I am a dull man by every measure. I don't have interesting hobbies, I am not an influencer, I don't post interesting posts on social media and I don't travel a lot, I don't do extreme things, I barely have any money at the moment, I bore others, in fact when I try to amuse my colleagues or the opposite sex, my jokes regularly fall flat and even my voice is dull I believe.
But after my kids were born I noticed something: my kids loved my voice, they listened to every sentence I made, they laughed at my quirky jokes I made and they loved when I sang to them or I brought them to the park or to the nursery and when I sat them on my neck. My wife took all that from me though, so now I need to fight to get my kids back.
But the moral of the story is: dullness is a matter of perspective. Even if you think you are dull, chances are you are not. It's just the world such a place now that the bar is raised too high that most ordinary people can't cross even by jumping over the moon.
So I don't care any more what others think of me. I came to accept my dullness and embraced it. If it bores others, I don't care.
> But after my kids were born I noticed something: my kids loved my voice, they listened to every sentence I made, they laughed at my quirky jokes I made and they loved when I sang to them or I brought them to the park or to the nursery and when I sat them on my neck. My wife took all that from me though, so now I need to fight to get my kids back.
You call yourself dull, but this short comment revealed the opposite picture. Kids are a lot more authentic than adults. Clearly they found a lot to enjoy about you.
> My wife took all that from me though, so now I need to fight to get my kids back.
There's an intense amount of suffering and courage in this statement which you tried to present in such a deadpan, flippant way.
> So I don't care any more what others think of me. I came to accept my dullness and embraced it. If it bores others, I don't care.
That's good, but I don't think you're actually dull or boring. Someone put that in your head and you accepted it.
he managed to find a spouse interested enough to marry him. That's already 10 steps above many internet dwellers as of late. People who want to seem "not dull" for that exact goal.
I also did read the piece and recognize this "Dull man's club" is anything but. It's simply a tongue and cheek name for niche hobbies. I'm sure the hackers of the 80's/90's would have fit right in.
We sadly became more dull overtime in comparison as our hobbies all converged into the same few things. And even those few things could be interesting, but hobbies became so shallow. we watch TV but often don't analyze and critque it. We eat food but don't truly taste and savor its flavor. Being "dull" in my eyes means not truly interacting nor resonating with the things you do in your life.
> I don't have interesting hobbies, I am not an influencer, I don't post interesting posts on social media and I don't travel a lot, I don't do extreme things, I barely have any money at the moment, I bore others, in fact when I try to amuse my colleagues or the opposite sex, my jokes regularly fall flat and even my voice is dull I believe.
That's everyday life for the vast majority of people, we got tricked by smoke and mirrors on social media into thinking life has to be something it isn't, most of what you see there is fake in part or in whole. People should just enjoy what they have/are instead of burning out running after made up things other people pretend to be doing to be happy
What's funny is when you actually know people who are influencers, it turns out their lives actually are nothing like what it is online! I think we are all a lot more dull than some would like to admit.
Not everyone works or thinks the same. Some goals and passions come from within, and for some people these can be the very reason for living.
One infinitesimal, geologically small moment where the universe is awake and alive and available for you. The world is an infinite blank canvas, and it's full of adventure.
Some people exist to do, build, or explore with their short time. Life is full of energy and opportunity to do so.
Some of these people would find the "traditional life" inescapably boring.
I think this story sounds familiar to a lot of us, especially as men who likely spend less time on social media comparing and FOMOing. Let's hope you get your kids back too and somebody new will get enchanted by your "boring" voice.
At some point your kids will also be grown up and able to make their own choices.
In the meantime, get a dog. They thrive in dull consistency and will love you for it. They will happily walk the same path each day and just sleep at your feet while you do what you need to do.
This comment reminds me of my own socially anxious belief that I am boring, that people don't want to hear what I have to say, etc. And I have had plenty of evidence to reinforce those beliefs. As I have been working through things in therapy though, I have realized that my wounded mind grabs on to those things that reinforce that negative belief and tends to be dismissive of things that would contradict it. I've also realized that because I have those fears/wounds I often interact with people in ways that are more likely to elicit disinterested responses - I often have a flat affect and emote little, display no enthusiasm when communicating about things that I care about because I expect that the other person won't be interested or care. I wouldn't be surprised if I subconsciously have chosen friends who re-inforce those beliefs as well, I think I sometimes feel uncomfortable when people do respond enthusiastically toward me.
