I'm really fortunate to be in a very outdoors and offline community that values our personal ties above most things. We spend a lot time playing music around campfires, backpacking in the mountains, and cooking up good food together. We spend the hard times together too. Sometimes you drop everything to go winch a buddy's truck out of the mud, help someone move, or take five hours of your day to go on a hike long enough to really talk about what a breakup means.
I'm back in a city for a bit, hanging out with a more mainstream crowd, and the difference has been jarring. Dinner means an hour or two in a busy restaurant. Playing music is a planned event with low priority amongst busy schedules. Nobody helps eachother move, there's an app for that.
I'm shocked to see how quickly those norms have changed how I interact with people! I'm ashamed that I drove past a guy who clearly needed a hand changing his tire when I had my impact in my truck earlier. I don't know who I would call in this group for more than an hour over a beer to talk through heavy stuff without feeling I was imposing. I'm spending time with far more people, and on paper I'm doing so many things, but we're all a lot lonelier in this crowded place than my group and I were out in the woods.
Luckily it's a simple fix. I'll get back to focusing on my people soon, and will give them the effort and time that keeps us all thriving amidst the social wasteland. I don't necessarily need to leave the city to do that, but it's a lot easier to see what's important out past the pavement.
I read the wikipedia summary, and it was full of half-truths or outright lies.
>small state is internally democratic and its government has to serve the individual
This has never been true, there is no relationship at all between size and democratic nature. In fact, I'd argue the opposite: small societies are more oppressive.
Neither has there been any relationship between "small states" and Peace. Again, one can see the opposite throughout History.
>disputed territories such as Alsace could become autonomous or sovereign instead
...Not even wrong.
>He predicts that the unity of the Western world will be realised by "by every Frenchman, Dutchman, or Italian becoming an American".
>A nation that lacks interpersonal relationships is a lower-trust society, more prone to crime and unrest.
That seems to unfortunately track. No bonds, less to lose by lashing out. A Mexican idiom comes to mind:
El Que Tranza, No Avanza ("he who doesn't cheat, doesn't get ahead")
So when you dehumanize your fellow man, life is just a rat race and you don't care who you step over to succeed. Not really a nation make.
>The reasons aren’t clear, but it may be that colleges have become more of a social experience than an educational one over the last few decades
Well I guess that's the part that reminds me this is still the NY post. It's an odd conclusion to come to when they report that friendships merely declined less than Hgih School students, not remained steady. It's not surprising that an environment of young adults with newfound freedom would form closer bonds than those on high school forced together with a rigid 5 class schedule that has much less control. College students can schedule entire days off, or no morning classes, skip a class with minumum fuss. That means more potential time to socialize outside of the weekends or 4-7pm on weekends.
>Last year one study found a full 25% of young adults “believe that AI has the potential to replace real-life romantic relationships.”
Well that's just depressing. Are a significant portion of the population really going to try to replace human bonds with AI too? We were supposed to reject the notion of Her (2018) and realize the human element can't be automated. Not follow it like a blueprint.
It's easier than ever to make friends. When you switch from a demand mindset to a supply mindset, the opportunities present themselves.
Think of it this way, all those lonely people out there are just waiting for someone to reach out and do something with? It's like shooting fish in a barrel.
I'm able to get out on average 10hrs/week just socializing without much effort by just putting myself out there and making events happen when and how I want them. If there's no existing group that interests you, chances are that if you make what you want, other people will be interested too.
100% I've had great success inviting people to dinner parties and such. This works great for people I already know.
I've tried hosting public groups, with partial success. Have you got any ideas there?
I've tried posting events on local Facebook groups, mostly. But my experience is that very few people are actually active online and willing to physically do something.
Success really depends on the pool you're drawing from. A public open invite on FB is one of the hardest approaches. Kudos to the people who can pull it off.
The easiest for me was using my city's discord server as a launch pad for running book clubs, coffee meetups, and hikes. After a few successes, it's easy to gain a reputation for making things happen and it sort of snowballs from there.
> I've tried hosting public groups, with partial success. Have you got any ideas there?
It is way easier if you give away free food. Like, it could be coffee or donuts. It just have to be some token value, such that people don't feel that they only go there for the nominal reason if the event sucks.
