My dad was one these ARVN soldiers. In the final days of the war he and his drill sergeant stole a helicopter as Saigon fell and flew west, expecting to keep fighting. They wound up in a refugee camp in Thailand and eventually made it to the US. He wouldn't see his family again until Clinton normalized relations with Vietnam 20 years later.
In those final moments, soldiers who knew how to fly took whatever aircraft they could get their hands on, (Chinooks, Hueys, Cessnas, etc.) and flew aimlessly, hoping to run into friendly forces along the way before their fuel ran out.
People get so tangled up in the geopolitics of these types of conflicts, and forget that every person the war touched has a personal story.
I’ve known quite a few Vietnamese who lived through the conflict and their stories, no matter how lucky they were, the stories are incredible and hard to comprehend, no matter which side and whether they suffered horribly or made it out real relatively unscathed.
Whether fleeing at a moments notice from your country of birth, never knowing where you are going or whether you’ll ever return. Or even the stories of people seeing the end and planning in advance what they will need and how to make sure family is ok.
Then you think about the scale of it and that tens of millions of humans went through it and it’s impossible to comprehend the scale of it.
What is really remarkable is the resiliency of humans. You speak to people who went through it and realize many have the perspective of “you did what you had to do” and “its a part of my life that is over now”, but try and imagine how hard it must be to live in a country of relative peace and see all these people around you who have never, and will never, go through anything similar, and try and have it all make sense.
It’s also really fascinating talking to people who stayed in South Vietnam after. The entire system is reset. The police, the government, even where you get your food is swept away and rebuilt. I’ve noticed many people thrive on rumors as the government isn’t known for transparency. Days after the war order is restored and you hear rumors of what will come. Neighbors gossip, you do your best to prepare and wait.
> It’s also really fascinating talking to people who stayed in South Vietnam after. The entire system is reset.
It took me a while to appreciate the significance of renaming Saigon to Ho Chi Minh City. I've lived in HCMC (although I'm not Vietnamese) and the renaming is actually controversial to this day, although most Vietnamese know better than to speak up about it.
Basically, imagine if Russia conquered Ukraine and then renamed Kyiv to "Vladimir Putin City".
The photo of a man carrying a baby and a woman by his side in the article is not of Buang Ly. The naval institute even has a video of the actual landing here:
They have one of the SBD Dauntless dive bombers at the museum that sunk a Japanese carrier at Midway. Still has holes in it from AA fire if I recall correctly.
Thanks—I think that's the story I was remembering.
If I'm getting this right, these are two different stories involving different pilots and different aircraft but they happened on the same day! (April 29, 1975)
What a story! Just wild that so many helicopters were destroyed. But everyone on board the ship must have been so gratified that all five children survived.
If you ever have a chance, talk to Vietnamese immigrants that you work with, and hear their stories of escape. Nearly everyone I've spoken to has a book or movie-worthy tale to tell.
Many went through tough times after the war was over and left years later.
That applies equally to most people having been through war and becoming refugees. I know a couple of people who fled from Afghanistan, and that wasn't exactly a cakewalk. Like "my brother was forced to enroll in the talibans and got killed, so they ordered my father to provide another fighter, so he decided to make me escape to Iran instead at age 13, from where I walked / hitchhiked to Sweden in 2 years"
The Sympathizer/The Committed though fictional have many details that match the stories of different people I know, with the taking off from Saigon airfield while under attack from NVA to others escaping on a boat with only the hope of being picked up by friendlies of some stripe and avoiding pirates or others who could only escape in any case with some of their immediate family and had to get the rest reunited years later. Not a few of the ones old enough to remember the details though are getting scarce simply because of age (some of the people I know were too young to remember anything and had to rely on their parents memories).
I worked with a Vietnamese lady for many years. She refused to ever talk about her escape. She would simply only say, "I was very young. It was bad. I don't like to remember it."
The brain has this nice thing of removing traumatizing memories so that it can move on. Asking people about these things is not a good idea. Just let them recount the tales if they want.
I remember seeing women on the sides of the highway in one part of town gathering plants to eat, there's plenty of edible stuff out there, and my parents telling me they were refugees. Must have been in '74/'75 and I was a wee lad. In a Southern state.
My parents were PhDs from Berkley and UCLA who got positions in the south so it was a weird time and place. For everyone.
There's no doubt that racism played a role, but a lot of the bitterness was more related to the fact that a huge influx of people, some of them very desperate, arrived and worked in the shrimping industry for low wages and in terrible conditions. This cut the rest of of the labor market off at the knees.
