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linguae · 15 days ago
I wish Microsoft reverted to its 1990s style of making tools for power users that don’t get in the way. Windows 2000 was peak Windows to me. Security issues aside, it was a solid OS. It also had a non-flashy interface that got out of my way. No annoying notifications, no distractions: just pure Windows. Windows 2000 respected the user.

Today’s versions of Windows seem less respectful of the user. Microsoft is treating Windows as a platform to advertise Microsoft’s products rather than as strictly a productivity tool. Even if a lot of users these days use computers more like entertainment and communication devices rather than productivity tools, software should still get out of the user’s way. Software should shut up and do what the user commands.

Unfortunately there are other software systems that have the same philosophy. Google constantly nags me regarding logging in and switching to Chrome. Even macOS has gotten a lot more nag screens in the past decade compared to the glory years of Jobs-era Mac OS X.

It’s amazing how so many organizations are dependent on Windows, macOS, and Google for their productivity, yet these platforms have become more annoying to use over the years, becoming impediments to productivity.

hilbert42 · 15 days ago
"Windows 2000 was peak Windows to me."

Exactly the same here (and I've said so many times over the past 20 or so years). Sure, the W2K UI could be tarted up a little bit but no major functional changes. With security and hardware updates I'd be completely happy.

Microsoft's behavior forced me into migrating to Linux (and in that I'm not alone).

jazzyjackson · 15 days ago
xfce + Chicago 95 is a lovely environment

https://github.com/grassmunk/Chicago95

amy_petrik · 15 days ago
"Windows 2000 was peak Windows to me."

Windows ME was peak windows to 2000

codr7 · 15 days ago
Same, I'm just not doing Win11, I would rather run DOS.
rayiner · 15 days ago
I am persuaded Microsoft’s current team couldn’t build win2k again.
LeifCarrotson · 15 days ago
They've got the talent (and almost 10x the headcount), it's the organizational architecture and perverse incentives that would (and do) prevent them from building it.

It wasn't a lack of talent that caused a team to decide to put "Microsoft Rewards" ads that look like phishing scams on start menus and in notifications. Instead, some PM got a bonus or promotion for making and increasing usage of this awful product, degrading the user experience and siphoning off a tiny amount of money. A different organization would have had the ability to realize that's a terrible "feature" to add to the OS.

SnuffBox · 15 days ago
I still use Windows 2k machines for Photoshop and other old Adobe tools that didn't have much in the way of DRM. It's an operating system that respects the user, it doesn't act as a babysitter.
hilbert42 · 15 days ago
And I still have a W2K machine that I use for offline tasks, some are software related (compatibility), others support older hardware that's still functional (back then, forced/planned obsolescence wasn't quite as bigger deal). I've my ancient HP LJ-III printer connected to the PC via its parallel port.
jwrallie · 15 days ago
It is really easy, they could just take LTSC and market it to a different audience, and it would be 95% there.

But they won’t, because they don’t care.

dvfjsdhgfv · 15 days ago
> because they don’t care.

I don't think that's the right reason. They very much care about the opposite, that is, realizing their strategy of migrating from "buy-once-use-forever" to the subscription model. That's the reason they force everybody to use online user accounts and so on.

LTSC is a direct threat to this model so it's practically impossible to use at home/small business legally.

Melatonic · 15 days ago
Exactly - LTSC is awesome
Eddy_Viscosity2 · 15 days ago
> Today’s versions of Windows seem less respectful of the user.

This is a massive understatement. These days Microsoft is openly and aggressively hostile to the user and its getting worse every update. This is yet another of the curses of monopoly, the monopolists will eventually hold those under its sway with utter contempt. They are going to do things their way, and you are going to take it.

cesarb · 15 days ago
> > Windows 2000 was peak Windows to me.

> These days Microsoft is openly and aggressively hostile to the user and its getting worse every update.

