credits from cancelling flights. The price difference between credit-refundable and full refundable is usually significant and doesn’t offer me anything.
If something is happening in my life where I can’t use my airline credit within a year, I’ve got bigger issues. Even then at least with Delta, you just have to book a flight using the credit before it expires - and the flight can be after the credit would have expired - wait 24 hours cancel the ticket and then receive a new credit that resets the timer.
Isn’t the biggest difference the ability to bring a carry-on suitcase? I’ve always found that immediately and categorically disqualifying for basic economy. There’s never been a situation where I could fly somewhere with just the clothes on my back.
Only the budget carriers like Frontier and Spirit charge extra for carry on. Even the second tier airlines like JetBlue and Southwest don’t charge for carry ons.
The issue is boarding priority and you may not have overhead space and still be forced to gate check your carry on (for free).
In the case of Delta, it’s a combination of not being able to choose your seat, no refunds or airline credit for canceling or changing your flight and no miles earned toward future flights.
are flight delays common in the US?
ive been flying very regularly primarily around Asia for around a decade. (every 2 months or so) and ive never had a flight delayed more than hour (last minute at the gate always) anything longer.. i could only imagine it happening if there was a typhoon or something
Mechanical difficulties, weather esp. snow, air traffic control hold on incoming flights, etc. I wouldn't say >1 hr. delays were necessarily common but they're not rare either.
In my experience it depends on the route. I use SFO a lot and delays are quite common there because the they get a lot of fog and their runways are too close together for regulation to allow use of adjacent runways under bad visibility.
"The food at the airport is not ideal, and it is more expensive than usual"
This one really bothers me. The Portland airport mandates all food prices to be the same as at the businesses off-airport locations. As a passenger that makes it really great. As a free-market worshipper I have some concerns about this but it seems to work really well in practice and we get excellent options. Unfortunately, other airports don't rely on free-market competition to result in great offerings either but instead usually have most vendors operated by the same concession company like HMSHost, SSP Group. This gives a captive audience to a quasi-monopolist. It's the easiest situation to avoid a monopoly or cartel situation and foster competition, yet most airports seem to either be operated by people who don't care, crooks or idiots.
Free market in a location owned by the government where the government gets to control who the vendors are and what the customers are allowed to bring in? Thats not a free market to begin with.
Just because the venue is owned by one entity doesn't mean you cannot have competition between tenants. In fact venue owner could take competition in consideration when choosing a new tenant. This would be what the Chinese government does with their catfish effect philosophy (https://www.worldscientific.com/doi/abs/10.1142/S02184958960...).
> As a free-market worshipper I have some concerns about this
But it's the government (via the TSA) that gates not only customers, but also the employees (as they must at least be able to pass through the TSA, though admittedly the bar isn't tremendously high), and at government-owned airports, they control the tenants / shops as well
To call it a free market misses all kinds of behind the scenes details
My local Canadian international airport mandates food vendors and restaurants all be staffed by one food service company. So even though past security we have one of our good local coffee shops, the price is inflated AND also they make terrible coffee from automated machines made by untrained staff.
I remember sitting, as I did so often at the time, in an airport lounge. This was Rotterdam on a dark evening, in the single story building on the edge of an airfield. I looked around and there were 5 or 6 men, all sitting alone in disheveled suits looking lost and miserable. I thought "poor sods". Then I looked at myself.
As someone who is 6' 3" paying more for economy premium absolutely makes sense. I get that others might not see the value but I enjoy not having my knees smashed. You also get off the plane faster which can matter for connections.
Get an airline credit card for one based in your city and checked bags are no longer a cost. Aside from a few minutes to drop and pick up. Usually there are other perks like food and beverage discounts on the plane, etc. I fly to the Caribbean once a year on the miles we accumulate.
My recent revelation as a frequent flyer is that it's really nice to have a tablet. I had long shunned them as an awkward step between laptop and phone, but using laptops is forbidden during taxi,takeoff, and landing.
Unlike the in-seat entertainment, the movie on a personal tablet won't be interrupted by announcements which I almost never want to hear.
Traveling is mostly what I find the tablet use case to be. I find it useful relatively rarely at home. I try and then I just end up grabbing an older laptop from the dining room.
If you want to spend most of your time reading, a Kindle may have advantages but I'm more inclined to travel with a tablet. The newer magnetic keyboards are actually pretty good but I'm at fewer conferences and the like these days where I'm taking notes and I actually have found that I've adapted to just using a phone for many purposes.
> The newer magnetic keyboards are actually pretty good
What I think I would really like is a detachable keyboard with laptop-style hinges (and maybe a secondary battery). There seem to be a few devices from about a decade ago with that kind of design but they died out in favor of flexible connectors and kickstands.