Suddenly a lot of people who had had the job for years, and had maybe been doing it for generations as a family trade, either lost their job or were unable to carry it out profitably.
the 'luxury' apt building I live in has lots of Ukrainians and Russians (amongst the tech, influencers and onlyfans merchants, the only stateside people that can seemingly afford this location)
the men have really harrowing stories of escaping their respective countries since they weren't allowed to leave, being draftable
the 'luxury' apt building I live in has lots of Ukrainians and Russians… the men have really harrowing stories of escaping their respective countries since they weren't allowed to leave, being draftable
My next-door neighbor is one of them.
We were on nodding terms in the hallway for about six months after he moved in, then one day I saw him at the trash chute wearing a "Fuck Putin" shirt, and I asked him about it. He started to tell me his story, and then suddenly stopped, saying he didn't want to talk about it anymore.
Based on the start of the story, I can understand him not wanting to finish it.
Great to see a story about the USS Midway. It is currently decommissioned and permanently docked in San Diego as a museum for the public. I've been there - on the very landing strip seen in the photos. Really humbled to have visited such a key part of US history.
Readit News
In those final moments, soldiers who knew how to fly took whatever aircraft they could get their hands on, (Chinooks, Hueys, Cessnas, etc.) and flew aimlessly, hoping to run into friendly forces along the way before their fuel ran out.
I’ve known quite a few Vietnamese who lived through the conflict and their stories, no matter how lucky they were, the stories are incredible and hard to comprehend, no matter which side and whether they suffered horribly or made it out real relatively unscathed.
Whether fleeing at a moments notice from your country of birth, never knowing where you are going or whether you’ll ever return. Or even the stories of people seeing the end and planning in advance what they will need and how to make sure family is ok.
Then you think about the scale of it and that tens of millions of humans went through it and it’s impossible to comprehend the scale of it.
What is really remarkable is the resiliency of humans. You speak to people who went through it and realize many have the perspective of “you did what you had to do” and “its a part of my life that is over now”, but try and imagine how hard it must be to live in a country of relative peace and see all these people around you who have never, and will never, go through anything similar, and try and have it all make sense.
It’s also really fascinating talking to people who stayed in South Vietnam after. The entire system is reset. The police, the government, even where you get your food is swept away and rebuilt. I’ve noticed many people thrive on rumors as the government isn’t known for transparency. Days after the war order is restored and you hear rumors of what will come. Neighbors gossip, you do your best to prepare and wait.
It took me a while to appreciate the significance of renaming Saigon to Ho Chi Minh City. I've lived in HCMC (although I'm not Vietnamese) and the renaming is actually controversial to this day, although most Vietnamese know better than to speak up about it.
Basically, imagine if Russia conquered Ukraine and then renamed Kyiv to "Vladimir Putin City".
https://www.facebook.com/NavalInstitute/videos/1638823169892...
https://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675069507_evacuation-of...
What’s especially wild is that we actually have footage of this event.
I highly recommend the Naval Aviation Museum if you ever find yourself in Pensacola or nearby!
They have one of the SBD Dauntless dive bombers at the museum that sunk a Japanese carrier at Midway. Still has holes in it from AA fire if I recall correctly.
Any person who enjoys military/naval history will love this museum. It’s very well maintained and just has some of the coolest stuff in it.
A South Vietnamese Air Force Officer and a Crazy Carrier Landing (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17991021 - Sept 2018 (67 comments)
I vaguely recall that there have been other threads about this too. Can anyone find them?
(Reposts are fine after a year or so; links to past threads are just to satisfy extra-curious readers)
How a Vietnamese helicopter pilot saved his family - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9462885 - April 2015 (15 comments)
If I'm getting this right, these are two different stories involving different pilots and different aircraft but they happened on the same day! (April 29, 1975)
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Many went through tough times after the war was over and left years later.
Suddenly a lot of people who had had the job for years, and had maybe been doing it for generations as a family trade, either lost their job or were unable to carry it out profitably.
the men have really harrowing stories of escaping their respective countries since they weren't allowed to leave, being draftable
and its all very current and ongoing
My next-door neighbor is one of them.
We were on nodding terms in the hallway for about six months after he moved in, then one day I saw him at the trash chute wearing a "Fuck Putin" shirt, and I asked him about it. He started to tell me his story, and then suddenly stopped, saying he didn't want to talk about it anymore.
Based on the start of the story, I can understand him not wanting to finish it.
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My in-laws are immigrants from Vietnam who left during the war. These stories feel a little closer to home than they would have before meeting them.