In my opinion, the moment at which Microsoft started being actively hostile to the user was when they added WGA in the Windows XP era. Its existence meant that the owner of the computer would no longer be considered a trusted party; that piece of code was actively working against the computer owner. That led Microsoft to gradually adopt a mindset in which the owner of the computer is no longer supposed to be in control of the computer. That mindset got even stronger with the addition of DRM (which treats computer owners as if they were actively malicious), and with malware protection measures like Secure Boot and Kernel Patch Protection (which treat only code explicitly authorized by Microsoft as reliable).

foobarian · 15 days ago
I don't think it has to do with monopoly, adtech is the problem IMO. If you are not on the adtech train you lose
Telemakhos · 15 days ago
> Even macOS has gotten a lot more nag screens in the past decade compared to the glory years of Jobs-era Mac OS X.

I bought a new iPad the other day. I've got notifications in System Preferences advertising five different services I don't want, plus more notifications in individual apps (like an advertisement for the Apple TV subscription in the TV app, which is not the same thing as the subscription service). I don't want Apple TV, Apple-filtered News, whatever the Apple exercise thing is, or the Apple Cultural Experience: just the hardware and software I bought.

Esophagus4 · 15 days ago
Yes - and the Apple Card advertisement in the wallet app. Or a persistent notification badge to turn on iCloud.

I’ve made my decisions, leave me alone!

Ezhik · 15 days ago
The one good thing about Apple is that they at least have the decency to shut the fuck up once you pay them.

Meanwhile Microsoft kept showing me upsells in File Explorer to move this or that to OneDrive despite me already paying for the damn thing.

bradleyankrom · 15 days ago
A persistent notification badge on Settings because it believes I just haven't gotten to setting up Siri after all these years
wappieslurkz · 15 days ago
"Windows 2000 was peak Windows to me. "

Exactly, Windows 2000 was such a comfortable workhorse. And lightning fast, it made me doubt why I was a Mac head. I switched briefly until OS X grew up and surpassed any version of Windows in reliability and versatility (for me).

zahlman · 15 days ago
> It’s amazing how so many organizations are dependent on Windows, macOS, and Google for their productivity, yet these platforms have become more annoying to use over the years, becoming impediments to productivity.

"Extinguish" is out; "Enshittify" is in. (Maybe the other Es have also changed.)

sheepscreek · 15 days ago
TL;DR American companies are legally obligated to put the interests of shareholders before customers and employees. (Off-topic) This should explain why layoffs are so acceptable, even in the face of record profits.

There’s a reason why their stock price is through the roof. Companies in the US have their first and foremost duty towards Shareholders, and only shareholders. This is not an opinion, I am speaking legally.[1] And what the shareholders want is for the company to squeeze out every dollar it possibly can from its products.

[1] Shareholder Primacy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.

v9v · 15 days ago
Please read the "Significance" section of the Wikipedia article you linked. It shows that your claim that this is a legal requirement isn't as clear-cut as you make it to be.
djeastm · 15 days ago
From reading your source, it doesn't really sound like a legal requirement, since the "business judgment rule" kind of supersedes it.

I think it's more that the people boards put in charge of businesses know which side of their bread is buttered on and naturally will try to make board members/shareholders happy or they'll be out of a job.

Customers/employees are treated as just means to that end.

maxerickson · 15 days ago
You beg the question of whether the changes they make are good for shareholder value.

Maybe they print money in spite of the user hostile stuff.

lightedman · 15 days ago
"This is not an opinion, I am speaking legally"

Hi, as former member of a board of directors, and also as a current shareholder in a company, you are wrong. The fiduciary duties owed to the company arise from the legal relationship between the directors and the company directed and controlled by them. The fiduciary duties owed to the shareholders do not arise from that legal relationship.

Try again when you actually graduate law school. Maybe then you can speak legally about something I do PROFESSIONALLY.

the__alchemist · 15 days ago
This is so annoying. I just had a Windows update, and had to decline Office and backups again. The worst one I've encountered is moving your home folder items to OneDrive without consent.

On the plus side of Windows added features, PowerToys has some nice tools!

For the audio device switching mentioned in the article: Try downloading Soundswitch: Fixed this for me. (Note: There's a scammy-looking software that also goes by this name; be careful!)

mrec · 15 days ago
The "OOBE" post-update prompt has become incredibly toxic. The last one even started blocking Alt-Tab so you couldn't get out, and demanded a Microsoft account password which I never use so don't have memorized. And of course I couldn't get to my usual reminders. If I didn't have a mobile handy as backup (which I didn't, until recently) I'd basically be looking at a bricked PC.