Having a kitchen tablet is also amazing - I have a ten year old iPad Pro with the keyboard, it's great for looking up recipes and following along, and also messaging while cooking.
As a laptop user, the thing that grinds my gears is how early they will force me to stow it away. Sometimes 20+ minutes before we are obviously descending.
“I almost always book the minimum flight, basic economy, whether or not I am paying. There is so little to be gained from moving up compared to the price.”
Perhaps I’m too precious but economy class is awful compared to business class. Lie-flat seats are a significant improvement over economy. If you are spending your own money, sure, stick to economy so you can spend your money on other things that are more important to you… but someone else’s money? What conceivable reason is there to choose economy if someone else is paying.
> What conceivable reason is there to choose economy if someone else is paying.
Not taking advantage of someone else's generosity.
If that's not good enough, don't think the someone else doesn't notice being taken advantage of. They won't say anything, but in the future you may be "overlooked" for other opportunities.
It's like asking for less than you need or could get when negotiating pay for a job or position.
One would think that the employer would recognize or remember this kind of “sacrifice.” Or that, somehow, asking for less money will lead to a more sympathetic judgment of what was accomplished. But my experience and that of many others I have observed tells me that this rarely happens.
Those who pay, pay what they can and always ask for the best that can be done.
My advice is to accept business class when it is offered and to negotiate with vigor in every aspect of your professional life.
The smart way to handle this if you really want to fly business class is to pay the upgrade cost difference yourself. Mark it on your expense report when you turn in the receipts.
Your sponsor then may say "no worries, we'll take care of the upgrade cost!" then you're golden. In any case they'll respect your integrity.
A big advantage in business to me is that it's usually only two seats next to each other. That also no risk of middle seat. I've yet to experience lie-flat seats in business class. Even first class on many planes doesn't have that.
What risk is there of a middle seat if you are choosing your seat?
While I do enjoy my automatic C+ upgrades at time of ticketing because of status on Delta, I’m short and average size so main cabin doesn’t really bother me especially if I can get an exit row seat. It wasn’t bad flying nine hours to London two months ago.
Best airport mental hack for last-minute types: Get lounge access beyond Priorty Pass
Even though most domestric lounges are hit-or-miss, it's a way to trick myself into getting to the airport 30 to 45 minutes earlier than I would. That way, if I'm running late, worst case I miss the lounge or cut short the time.
For those complaining that lounges are overcrowded with mediocre food, it's true and getting worse. However, it's buffet style - select a healthy salad option with a reasonable protein. Non Priority Pass options are somewhat worthwhile -- United Clubs have gone through a massive upgrade post Covid and so far haven't been too crowded. They also allow access upon arrival, if you really need to fire off some emails and hydrate upon landing.
As for in-flight, for former gaming geeks, try classic emulators. They won't require internet and drain very minimal battery life on your latop.
The adjacent hack is to bring an empty water bottle in your carry-on, which you fill once you clear security. Then, you have a full bottle of water and can decline everything from the "beverage cart" on your flight, meaning you never need to worry about managing a precarious open cup of liquid and ice sitting on your in-flight tray.
I’d struggle to ever pay for lounge access. Even when I’ve flown international first class the lounge is still usually quite disappointing in food, comfort and ambience. It’s better than sitting at the gate but maybe only $10 better. The one exception would be if I had a long layover.
When you are overseas you realize how mediocre things are here. You can make claims about excess and such, but even business class lounges like Qatar in Doha - chef made meals done restaurant style, with a wide menu, beautiful shower suites you can book a 45 minute slot (for free), etc, and very comfortable chairs and a huge amount of space…
The best part of the lounge for me is that you don't have to shlep your luggage into the restroom. I don't care about the food, just the seating, chargers and ability to leave your luggage safely while you use the facilities.
My home airport is MCO - Orlando - where most travelers are either infrequent fliers, flying with families and international vacationers. I use every hack that’s available not to be caught up in that and we fly a lot.
This includes - Clear, TSA, status for priority check in, lounge access and status for earlier boarding so I can already be situated in my seat with my luggage if I just have carry on.
In ATL, my former home airport it’s not as bad because you have more business travel.
> The one exception would be if I had a long layover.
That's what I did for a day-long layover in Istanbul. I took a short self-guided tour of the city via tram, then returned to the airport in the evening and paid for the lounge until my 1 am flight. It was like 20 Euros, absolutely worth it (this lounge had a shower).
I've taken the freebie lounge access on those rare occasions I have a business class ticket, but only if there is no line. If it's a zoo, what's the point? I can sit in one of the empty gate areas with no one around me until it's time to get on the plane.
