Actually I followed the thread a bit and it wasn't quite what I expected.
Paul got into a debate with Ted Mabrey, Global Head of Commercial at Palantir saying he'd delete his tweet if Ted would say Palantir won't help the US government violate the US constitution but he was unwilling to say that. Part of it: https://x.com/paulg/status/1913729703447241087
Blue check reply guys are generally awful and almost always reactionary.
I found this reply noteworthy [1]. For context, Gerry actively blocks many, many people on Twitter using some bot. This came up he became the CEO of YC as mahy people discovered they had seemingly been blocked [2]. Their crimes? Seemingly being in any way pro-affordable housing in California in general or San Francisco in particular.
So this reply is definitely on brand but it's also reactionary in a way than many of the purveyors of such opinions don't think is reactionary. In fact, you'll often find they view themselves as "apolitical" or talk about "common sense" solutions to problems. The "common sense" here is just concentration camps and stripping both citizens and non-citizens of due process.
Migrants haven't caused the houselessness problems in San Francisco: unaffordable housing has..
Every now and then since deleting my account I click on a link to an X post and am reminded I can't read the replies, and then I am thankful again to my past self for deleting my account. I urge everyone to delete the app and their accounts, realistically there are just much better sources of information nowadays. It's not worth the mental headache to get your news from X, which recently honestly hasn't even been good at delivering it.
It’s not as if Palantir is a co-op or something. If you work there you’re working on the things the bosses want.
They’re not going to turn around and say “gosh, you’re right, the tech we’re making is going to enable a police state, I never thought!”. They know. They’re fine with it.
Palantir is the police state. They are not redeemable, as they are fulfilling their original mission. I urge people to see what the founders say on X, chilling.
You think these tactics work at a company like Palantir? Or even most companies? That’s not how these power structures work. These companies tend to already filter for people who align with the built in politics and ethics of the product being produced.
I would encourage anyone to familiarize themselves with the "banality of evil" [1]. Interestingly, there's this quote that's very apropos today:
> “The ideal subject of totalitarian rule,” she also says, “is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced communist, but the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction no longer holds”
Anyway, the idea of this is "evil" is an accumulation of small, otherwise inocuous actions.
Consider the recent movie "Zone of Interest" that was set outside Auschwitz and never showed any of the atrocities. The whole point was that even on the steps of mass murder, life still appeared in many ways "normal" [2].
Asking honestly, eli5 please: what does Palantir make that is so bad? They make software for the police (and military etc.). I get that maybe the police does horrible things with it (not an American, don't want to argue either way). And sure, you can't say "hey I only make the software that optimises waterboarding, I don't do it myself" - that would very much be complicity.
My understanding of Palantir is it does things like, kinda boring CRUD/CRM type things, but for law enforcement. Like, the police got the warrant and data for mobile phone location, Palantir will plot it for you, provide some pretty basic analytics, but ultimately it integrates lots of different data types into something easy to read.
Is that so bad? I mean, again, I don't live in the US, but this, if I got it right, is exactly the kind of thing I'd hope the police do use. And if this is misused, that's very much a problem with the police, not the software. You shouldn't fix police excess by only providing them with insufficient tools. Just as you don't fix police brutality by taking away their guns and giving them water pistols instead.
But maybe I got it all wrong, happy to be corrected.
This is not entirely right. Palantir is a company that pitches surveillance and AI everywhere in government. From their own product page, they want "AI-Powered automation for every decision." I think this is a poor idea in general but especially in policing and government. Palantir has been caught creating a "pre-crime" algorithm[0], because they seem to have thought Minority Report was an inspiring movie. You can read a former Palantir employee talk about all of the delightfully fun stuff they get involved in like using AI in autonomous warfare[2].
On top of that I have a severe distaste for the founders. Peter Thiel is a psycho who, among other things, is a big fan of Curtis Yarvin and wants to bring monarchy to the US. Creator of smash hits like "I no longer think freedom and democracy are compatible."[1] You may be familiar with his protege, JD Vance. I wouldn't want this person running a police state company. Do not mistake Palantir as Tableau but for government.
Consider these examples [1]. There's absolutely no way to spin this:
> As an example of the evil nature of Palantir’s work, it appears that Palantir has been working with the Israeli military in so-called ‘targeted killings’. Reports have suggested such that these murders, probably in the thousands or tens of thousands, utilised social media information and cellphone tracking. According to a range of sources, over 150 Palestinian journalists have been killed in Gaza and in numerous cases they appear to have been directly targeted. Using social media information to murder journalists using drone strikes is already dystopic, but this is likely to just be the beginning of the evil Palantir will facilitate.
Alex Karp also tends to publish some extremely disturbing polemics about how 'The West' needs to remain dominant at all costs. For example: https://www.palantir.com/q4-2024-letter/en/
> We are still in the earliest stages, the beginning of the first act, of a revolution that will play out over years and decades... The unfortunate thing, either in business or politics, is that many of one’s adversaries and antagonists will never respond to anything but strength—that crude form of power that does not ask for but which requires compliance and deference... As Samuel Huntington has written, the rise of the West was not made possible “by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion . . . but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence.”
And that's an official letter to the shareholders. Like, what the fuck is that? You could tell people that these quotes came from a military dictator and they would not bat an eye.