This is about as dark-pattern-ey as it gets. Pretty sure I'm going to be making the jump to Linux for my next machine, or on this one if W10 becomes unusable after EoL.

kayodelycaon · 15 days ago
I had a neighbor get completely locked out of a laptop after a Windows update due to this. They didn’t have the password or phone number to the Microsoft account. Of course, you can’t send a password reset email to the account you’re locked out of. I couldn’t figure out how to reverse it converting a local account into a cloud one.

There’s probably a way but I haven’t troubleshooted a Windows problem since 2008.

p_ing · 15 days ago
You can disable the post-update OOBE prompt in Settings.

Settings -> System -> Notifications -> Additional Settings

Ofc it's buried.

ChoGGi · 15 days ago
If it helps; I've never gotten an oobe from an update on win 11, though I have enabled auto login, and I had edited the install medium to add a local account.
jasonvorhe · 15 days ago
You can get all that and more with any modern Linux distribution without the telemetry, surveillance and without a forced cloud-linked account trying to constantly upsell you something without having to worry about most malware. Begging Microsoft for scraps in 2025 is just weak. Enjoy the slavery.
the__alchemist · 15 days ago
I will get irritated with the flaws in Windows; The ones listed in the article and more. I will also get irritated with the flaws of Linux and its flavors! Some examples

  - The ABI diaspora
  - Sudo nominally being for special/power use cases, but being required for many things
  - Doesn't feel like it's aimed at single-user PCs, and has associated UX problems
  - Non-standard hardware has limited support.

Summarized: I feel like Linux has some deep philosophical design differences from what I look for in a computer. I'm not trying to administer anything; I just want to write and launch software.

bbkane · 15 days ago
See my comment above, but I'm in the same boat. Linux definitely has problems that need to be solved, but unlike Windows its less likely to "change underneath me" once I've solved those problems to my satisfaction. In fact, a Windows update breaking my desktop is what facilitated my switch to Linux.

I'm also more willing to solve problems in Linux. Because I primarily write web software, I've also found "Linux debugging" skills more useful to learn than "Windows debugging skills" - the Linux skills tend to translate almost directly to my career. And it usually feels worthwhile to contribute good bug reports/fixes upstream; in stark contrast to Windows OS issues (and some of the more popular Windows software).

zahlman · 15 days ago
> Sudo nominally being for special/power use cases, but being required for many things

Many things are special/power use cases. Freedom is power, and with power comes responsibility.

> Doesn't feel like it's aimed at single-user PCs

It isn't. But what you think of as problems, I consider opportunities. Switching between multiple user accounts is useful for identity management.

> I'm not trying to administer anything; I just want to write and launch software.

If you test and package and distribute your software, you necessarily administrate the environments in which the tests and builds occur.

troupo · 15 days ago
> Sudo nominally being for special/power use cases, but being required for many things

Just the fact that installing user software still requires sudo in most distributions is very irritating to me.

Hence the rise of `curl <something> | bash` I think

pessimizer · 15 days ago
These seem very trivial, except the ABI (but only for people marketing software) and the last one, which is simply untrue.

If you absolutely refuse to handle your own system's security ("Enter a password to do something on my own computer? No thank you!"), you really should leave the management of your computer to Microsoft, and ask their permission personally to view your own files. They'll faceid you, consider the merits of your request, and decide how much access you should have to your own life.

In that way you can avoid sudo, or the concept of a multiuser computer entirely.

As for the last one, it is simply untrue. Linux supports as much as or more hardware than Windows. Windows will more likely support the latest greatest stuff because people don't release hardware specs. But once Linux catches up, it keeps that hardware compatibility longer, and can always be reverted back to by using an old kernel even a decade or two after a piece of hardware is dropped.

bigyabai · 15 days ago
All of those are express non-issues for me. I feel bad for anyone shackled to Windows over such a minor gripe.
CoolCold · 15 days ago
Indeed, I agree here, Linux, and basically Unix was not designed to work without administrator.