Some of my early experiences as an adult that broke my heart open a little were also with children - I don't have any of my own, but when my nephew and niece were young they were so open and enthusiastic and happy to see me it got past my wounded defense mechanisms.
That's maybe one of the biggest helping things. Having the right audience and even if it is only one or two people (or kids). This can make a lot of difference.
> display no enthusiasm when communicating about things that I care about because I expect that the other person won't be interested or care
This resonates a lot, and especially in "our community" of tech enthusiasts. I don't display enthusiasm about electronics, pcb design and assembly, with non nerdy people because I don't expect any form of interest (which is compounded by the assumption the person won't understand a word about it).
It got especially reinforced of late as I made a foray in woodworking to build myself a bookshelf from scratch with a custom design. There is something about non-tech hobbies that anyone can relate to (everyone was stoked by said bookshelf) that makes it easier to share. Even the layperson can grasp the design challenges faced in such hobbies, including nerdy but non tech ones (warhammer figurine painting is the first that comes to mind). OTOH when I show a custom-made PCB to someone, I just get a "ok cool".
> I wouldn't be surprised if I subconsciously have chosen friends who re-inforce those beliefs as well
There is also a strong tendency to vary friend groups and "get out of your bubble" if you think you're boring, to get "non-boring" people around you. Which can be healthy but highly frustrating, because you don't get to share stuff with them.
I can't wait to get children to share those interests with them.
Sort of reminds me of "The Last Lecture" on cliches.
Here's a summary:
Cliches work because they’re typically right on the money. Plus, kids don’t know most of them, so educators should use them. They’re a new audience and they’re inspired by cliches.
> But after my kids were born I noticed something: my kids loved my voice, they listened to every sentence I made, they laughed at my quirky jokes I made and they loved when I sang to them or I brought them to the park or to the nursery and when I sat them on my neck. My wife took all that from me though, so now I need to fight to get my kids back.
> But the moral of the story is: dullness is a matter of perspective.
Meh. Kids (or dogs) don't know better, they are just little love machines with literally 0 knowledge outside of you. That doesn't mean that dullness is a perspective, or they wouldn't benefit from it if you were just smarter, better, more interesting.
Isn't that the whole point though – nobody wants to or has to live in a void. Maybe children would prefer different parents, and maybe parents would want different children. That's not how that works. You keep them alive, love them, and give them enough tools and knowledge for them to have a fighting chance on their own.
I think the point of the OP was to say that you don't need to be the best thing since sliced bread to get some basic love and companionship, which is the message modern dating and social media are sending to a lot of us.
You are enough, even if somebody in all resentfulness wants to have you believe otherwise.
I obviously don't know anything about you beyond this comment but you chose to include a mention of your divorce, so I think it's not overstepping to try to connect these themes. To be blunt, could it be that being less dull would have improved the longevity of the marriage?
> in fact when I try to amuse my colleagues or the opposite sex, my jokes regularly fall flat
Even the dullest of innocent jokes, delivered horribly, can get a chuckle in decent company. "Falls flat" means the "jokes" are inappropriate, mean, gross, *ist, etc. The phrase "colleagues or the opposite sex" is a tell.
The Dull Men's Club group of facebook is actually oddly interesting. I would classify it more as a group who point out the very small oddities of every day life that are not very interesting. There is a post where someone saw two geese with 42 bay geese, another where the rental company fixed a door with a piece of pool noodle. Its more like a "huh that's kind of weird I guess" group.
One of my favorite books is The Mezzanine[0], which takes place entirely as a man ascends a single elevator but spins off onto all kinds of tangents that comment on and express exuberance about the most mundane things.
There's an entire thread on the evolution of stapler design, elaborations on the invention of perforations, and abundant self-reflection. It's almost like a hybrid of Leonard Read's "I, Pencil" and Hegel.
There's something magical about paying close attention to the mundane, IMHO.