When my local party has like booths talking with voters we have like cookies and coffee such that there is an indirect reason to stand there talking to us. Some sort of plausible denialability.
Also, there is the automatic social aspect of food.
In areas where the website is still viable, I've found that Meetup is a reasonable way to socialize and find recreational events with limited pressure in a public location.
For example, I enjoy board gaming, and used to use Meetup in the South because I found it difficult to make friends being an outsider in the South. Meetup was relatively helpful for going to a restaurant, just sitting down, having meal, and playing board games for several hours. And several of those then turned into roleplaying groups, social groups, and similar external to the Meetup.
On a quick search, most major cities seem to have board gaming groups:
Most are relatively free of cost, supported by businesses that have an interest in regular attendees visiting the stores and buying a few small products each time they attend (meal, drinks, snacks, ect...) A couple are gaming stores that ask for a small rental fee or offer free table space if you want to bring your own games.
It’s not because friendships are largely made from shared suffering.
In a time of further independence, over choice, and tech to hold onto previous friends, making friends who actually will physically meet up with you frequently is definitely harder.
I wouldn't put it in the same league as dating, but it still has that element where effort doesn't correlate with success, or at least you personally perceive it as so. You can try to schedule plenty of get together and still feel like loose colleagues. Or sometimes you randomly invite someone at the 11th hour and now you're best friends who meet every week. That can be a bit frustrating for someone perhaps someonhwre on the neuro divergent spectrum.
But in a way, yes. Shared moments of triumph or suffering can accelerate that process. Those aren't necessarily moments you can always replicate, though.
Not surprised. Every relationship in America is transactional. Work is cut throat especially at stacked ranking companies. This country is basically a social Darwinian hellhole. Friendships here seem try and extract the most value from others.
I have an incredibly close circle of friends thankfully.
> We’ve long pondered why the marriage rate, and the corresponding birth rate, has plummeted in America. Answers often focus on financial stressors: Young Americans can’t afford a home like their parents could at their age, some speculate; others blame limited parental leave or poor day-care options.
> Perhaps — but the corresponding slump in close friendships doesn’t add up. People can still afford to make friends, can’t they?
Again, this is some ivory tower kind of nonsense. Of course if you can't afford to host people (no space), if you can't bond with other parents because you cannot be a parent, if you can't afford to leave your kids (with daycare or a carer) to socialize, how the hell are you supposed to invest the time in close friendships? And also, not being able to afford to invest in friendship makes total sense to affect the working class.
Agreed. Friendship kinda costs money. I had a friend loose a job like a year ago. I used to see them every other week but it became like twice a year while they were broke.
Friendship can also be an economic net positive, it mostly depends on how you’re interacting. Watching each other's kids at home creates extra free time. Having an extra hand and different set of tools when working on home projects is a net gain which means you can be better off while helping each other etc.
However, so much of how people spend their free is consumptive that hanging out has become increasingly expensive.
The article may be a bunch of slop but there is something deeply cultural in the US that is contributing to this. Not being able to afford things or social media or pretty much anything that gets the blame for the “loneliness pandemic” isn’t unique to the US.
My personal experience has been that the same individualistic culture that allows people to do whatever they want and become whoever they want, that yields great results in a lot of aspects of life, also results in weaker relationships with others. At some point prioritizing oneself over everything else starts taking a toll on relationships. Do you really stop seeing a friend because they can’t afford to go places? Or do you stop seeing them because you are not willing to change your wants and not meet them somewhere that they can afford to go?
It's not unique to the US but there are factors that accelerate the lack of ability to freely be around people.Some a unique-ish societal problem (declines of US malls while EU is fine)
. And part of that is indeed cultural attitude.
>Do you really stop seeing a friend because they can’t afford to go places?
On a personal level, it's because I was traditionally the one planning get togethers, and then life got rough and I just planned less with no one to step up. Maybe they are also on hard times, maybe they had other groups they prioritized. Hard to tell.
I still try to at least check up once and a while remotely, but I do miss those times.
> Not being able to afford things or social media or pretty much anything that gets the blame for the “loneliness pandemic” isn’t unique to the US.