I would argue that more time was spent on thinking "how we do hotplug CPU on our machine" than on "how that user will work with USB drives".

port11 · 14 days ago
My Logitech keyboard and mouse connect perfectly at boot, but never reconnect again if Linux goes to sleep; unless I change the RF plug to another USB port, but eventually I run out of ports and must reboot. Several online solutions claim "you just have to…" and how it's your fault for buying Logitech. Until Linux can give me a consistent basic experience, I'm not sold. And I try to migrate almost every year.
megaloblasto · 15 days ago
Linux has UX problems isn't quite a correct statement because Linux has many, fully flexible user interfaces that can be customized however you like.

It's possible that you are just experiencing friction moving to Linux because you are used to MS.

Easily writing and launching software is something Linux excels at.

bbkane · 15 days ago
I switched my primary desktop to Debian XFCE a year ago. Took me a while to "distro shop" and install NVIDIA drivers and set my keyboard shortcuts, but now that everything works it keeps chugging along with no drama. I turn my PC on, start streaming music, and hack on my little side project code. Lovely.

Most non-gamers probably only need a web browser, so I think a lot of people could get away with this (maybe with a distro that pre-installs drivers they need).

ekianjo · 15 days ago
gamers on Linux can also enjoy the huge offering on Steam with about 70 to 80% compatibility
mellosouls · 15 days ago
Unfortunately there's still no Linux distro (apart from MacOS) that is as frustration-free as Windows for your average (non-tech) user.

Microsoft is due righteous criticism as here, but let's be realistic about Linux as well.

ekianjo · 15 days ago
> Unfortunately there's still no Linux distro (apart from MacOS) that is as frustration-free as Windows for your average (non-tech) user

of course there is. its just a matter of familiarity. if you only know Linux Windows is very hard to use as well.

jasonvorhe · 15 days ago
Frustration free as Windows? You're kidding, right?

I recently showed a client of mine how Ubuntu works out of the box. No hours of rebooting, no ads in any menus, no online account requirement, no persistent anti-malware scanning, no UI elements from the 90s showing through. Drivers can be an issue, power usage perhaps, maybe sleep is annoying (especially on shit hardware) on laptops but apart from that I don't know how you can even compare the frustration from a recent Windows system with a modern Linux desktop.

phba · 15 days ago
Windows isn't frustration-free for non-tech users, though. At least in my social circle people constantly complain about Windows doing stupid things and changing all the time.

I helped some elderly friends and neighbours switch to Linux and they love it. Just a handful of programs, everything works, and nothing ever changes.

anal_reactor · 15 days ago
I want to switch to Linux. What distribution do you suggest? My use case:

1. 3060Ti - I want to play games with all the bells and whistles that I get on Windows. I understand that for some games I'll need to boot Windows, but by and large I expect smooth experience.

2. I am familiar with Terminal and basic Linux commands because I've used Ubuntu a little, but god I love the UI of Windows 10. It's decline from Windows 7, but still miles ahead of either Ubuntu (used once in a while) or MacOS (used at work for five years, still super confused).

3. I want things to "just work".

Copernicron · 15 days ago
Probably Ubuntu or Mint. They're friendlier for new users and handle a lot of the proprietary drivers for you. Something like Kubuntu, which uses KDE as its desktop environment, is closer to Windows than bog standard Ubuntu. I haven't tried gaming on either, but when I tried on Fedora I had no issue running Doom, Diablo IV, or Cyberpunk 2077.

I wouldn't recommend diving right in. There are guides that show you how to shrink existing disk partitions or boot off external drives so you don't break your existing system. Once you're comfortable enough, then you can consider making the switch permanent.

jasonvorhe · 15 days ago
My suggestion is installing Arch Linux. Start with a very common, basic setup, no bells and whistles. Install omarchy. Get used to it. Customise it. Watch the tutorial by DHH.

I'm on AMD and play very little (Quake Champions, Doom Dark Ages, Tempest Dawn) but some anecdotal evidence points to nvidia working okay: https://nerdburglars.net/question/is-gaming-on-linux-with-an...

Arch, once setup, is 99% "just works" with some "update and peek at what's changed every now and then".