Wow, that book sounds like a mix of Johan Harstad's footnote riddled Forsaken/The Red Handler (and who's Max, Mischa & Tetoffensiven even is about 'idling') and George Perec's An Attempt at Exhausting a Place in Paris[1]. As you say, the almost childlike fascination with the mundane is really valuable, it helps to guide my own eyes when wandering the city.
This is my favourite book, it's hilarious and it kind of mirrors how I go about my life: pondering every little detail and how everything fits together.
I'm not sure if it's the same thing as dullness though?
It's the facebook version of r/mildlyinteresting on Reddit, which is also very popular. I think it's because this is the kind of thing that fills our days: small oddities and observations that spark our brain but aren't exceptional.
There's high praise in some movies or animation where they depict the mundane; the long sequence in Ghost in the Shell just showing the city as it is, away from the main story (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARTLckN9e7I), most of Studio Ghibli's films, a lot of Breaking Bad and especially Better Call Saul, where there's a lot of scenes of people just going about their day, John Travolta getting a can of paint and a pizza in the opening of Saturday Night Fever (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfwQ_7xqO7Y), etc.
I had to block it because I realized it just completely overtook my feed and 99% of it was in that "interesting but ultimately forgettable within 30 seconds of reading it" zone that's filling up social media. I mean it lived up to its name - it's very "dull" if vaguely interesting.
this is the part of the internet that everyone would be better off avoiding: not bad but no long-term value. When the internet was novel and your engagement limited these were rarer, cool things to share (often face to face!). Now this content is internet sugar that will be the health crisis of a generation.
I cannot think of anything better than a 99% dull feed.
Part of the point of DMC content is a solace from everyday stressors. That's a factor in why divisive topics--politics, religion, etc.--are discouraged when "main points" of a post.
My fave I remember seeing years ago was one where a man - over some long period of time - managed to park in every single parking space of a supermarket.
I feel like this energy perfectly encapsulates what dull mans club is all about
I think that's fantastic. The dedication to such a trivial accomplishment!
I suppose it's no different to people that grind computer games to get 100% completion. A little dopamine hit each time that number edges up, followed by the satisfaction of having finally completed a long-sought goal.
Recently some spinoff/copycat groups have also sprouted up. There’s a “Dull Men’s Forum”, and a “Dull Men’s Fun Club”, for example, which post similar memes. And a “Dull Women’s Club” as well (even though I also often see women posting in the Dull Men’s Club, I suppose women on average have different sensibilities about where to draw the line between dull and interesting).
I view this as a sign that the group has become too popular and lots its “edge” (which in this case was its authentic dullness), and now is just a place for farming likes and impressions from the broader FB community. A lot of it is quite derivative of other popular posts - “what is the purpose of this thing I found in my hotel/new house/grandma’s house” posts seems to be a really common theme, for example.
Some of these are _pages_ that post content stolen from "dull" groups or from other groups that are thematically not far off, like Aldi fan groups. As your view includes pages that are just mass-theft operations seeking Facebook payouts, you have selection bias.
This is a cool concept but I have an issue with one being "dull" on a conceptual level. Personally I think that every single person on earth is both the dullest person you have ever met and the most interesting person on earth, it just depends on your perspective.
I have friends that play DnD which I personally find very dull but hearing them talk about it, it's clear they do not see it the same way. Conversely I love cars and talking about cars and I can talk with another gearhead for hours on the topic, but the times my wife has listened in on my conversations she said it was the most boring thing she has ever heard in her life.
> Personally I think that every single person on earth is both the dullest person you have ever met and the most interesting person on earth, it just depends on your perspective.
You are most certainly right, but I don’t think that this is in contradiction with how the Club works. Everyone is dull and interesting depending on the situation and the audience. The Club is for when you found or saw something interesting and important to you, but your audience disagree, does not notice, or does not care.
Nobody is fundamentally dull, but everybody is being dull at some point.
I don't know why this perspective bothers me so much, but it does. This idea that people are alternatively dull or interesting feels wrong to me, on a kind of visceral level. So far so that I'm having trouble marshaling my thoughts enough that I can tell you why. It's like there's an intuition gap so large I'm getting vertigo. Nothing here is intended to say that the way you feel about it is invalid, but I need to write out my own feelings in order to put my brain's feet back on solid ground.