No, I think not being able to afford things contributing to a loneliness pandemic is also visible in other cultures where people are expected to work a ton for not enough money like South Korea.
"if you can't afford to leave your kids (with daycare or a carer) "
- some lawnmower parents won't even their kids with close relatives
- many apparently bought into the "nuclear family" (parent[s] + kids) and not the extended family. About the extended family, or the replacement by a close neighborhood group, parents are on their own - - and that's a recipe for disaster.
Readit News
I'm back in a city for a bit, hanging out with a more mainstream crowd, and the difference has been jarring. Dinner means an hour or two in a busy restaurant. Playing music is a planned event with low priority amongst busy schedules. Nobody helps eachother move, there's an app for that.
I'm shocked to see how quickly those norms have changed how I interact with people! I'm ashamed that I drove past a guy who clearly needed a hand changing his tire when I had my impact in my truck earlier. I don't know who I would call in this group for more than an hour over a beer to talk through heavy stuff without feeling I was imposing. I'm spending time with far more people, and on paper I'm doing so many things, but we're all a lot lonelier in this crowded place than my group and I were out in the woods.
Luckily it's a simple fix. I'll get back to focusing on my people soon, and will give them the effort and time that keeps us all thriving amidst the social wasteland. I don't necessarily need to leave the city to do that, but it's a lot easier to see what's important out past the pavement.
>small state is internally democratic and its government has to serve the individual
This has never been true, there is no relationship at all between size and democratic nature. In fact, I'd argue the opposite: small societies are more oppressive.
Neither has there been any relationship between "small states" and Peace. Again, one can see the opposite throughout History.
>disputed territories such as Alsace could become autonomous or sovereign instead
...Not even wrong.
>He predicts that the unity of the Western world will be realised by "by every Frenchman, Dutchman, or Italian becoming an American".
A prediction completely wrong.
A theory completely disconnected from Reality.
That seems to unfortunately track. No bonds, less to lose by lashing out. A Mexican idiom comes to mind:
El Que Tranza, No Avanza ("he who doesn't cheat, doesn't get ahead")
So when you dehumanize your fellow man, life is just a rat race and you don't care who you step over to succeed. Not really a nation make.
>The reasons aren’t clear, but it may be that colleges have become more of a social experience than an educational one over the last few decades
Well I guess that's the part that reminds me this is still the NY post. It's an odd conclusion to come to when they report that friendships merely declined less than Hgih School students, not remained steady. It's not surprising that an environment of young adults with newfound freedom would form closer bonds than those on high school forced together with a rigid 5 class schedule that has much less control. College students can schedule entire days off, or no morning classes, skip a class with minumum fuss. That means more potential time to socialize outside of the weekends or 4-7pm on weekends.
>Last year one study found a full 25% of young adults “believe that AI has the potential to replace real-life romantic relationships.”
Well that's just depressing. Are a significant portion of the population really going to try to replace human bonds with AI too? We were supposed to reject the notion of Her (2018) and realize the human element can't be automated. Not follow it like a blueprint.
You got the exact opposite of what that means. Unless you forgot to negate Tranza.
"El que NO Tranza, NO avanza"
Source: Native Spanish Speaker.
How embarrassing. But yes, I'm sure I missed the first no.
Think of it this way, all those lonely people out there are just waiting for someone to reach out and do something with? It's like shooting fish in a barrel.
I'm able to get out on average 10hrs/week just socializing without much effort by just putting myself out there and making events happen when and how I want them. If there's no existing group that interests you, chances are that if you make what you want, other people will be interested too.
I've tried hosting public groups, with partial success. Have you got any ideas there?
I've tried posting events on local Facebook groups, mostly. But my experience is that very few people are actually active online and willing to physically do something.
The easiest for me was using my city's discord server as a launch pad for running book clubs, coffee meetups, and hikes. After a few successes, it's easy to gain a reputation for making things happen and it sort of snowballs from there.
It is way easier if you give away free food. Like, it could be coffee or donuts. It just have to be some token value, such that people don't feel that they only go there for the nominal reason if the event sucks.