1970-01-01 · 15 days ago
The counterpart to that is enjoy your next "Linux Evening". I've had two Linux evenings this week, until I finally decided to give up and restore a backup

The ARCH/UBUNTU/DEBIAN triad have been consecutively producing a bottom contender for your desktop 30 years in a row. Slavery comes in different forms.

partomniscient · 15 days ago
I'm also in agreement that server-side, Windows 2000 server was peak.

XP/Window 7 were peak end-user OS's, once you got over the Fisher-Price look of XP.

The constraints you had in terms of user-UI were a massive advantage in terms of user-understanding. Now we're in a stupid era of the browser is the UI and everything is non-conformant with everything else in terms of looks/expectation/behaviour.

The version of MS-Office prior to the stupid ribbon-shit were also the peak versions. It's all been downhill since then with Windows ME and Windows 8 being exceptionally low points.

I'm about to shift to FreeBSD as my main driver as the Linux distribution fragmentation and wane in reliability/dependability and repeatability has given me the shits (how many apt-get equivalents are there now...?) I used to like Debian back in the day but now it and its derivatives (e.g. Ubuntu) give me the shits and Red-Hat and Fedora likewise, and Debian itself won't even install a working desktop. Apparently raising a bug for Fedora gets put into "Closed - not a bug" because IBM don't give a shit about quality anymore - even though the install resulted in an unbootable OS and I spent hours raising a proper bug report. Pop-OS was reasonable, but scaling where some apps have both big and little font sizes intermixed still mean its a clusterfuck of a kludge.

It's 2025 and apparently trying to mount network shares in fstab before the network interface is up isn't a bug. It's still not year of the desktop for Linux.

FWIW, I liked Apple in the 1980's - not so much since then.

I still appreciate all the contributions of those individuals out there is both GNU/Linux and the BSD'd trying to make the world a better place for themselves/others and sharing the results.

mark-r · 15 days ago
I have a Windows 7 PC that I decided to upgrade when the motherboard was about 10 years old. Expected it to just boot right up, motherboards haven't changed all that much. It would get to the part of the boot sequence where the window was coalescing on screen, and crash. A message flew by too quickly to see much less read, then totally black and unresponsive.

At that point I had a choice. I could buy a new version of Windows 11 for $200 which is much worse than the Windows 7 I gave up. Or I could switch to Linux. Hello Linux! There's one application I miss dearly that was Windows-only, but overall I'm a happy camper now.

ChoGGi · 15 days ago
I went from Haswell to Zen without any issues, other than cleaning out device manager.
emeril · 15 days ago
i still miss office 2003 - esp as a power user of excel - it was so much faster/more reliably than the modern versions

65k rows was a feature, not a bug...

partomniscient · 15 days ago
Yep. The slow-down it had in responsiveness once you got the thick green cell-highlight cursor was sooo noticeable I immediately though it was a downgrade.

I remember the original dev's for the Excel application used to pride themselves on its performance. I don't know what happened, except probably upper-management overrule.

mastry · 15 days ago
They're doing the same thing with C#. The amount crap they have added to that language over the years is mind boggling - yet, we still don't have sum types which is the one thing that every C# developer I have worked with _really_ wants.
tyleo · 15 days ago
I have mixed views on this. We’ve gotten a lot of good with the bad. I think “C#, the Good Parts” would be a much thicker book than “JavaScript, the Good Parts”
JaggerJo · 15 days ago
I agree. Most things that got added are good.

I don’t like that there are 3+ ways of checking if a value is null tho.

vouwfietsman · 15 days ago
That in itself is a critique of C#
orthoxerox · 15 days ago
Could you list the features you consider crap?
Someone1234 · 15 days ago
Yeah, I'd like to see this too...

We're discussing Windows and all its ad-ware/invasive changes, and someone brings up C# without giving a real explanation or examples.

The last few C# versions brought primary constructors, collection expressions, records(!), tons of Span<T> improvements/support, etc. I just flicked through the list, and nothing that stuck out to me as being bloated.

The main bloat C# has is older stuff that you really shouldn't be using anymore (e.g. ArrayList, dynamic, Thread, delegate keyword, etc).

fabian2k · 15 days ago
It's anything but a small language, but I wouldn't consider the stuff they're adding crap. They're useful features, but yes, this does have a price and makes the language larger.