It feels entirely backwards to me that there is some kind of dull/exciting switch that flips and a person becomes dull or exciting, depending on whether the observer finds the topic the person is speaking about interesting. The one at fault (such that there is any) for the lack of interest isn't usually the speaker, surely?
I have a friend who works in a field that most people absolutely find completely uninteresting (and, to be frank, I am also uninterested in the field in general), but when we sit and have a pint after work and have a chat, I can't help but be engaged because there is more to learn about everything, and while the technical minutiae of his trade is unexciting, the conversation is not. I know more about turbidity now than I ever expected or needed to, but I don't feel like it was time wasted.
Swap me out for an analog of your wife, and the guy flips from interesting to dull? That seems unfair, for some reason, not that fairness should really ever into it. Just because an interest isn't shared doesn't mean it should be derided as dull, right?
And, y'know, conversely, I know a dull guy. Like, I like to think I'm a good conversationalist. I can hold my own in a chat with basically anyone. But this guy. He sink-holes literally anything you try to say. One word answers. You can drag out the most maniacal story of the past few years of your life, a story that every single person you've ever talked to about it has been engaged and you get a good back and forth and a bit of patter, but this guy: "Oh, cool". And he's like that with everyone. Play word association, you say salt, I say pepper, you say this guy's name, I say dull. All of this seems really mean, but I'm pretty sure he's happy being that guy. I mean who knows what his actual inner thoughts about the matter might be, because you'll never get him to say anything worth listening to about it.
And this, I think, is probably the crux of why I'm so not on board with the way you see it. My friend and my boring friend are not the same, vis-a-vis in a dullness competition. They're not even in the same weight class.
You're both saying the same thing. Seemingly dull people become interesting depending on the audience, particularly when the dullee actively interviews the duller.
Ah, but perhaps you're proving the point? Is it not possible, if not probable, that the fellow you're referencing simply considers you dull? For instance I would, in general, tend to have little interest engaging with a good conversationalist, because I often find that that that, especially in an American context, boils down to inoffensive superficiality at length, owing to the nature of banter without purpose, which is what most conversation for the sake of conversation is.
For one who enjoys engaging in such, I'd certainly appear dull, because I'm not going to partake in it, especially if one starts overtly using my name repeatedly, because I find it dull and artificial. By contrast, express a novel or distinct perspective on something I find relevant, mastery of some interesting skill or whatever, and we'd certainly be having some fun.
There are two Dull Men's Clubs on Facebook. This article covers both.
Both have around 1.8M members. The smaller one features Andrew McKean, the main topic of that article. The other one--with the registered trademark symbol in the name on FB--appears to be more of a commercial enterprise, run by the Grover Click character.
I learned that the article is wrong on a point. All contemporary Dull Men's Clubs are copycats. The original is from 1980 and no longer exists.
Reminds me of the Dullest Blog in the World (https://dullestblog.com), which I frequently checked out more than 20 years ago. Hilarious to see a new entry just a couple years back.
Fascinating. The blog claims to be dull, and I am sure it is: but, it is no different from 'influencer content' except that those come with audiovisuals.
Reminds me of the proof that all natural numbers are interesting. If there is some set of uninteresting natural numbers, there must be a minimal element of that set. It being the smallest uninteresting number is interesting which is a contradiction.
Of course, it sort of a joke, and so having an element of surprise helps it. But really, the properties that make a number “interesting” should probably be defined from the outset. By including “the smallest member of any set is interesting,” at the start, the joke is kind of blown because the result becomes obvious, right?
Serious response? In that case the set still has a smallest member which can then be removed, if we keep going eventually there will be no uninteresting numbers remaining.
One of my most favorite places in nearby oregon is the community of Boring, OR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boring,_Oregon. Exceptionally lovely place. I've yet to visit it's sister town of Dull in Scotland, but I hope someday to remedy that, albeit with measured levels of excitement
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But after my kids were born I noticed something: my kids loved my voice, they listened to every sentence I made, they laughed at my quirky jokes I made and they loved when I sang to them or I brought them to the park or to the nursery and when I sat them on my neck. My wife took all that from me though, so now I need to fight to get my kids back.
But the moral of the story is: dullness is a matter of perspective. Even if you think you are dull, chances are you are not. It's just the world such a place now that the bar is raised too high that most ordinary people can't cross even by jumping over the moon.