Karp has a palpable savior complex and seems to relish the idea of applying violence against enemies of his desired world order.
Palantir is one of the worst companies that exist right now and I despise them. And this thread getting flagged is very disappointing, I would think "Paul Graham speaks about opportunities in tech" would be very relevant to HN.
It is relevant. There are a lot of folks trying to control all narratives regarding MAGA and the US move toward fascism and reactionary right wing populism, even if loosely affiliated, on here by eliminating content. That’s what fascists do after all. It’s not difficult in it being an open forum. Tech is intertwined with politics as it turns out, and a post by PG calling out Thiel is incredibly relevant to HN for obvious reasons.
Readit News
https://nitter.poast.org/paulg/status/1913338841068404903
Paul got into a debate with Ted Mabrey, Global Head of Commercial at Palantir saying he'd delete his tweet if Ted would say Palantir won't help the US government violate the US constitution but he was unwilling to say that. Part of it: https://x.com/paulg/status/1913729703447241087
I found this reply noteworthy [1]. For context, Gerry actively blocks many, many people on Twitter using some bot. This came up he became the CEO of YC as mahy people discovered they had seemingly been blocked [2]. Their crimes? Seemingly being in any way pro-affordable housing in California in general or San Francisco in particular.
So this reply is definitely on brand but it's also reactionary in a way than many of the purveyors of such opinions don't think is reactionary. In fact, you'll often find they view themselves as "apolitical" or talk about "common sense" solutions to problems. The "common sense" here is just concentration camps and stripping both citizens and non-citizens of due process.
Migrants haven't caused the houselessness problems in San Francisco: unaffordable housing has..
[1]: https://x.com/garrytan/status/1913345684872548676
[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32641557
What a clown.
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1. People who are sympathetic to these concerns, and more likely to change thinking from within or whistleblow if needed.
2. Everyone left over who are pro police state and fascism?
OP’s post would only fill Palantir with the second group. This seems more dangerous than to fill it with a diverse crowd.
They’re not going to turn around and say “gosh, you’re right, the tech we’re making is going to enable a police state, I never thought!”. They know. They’re fine with it.
> “The ideal subject of totalitarian rule,” she also says, “is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced communist, but the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction no longer holds”
Anyway, the idea of this is "evil" is an accumulation of small, otherwise inocuous actions.
Consider the recent movie "Zone of Interest" that was set outside Auschwitz and never showed any of the atrocities. The whole point was that even on the steps of mass murder, life still appeared in many ways "normal" [2].
[1]: https://www.thebritishacademy.ac.uk/blog/hannah-arendts-less...
[2]: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/12/18/the-zone-of-in...
A pacifist with a gun is likely to shoot.
So pacifists should join in great numbers.
My understanding of Palantir is it does things like, kinda boring CRUD/CRM type things, but for law enforcement. Like, the police got the warrant and data for mobile phone location, Palantir will plot it for you, provide some pretty basic analytics, but ultimately it integrates lots of different data types into something easy to read.
Is that so bad? I mean, again, I don't live in the US, but this, if I got it right, is exactly the kind of thing I'd hope the police do use. And if this is misused, that's very much a problem with the police, not the software. You shouldn't fix police excess by only providing them with insufficient tools. Just as you don't fix police brutality by taking away their guns and giving them water pistols instead.
But maybe I got it all wrong, happy to be corrected.
On top of that I have a severe distaste for the founders. Peter Thiel is a psycho who, among other things, is a big fan of Curtis Yarvin and wants to bring monarchy to the US. Creator of smash hits like "I no longer think freedom and democracy are compatible."[1] You may be familiar with his protege, JD Vance. I wouldn't want this person running a police state company. Do not mistake Palantir as Tableau but for government.
[0] https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/27/17054740/palantir-predict...
[1] https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/donald-trump...
[2] https://zigguratmag.substack.com/p/the-guernica-of-ai-c4b?tr...
> As an example of the evil nature of Palantir’s work, it appears that Palantir has been working with the Israeli military in so-called ‘targeted killings’. Reports have suggested such that these murders, probably in the thousands or tens of thousands, utilised social media information and cellphone tracking. According to a range of sources, over 150 Palestinian journalists have been killed in Gaza and in numerous cases they appear to have been directly targeted. Using social media information to murder journalists using drone strikes is already dystopic, but this is likely to just be the beginning of the evil Palantir will facilitate.
More on Lavender [2].
[1]: https://politicaleconomist.substack.com/p/palantir-the-world...
[2]: https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/
Alex Karp also tends to publish some extremely disturbing polemics about how 'The West' needs to remain dominant at all costs. For example: https://www.palantir.com/q4-2024-letter/en/
> We are still in the earliest stages, the beginning of the first act, of a revolution that will play out over years and decades... The unfortunate thing, either in business or politics, is that many of one’s adversaries and antagonists will never respond to anything but strength—that crude form of power that does not ask for but which requires compliance and deference... As Samuel Huntington has written, the rise of the West was not made possible “by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion . . . but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence.”
And that's an official letter to the shareholders. Like, what the fuck is that? You could tell people that these quotes came from a military dictator and they would not bat an eye.
Karp has a palpable savior complex and seems to relish the idea of applying violence against enemies of his desired world order.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaughterbots
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