When my local party has like booths talking with voters we have like cookies and coffee such that there is an indirect reason to stand there talking to us. Some sort of plausible denialability.
Also, there is the automatic social aspect of food.
For example, I enjoy board gaming, and used to use Meetup in the South because I found it difficult to make friends being an outsider in the South. Meetup was relatively helpful for going to a restaurant, just sitting down, having meal, and playing board games for several hours. And several of those then turned into roleplaying groups, social groups, and similar external to the Meetup.
On a quick search, most major cities seem to have board gaming groups:
Seattle: https://www.meetup.com/gearhouse-events/events/306262711/?re...
Los Angeles: https://www.meetup.com/los-angeles-werewolf-meetup-group/eve...
New York: https://www.meetup.com/new-york-games-nights-meetup-group/ev...
Atlanta: https://www.meetup.com/agguild/events/306018016/?recId=cd815...
Philadelphia: https://www.meetup.com/montco-board-games/events/304398746/?...
Chicago: https://www.meetup.com/chicagogames/events/306090271/?recId=...
Fort Worth: https://www.meetup.com/fort-worth-board-game-club/events/304...
Minneapolis / Saint Paul: https://www.meetup.com/saintpaulgamegroup/events/306244052/?...
Denver: https://www.meetup.com/meetupdenvermplusz/events/306229426/?...
Most are relatively free of cost, supported by businesses that have an interest in regular attendees visiting the stores and buying a few small products each time they attend (meal, drinks, snacks, ect...) A couple are gaming stores that ask for a small rental fee or offer free table space if you want to bring your own games.
In a time of further independence, over choice, and tech to hold onto previous friends, making friends who actually will physically meet up with you frequently is definitely harder.
But in a way, yes. Shared moments of triumph or suffering can accelerate that process. Those aren't necessarily moments you can always replicate, though.
Isolationism at every level of society. From friends, neighbours, people with a different background, other nations.
Future looks really depressing.
> We’ve long pondered why the marriage rate, and the corresponding birth rate, has plummeted in America. Answers often focus on financial stressors: Young Americans can’t afford a home like their parents could at their age, some speculate; others blame limited parental leave or poor day-care options.
> Perhaps — but the corresponding slump in close friendships doesn’t add up. People can still afford to make friends, can’t they?
Again, this is some ivory tower kind of nonsense. Of course if you can't afford to host people (no space), if you can't bond with other parents because you cannot be a parent, if you can't afford to leave your kids (with daycare or a carer) to socialize, how the hell are you supposed to invest the time in close friendships? And also, not being able to afford to invest in friendship makes total sense to affect the working class.
This article is a bunch of illogical slop.
However, so much of how people spend their free is consumptive that hanging out has become increasingly expensive.
> Americans with college degrees experienced a similar but less steep drop.
They are saying the same thing as you on that point.
My personal experience has been that the same individualistic culture that allows people to do whatever they want and become whoever they want, that yields great results in a lot of aspects of life, also results in weaker relationships with others. At some point prioritizing oneself over everything else starts taking a toll on relationships. Do you really stop seeing a friend because they can’t afford to go places? Or do you stop seeing them because you are not willing to change your wants and not meet them somewhere that they can afford to go?
>Do you really stop seeing a friend because they can’t afford to go places?
On a personal level, it's because I was traditionally the one planning get togethers, and then life got rough and I just planned less with no one to step up. Maybe they are also on hard times, maybe they had other groups they prioritized. Hard to tell.
I still try to at least check up once and a while remotely, but I do miss those times.
No, I think not being able to afford things contributing to a loneliness pandemic is also visible in other cultures where people are expected to work a ton for not enough money like South Korea.
- some lawnmower parents won't even their kids with close relatives
- many apparently bought into the "nuclear family" (parent[s] + kids) and not the extended family. About the extended family, or the replacement by a close neighborhood group, parents are on their own - - and that's a recipe for disaster.
Well, yeah, its the NY Post. Slop is all they ever publish.
https://youtu.be/72Fn9bfZANk?si=TKGVfcXFINCz_Tin
What would you expect to happen in actual 3D reality, when everyone thinks their "real life" is in their Call of DooDoo raid group?
kek...