So I don't care any more what others think of me. I came to accept my dullness and embraced it. If it bores others, I don't care.
You call yourself dull, but this short comment revealed the opposite picture. Kids are a lot more authentic than adults. Clearly they found a lot to enjoy about you.
> My wife took all that from me though, so now I need to fight to get my kids back.
There's an intense amount of suffering and courage in this statement which you tried to present in such a deadpan, flippant way.
> So I don't care any more what others think of me. I came to accept my dullness and embraced it. If it bores others, I don't care.
That's good, but I don't think you're actually dull or boring. Someone put that in your head and you accepted it.
I also did read the piece and recognize this "Dull man's club" is anything but. It's simply a tongue and cheek name for niche hobbies. I'm sure the hackers of the 80's/90's would have fit right in.
We sadly became more dull overtime in comparison as our hobbies all converged into the same few things. And even those few things could be interesting, but hobbies became so shallow. we watch TV but often don't analyze and critque it. We eat food but don't truly taste and savor its flavor. Being "dull" in my eyes means not truly interacting nor resonating with the things you do in your life.
That's everyday life for the vast majority of people, we got tricked by smoke and mirrors on social media into thinking life has to be something it isn't, most of what you see there is fake in part or in whole. People should just enjoy what they have/are instead of burning out running after made up things other people pretend to be doing to be happy
Not everyone works or thinks the same. Some goals and passions come from within, and for some people these can be the very reason for living.
One infinitesimal, geologically small moment where the universe is awake and alive and available for you. The world is an infinite blank canvas, and it's full of adventure.
Some people exist to do, build, or explore with their short time. Life is full of energy and opportunity to do so.
Some of these people would find the "traditional life" inescapably boring.
In the meantime, get a dog. They thrive in dull consistency and will love you for it. They will happily walk the same path each day and just sleep at your feet while you do what you need to do.
Some of my early experiences as an adult that broke my heart open a little were also with children - I don't have any of my own, but when my nephew and niece were young they were so open and enthusiastic and happy to see me it got past my wounded defense mechanisms.
This resonates a lot, and especially in "our community" of tech enthusiasts. I don't display enthusiasm about electronics, pcb design and assembly, with non nerdy people because I don't expect any form of interest (which is compounded by the assumption the person won't understand a word about it).
It got especially reinforced of late as I made a foray in woodworking to build myself a bookshelf from scratch with a custom design. There is something about non-tech hobbies that anyone can relate to (everyone was stoked by said bookshelf) that makes it easier to share. Even the layperson can grasp the design challenges faced in such hobbies, including nerdy but non tech ones (warhammer figurine painting is the first that comes to mind). OTOH when I show a custom-made PCB to someone, I just get a "ok cool".
> I wouldn't be surprised if I subconsciously have chosen friends who re-inforce those beliefs as well
There is also a strong tendency to vary friend groups and "get out of your bubble" if you think you're boring, to get "non-boring" people around you. Which can be healthy but highly frustrating, because you don't get to share stuff with them.
I can't wait to get children to share those interests with them.
Here's a summary:
Cliches work because they’re typically right on the money. Plus, kids don’t know most of them, so educators should use them. They’re a new audience and they’re inspired by cliches.
Dead Comment
Dead Comment
> But the moral of the story is: dullness is a matter of perspective.
Meh. Kids (or dogs) don't know better, they are just little love machines with literally 0 knowledge outside of you. That doesn't mean that dullness is a perspective, or they wouldn't benefit from it if you were just smarter, better, more interesting.
I think the point of the OP was to say that you don't need to be the best thing since sliced bread to get some basic love and companionship, which is the message modern dating and social media are sending to a lot of us.
You are enough, even if somebody in all resentfulness wants to have you believe otherwise.
Even the dullest of innocent jokes, delivered horribly, can get a chuckle in decent company. "Falls flat" means the "jokes" are inappropriate, mean, gross, *ist, etc. The phrase "colleagues or the opposite sex" is a tell.
There's an entire thread on the evolution of stapler design, elaborations on the invention of perforations, and abundant self-reflection. It's almost like a hybrid of Leonard Read's "I, Pencil" and Hegel.