There is value in a language with minimal syntax like Go, but it's not the only choice. C# is a pretty nice language overall, even with all the warts. But every language people actually use does have ugly stuff somewhere.

shiandow · 15 days ago
If you're creative about it you can make an interface for what is essentially a sum type.

All it takes is a method signature like:

   Z read<Z>(Func<A,Z> readA, Func<B,Z> readB)
It's a bit of a Yoneda embedding like way of forcing it in to the language, but hey it works.

masfuerte · 15 days ago
I think I'm missing something.

Presumably, you use a function like this to represent your sum type containing the value "avalue":

    (readA, readB) => readA(avalue)
The problem I have is that when you create this function you have to reify the return type Z. You can't use this value in arbitrary contexts where the accessors need to return different types.

How do you get this to work?

mastry · 15 days ago
Yep, this is exactly the approach we take. It works ok-ish, but it’s far from elegant. In our case ‘read’ is ‘Switch’. I think it’s a fairly common pattern in C# these days.
codedokode · 15 days ago
You can emulate sum types with classes and inheritance (N classes inherit from an empty base class), can't you?
bestouff · 15 days ago
It's very clunky
nailer · 15 days ago
I just wish they sold windows professional. Like an actual Windows professional that has no ads because you paid extra money. You can buy a Microsoft surface device and Windows is still filled with adware because there’s no professional version of Windows.
falcor84 · 15 days ago
I suppose it's not exactly what you're looking for, but note that you can literally buy Windows 11 Pro -

https://www.microsoft.com/en-ie/d/windows-11-pro/dg7gmgf0d8h...

tremon · 15 days ago
>> that has no ads because you paid extra money

Windows 11 Pro still has ads, telemetry, and all the other misfeatures that professionals can do without.

nailer · 15 days ago
Yes I’ve been aware of that for twenty five years.
dtech · 15 days ago
That has been a thing since at least Windows 2000 Professional... I don't know the exact crapware situation, but at least with pro you have access to group policies, and then you can usually disable the crap. (still ridiculous)

but it does show how the suggestion for a more expensive version of a thing without ads is niche at best, since even the people complaining about it aren't aware when it does exist.

tialaramex · 15 days ago
OneDrive is so persistent that on locked down systems where the whole concept is that the machine can only take exams, there's still a problem where Microsoft are like "Oh, do you want OneDrive?". No. Fucking no. They can't have OneDrive, they aren't entitled to OneDrive, and you couldn't install OneDrive if they said "Yes". Fuck off.
ccppurcell · 15 days ago
My partner uses Windows and I occasionally provide my amateurish tech support. One thing not mentioned in this article is the right click situation. I can't really describe what's wrong because I've not used Windows regularly in ten years. All I know is it is very confusing and basic tasks are hidden behind an extra click. I'm sure this is another mcrib situation but I wanted to mention it. There's probably a way to change it. But there are so many things like this and they usually come up when I'm trying to solve some other problem and don't have time to get distracted finding the setting. Is it so hard to make basic functionality the default and let users add on some of these features if they want to.
speeder · 15 days ago
So when I got forced to use Win11 I went to look for a script that disable telemetry. Then I see the script offers the feature of using old behavior for right click menu...

I immediately started to think: but old behavior was so simple and obvious, what is there to change? The I right clicked to check. Immediately was hit with the wtf changes. Why? Why MS?

Deleted Comment

p_ing · 15 days ago
The purpose behind the new right-click menu is performance. The old right-click menu would load modules (typically 3rd party) that would cause significant lag on first-click [of a specific type of file].
tclover · 15 days ago
This is not the right place go improve the performance. With so many useless bloatware and tools I don’t need, this is not the place where I want improved performance
ItsBob · 15 days ago
I've said it many times in the past: the OS is a toolbox, just like a carpenters toolbox.

I use it to keep my apps (tools) in. I use the apps (hammer, saw, screwdriver etc.) to get a job done, then I put them away. The job of the OS isn't to recommend that I use Hammer v2.0 or to update my toolbox to the latest version.

The OS is, or should be, out of my way.

I agree with others here: Windows 2000 was peak OS for me!