Concur. Amex plat or equiv is a good option. Important caveat that their lounges tend to fill up, so you may not get in. If you do, it's step up from Delta lounges etc; food's good, relatively.
That’s just the opposite from what I have found. Given the choice between the Delta lounge and the Amex lounge, I always choose Delta lounges. They also seem to be less conveniently located.
That’s especially true in ATL with a lounge at each gate for delta more or less. I still don’t know where the Centurion lounge is in LAX as often as I’ve been there.
Agree completely, between myself and my wife as an authorized user, I gladly pay the almost $2000 a year in annual fees for the Delta Reserve and the Amex Platinum for lounge access in almost every scenario.
The Reserve easily pays for itself with the once a year round trip companion pass good for anywhere in the US, Caribbeans, Mexico or Central America and the hotel credit and the Platinum the same with the credits.
My wife and I have averaged around a flight per month since Covid. With a lot of random trips back home to ATL where Delta has nine lounges
I don't pay for lounges but I find that arriving at the airport affords a peace of mind that is priceless (iv'e seen how flustered the hurried get in security or baggage desks) . If I'm working or hanging out at the airport - I'd just be doing the same thing at home.
I had Priority Pass for a few years when I had a premium credit card for other reasons. I think I used a club a few times when Star Alliance/United wasn't available. Nothing special. And the meaningful meal discounts were few and far between.
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This is really bad advice. You should search using a flight search engine like Google Flights, not a single OTA, and book directly with the airline unless an OTA has a much, much better deal. The $10 that Orbitz might sometimes save you comes at the cost of having to talk to their customer service, not the airline’s, if you want to change your trip.
I imagine the “basic economy” tickets are basically first in line for being bumped.
Example: You search for a flight from YWG to BKK in business, and it wants to route you YWG-YVR-KIX-BKK, which is basically fine. The flight time from YWG-YVR is under 3 hours, so it'll show you fares where that leg is in Economy, but YVR-KIX is in business, which is also, fundamentally, fine, although it would be nice to filter that. A short hop being Economy to get you on to the long leg in Business is usually acceptable. HOWEVER, it will ALSO show you fares where KIX-BKK (a 6 hour flight) are in Economy, and it won't allow you to filter this, so this messes up any ability to sensibly filter flights by price. If I am searching for a flight in Business, please allow me to filter out ones where *9 hours* of that flight is actually in Economy.</rant>
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Every airline wants tech-incompetent grannies to buy their tickets, therefore the UI is simple enough that any HN reader should be able to trivially navigate it.
I recently had a five month period where I took a plane ride every single week for work. A “frequent traveler” so to speak.
To me, the big difference between basic economy and regular is the ability to cancel (for a credit) up until the flight takes off. When you travel once in a while, this isn’t worth that much. When you travel every week, it’s huge. For example, when I travel (round trip) 3-5 times a year (which is my normal cadence), I’m not gonna really care if I booked an 8pm flight but last minute decided that I have time to get on a 6pm. An extra two hours not-at-home is no big deal, maybe even a good thing. When you travel every week, the ability to change later minute is huge (and contrary to popular belief, I found that it is often the case that last minute flights are the same price or cheaper, depending on the route, though it can also be wildly more expensive).
In addition to changing my mind about when to leave, don’t get me started on delays. If I saw my flight was delayed two hours (which often means that it’ll end up cancelling or taking off 6 hours late), I’d immediately book an alternative (if I could find one at a decent price) and then cancel one of them right before departure.
Aside from this, seat selection is important, especially if you travel a lot (the lifestyle is hard enough to begin with). You can usually buy seats in basic economy and the whole thing will be cheaper, but assuming you are going to do that, then the difference is gonna be $25-30 which is basically the “right to cancel” fee.
Why? I don’t fly that much, especially for work, and I’ve never had a problem getting to use my credits from cancelling flights. The price difference between credit-refundable and full refundable is usually significant and doesn’t offer me anything.
The issue is boarding priority and you may not have overhead space and still be forced to gate check your carry on (for free).
In the case of Delta, it’s a combination of not being able to choose your seat, no refunds or airline credit for canceling or changing your flight and no miles earned toward future flights.
I can’t speak for the other airlines.
This one really bothers me. The Portland airport mandates all food prices to be the same as at the businesses off-airport locations. As a passenger that makes it really great. As a free-market worshipper I have some concerns about this but it seems to work really well in practice and we get excellent options. Unfortunately, other airports don't rely on free-market competition to result in great offerings either but instead usually have most vendors operated by the same concession company like HMSHost, SSP Group. This gives a captive audience to a quasi-monopolist. It's the easiest situation to avoid a monopoly or cartel situation and foster competition, yet most airports seem to either be operated by people who don't care, crooks or idiots.