There's something magical about paying close attention to the mundane, IMHO.
Praise dullness!
[0]:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mezzanine
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Attempt_at_Exhausting_a_Pla...
I'm not sure if it's the same thing as dullness though?
By virtue of the implied difference in demographics that's still a categorical change.
Gentlemen, have you heard The curious tale of Bhutan's playable record postage stamps (2015)? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44054775
Part of the point of DMC content is a solace from everyday stressors. That's a factor in why divisive topics--politics, religion, etc.--are discouraged when "main points" of a post.
I feel like this energy perfectly encapsulates what dull mans club is all about
I suppose it's no different to people that grind computer games to get 100% completion. A little dopamine hit each time that number edges up, followed by the satisfaction of having finally completed a long-sought goal.
Legendary.
I view this as a sign that the group has become too popular and lots its “edge” (which in this case was its authentic dullness), and now is just a place for farming likes and impressions from the broader FB community. A lot of it is quite derivative of other popular posts - “what is the purpose of this thing I found in my hotel/new house/grandma’s house” posts seems to be a really common theme, for example.
I have friends that play DnD which I personally find very dull but hearing them talk about it, it's clear they do not see it the same way. Conversely I love cars and talking about cars and I can talk with another gearhead for hours on the topic, but the times my wife has listened in on my conversations she said it was the most boring thing she has ever heard in her life.
You are most certainly right, but I don’t think that this is in contradiction with how the Club works. Everyone is dull and interesting depending on the situation and the audience. The Club is for when you found or saw something interesting and important to you, but your audience disagree, does not notice, or does not care.
Nobody is fundamentally dull, but everybody is being dull at some point.
Deleted Comment
It feels entirely backwards to me that there is some kind of dull/exciting switch that flips and a person becomes dull or exciting, depending on whether the observer finds the topic the person is speaking about interesting. The one at fault (such that there is any) for the lack of interest isn't usually the speaker, surely?
I have a friend who works in a field that most people absolutely find completely uninteresting (and, to be frank, I am also uninterested in the field in general), but when we sit and have a pint after work and have a chat, I can't help but be engaged because there is more to learn about everything, and while the technical minutiae of his trade is unexciting, the conversation is not. I know more about turbidity now than I ever expected or needed to, but I don't feel like it was time wasted.
Swap me out for an analog of your wife, and the guy flips from interesting to dull? That seems unfair, for some reason, not that fairness should really ever into it. Just because an interest isn't shared doesn't mean it should be derided as dull, right?
And, y'know, conversely, I know a dull guy. Like, I like to think I'm a good conversationalist. I can hold my own in a chat with basically anyone. But this guy. He sink-holes literally anything you try to say. One word answers. You can drag out the most maniacal story of the past few years of your life, a story that every single person you've ever talked to about it has been engaged and you get a good back and forth and a bit of patter, but this guy: "Oh, cool". And he's like that with everyone. Play word association, you say salt, I say pepper, you say this guy's name, I say dull. All of this seems really mean, but I'm pretty sure he's happy being that guy. I mean who knows what his actual inner thoughts about the matter might be, because you'll never get him to say anything worth listening to about it.
And this, I think, is probably the crux of why I'm so not on board with the way you see it. My friend and my boring friend are not the same, vis-a-vis in a dullness competition. They're not even in the same weight class.
Anyway. Perspectives. Weird, huh?
For one who enjoys engaging in such, I'd certainly appear dull, because I'm not going to partake in it, especially if one starts overtly using my name repeatedly, because I find it dull and artificial. By contrast, express a novel or distinct perspective on something I find relevant, mastery of some interesting skill or whatever, and we'd certainly be having some fun.
No kidding.
The one with the registered-trademark symbol--a Nebraskan who moved to the UK.
The other one--a Texan.
Both have around 1.8M members. The smaller one features Andrew McKean, the main topic of that article. The other one--with the registered trademark symbol in the name on FB--appears to be more of a commercial enterprise, run by the Grover Click character.
I learned that the article is wrong on a point. All contemporary Dull Men's Clubs are copycats. The original is from 1980 and no longer exists.
Edit: oh, are there uninteresting reals?
Perhaps the minimal element should be removed from the set; there will be plenty of members that still remain.