Free market in a location owned by the government where the government gets to control who the vendors are and what the customers are allowed to bring in? Thats not a free market to begin with.
But it's the government (via the TSA) that gates not only customers, but also the employees (as they must at least be able to pass through the TSA, though admittedly the bar isn't tremendously high), and at government-owned airports, they control the tenants / shops as well
To call it a free market misses all kinds of behind the scenes details
Get an airline credit card for one based in your city and checked bags are no longer a cost. Aside from a few minutes to drop and pick up. Usually there are other perks like food and beverage discounts on the plane, etc. I fly to the Caribbean once a year on the miles we accumulate.
Unlike the in-seat entertainment, the movie on a personal tablet won't be interrupted by announcements which I almost never want to hear.
If you want to spend most of your time reading, a Kindle may have advantages but I'm more inclined to travel with a tablet. The newer magnetic keyboards are actually pretty good but I'm at fewer conferences and the like these days where I'm taking notes and I actually have found that I've adapted to just using a phone for many purposes.
What I think I would really like is a detachable keyboard with laptop-style hinges (and maybe a secondary battery). There seem to be a few devices from about a decade ago with that kind of design but they died out in favor of flexible connectors and kickstands.
Perhaps I’m too precious but economy class is awful compared to business class. Lie-flat seats are a significant improvement over economy. If you are spending your own money, sure, stick to economy so you can spend your money on other things that are more important to you… but someone else’s money? What conceivable reason is there to choose economy if someone else is paying.
Not taking advantage of someone else's generosity.
If that's not good enough, don't think the someone else doesn't notice being taken advantage of. They won't say anything, but in the future you may be "overlooked" for other opportunities.
One would think that the employer would recognize or remember this kind of “sacrifice.” Or that, somehow, asking for less money will lead to a more sympathetic judgment of what was accomplished. But my experience and that of many others I have observed tells me that this rarely happens.
Those who pay, pay what they can and always ask for the best that can be done. My advice is to accept business class when it is offered and to negotiate with vigor in every aspect of your professional life.
Your sponsor then may say "no worries, we'll take care of the upgrade cost!" then you're golden. In any case they'll respect your integrity.
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While I do enjoy my automatic C+ upgrades at time of ticketing because of status on Delta, I’m short and average size so main cabin doesn’t really bother me especially if I can get an exit row seat. It wasn’t bad flying nine hours to London two months ago.
Deleted Comment
Thanks for the unpleasant reminder that people like you exist.
Even though most domestric lounges are hit-or-miss, it's a way to trick myself into getting to the airport 30 to 45 minutes earlier than I would. That way, if I'm running late, worst case I miss the lounge or cut short the time.
For those complaining that lounges are overcrowded with mediocre food, it's true and getting worse. However, it's buffet style - select a healthy salad option with a reasonable protein. Non Priority Pass options are somewhat worthwhile -- United Clubs have gone through a massive upgrade post Covid and so far haven't been too crowded. They also allow access upon arrival, if you really need to fire off some emails and hydrate upon landing.
As for in-flight, for former gaming geeks, try classic emulators. They won't require internet and drain very minimal battery life on your latop.
The adjacent hack is to bring an empty water bottle in your carry-on, which you fill once you clear security. Then, you have a full bottle of water and can decline everything from the "beverage cart" on your flight, meaning you never need to worry about managing a precarious open cup of liquid and ice sitting on your in-flight tray.
This includes - Clear, TSA, status for priority check in, lounge access and status for earlier boarding so I can already be situated in my seat with my luggage if I just have carry on.
In ATL, my former home airport it’s not as bad because you have more business travel.
That's what I did for a day-long layover in Istanbul. I took a short self-guided tour of the city via tram, then returned to the airport in the evening and paid for the lounge until my 1 am flight. It was like 20 Euros, absolutely worth it (this lounge had a shower).
I've taken the freebie lounge access on those rare occasions I have a business class ticket, but only if there is no line. If it's a zoo, what's the point? I can sit in one of the empty gate areas with no one around me until it's time to get on the plane.
That’s especially true in ATL with a lounge at each gate for delta more or less. I still don’t know where the Centurion lounge is in LAX as often as I’ve been there.
The Reserve easily pays for itself with the once a year round trip companion pass good for anywhere in the US, Caribbeans, Mexico or Central America and the hotel credit and the Platinum the same with the credits.
My wife and I have averaged around a flight per month since Covid. With a lot of random trips back home to ATL where Delta has nine lounges
I find it handy to include a carabiner on the water bottle lid for hanging off the back of the seat.
Also beware metal water bottles, as they will sometimes deform if sealed during elevation change.
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