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Posted by u/HughParry 8 months ago
Ask HN: Why buy domains and 301 redirect them to me?
Say I'm running a SaaS product, example.com.

Somebody has bought several domains like getexample.com, buyexample.io, joinexample.net, and is 301 redirecting them to example.com.

What's their play here? Is this setup for a phishing attack in the future? Are they just going to try and sell the domains to me in the future? Not encountered behaviour like this before (or at least, I don't know if this is the beginning phase of a common scam)

TrueDuality · 8 months ago
As others have mentioned this is likely one of a couple of scenarios, roughly ordered by my guess on likelihood:

- Attempting to use your legitimate content and services to improve the SEO rank of other domains (even unrelated ones). This can usually be checked by looking for a sitemap.xml, there will be pages not redirected to your site that contain pages of links.

- Closely following the above, the pages may not be links to other sites but might be hosting phishing pages for other services unrelated to yours. The redirect here acts as a bluff for casual inspection of the domain. You won't see page entries in a sitemap.xml file for these ones.

- Attempting to "age" a domain. Not many talk about this option, but new domains are a red flag to a lot of automated security processes. When purchasing a domain and giving it a history associated with a legitimate service they make the domain look less suspicious for future malicious use.

- Preparation for a targeted campaign. This is pretty unlikely, you need to be really worth a dedicated long term campaign effort specifically against you or your company. If you're doing controversial/novel research, are managing millions of dollars, performing a service a state actor would object to, or have high profile clientele then maybe you fall into this category. These are patient campaigns and want to make the domain "feel normal and official". They won't do anything public with the domain such as SEO tweaking or link spam, they'll use these domains only for specific targeted one-off low-noise attacks. They're relying on staff to see that the domain has been connected to your service for years and is likely just a domain someone in marketing purchased and forgot about. This is exceptionally rare.

IncreasePosts · 8 months ago
Regarding point two, OP should connect to a VPN in Japan or somewhere he very isn't, use incognito mode, and see if the same content is served. I've seen hacked sites that are set up to serve normal content to where the attacker thinks the owner of the site lives, but serve phishing content or malware or whatever to everywhere else.

A 301 fits that bill because then the owners browser even when traveling will serve the good content

preinheimer · 8 months ago
Our service testlocal.ly can grab screenshots for you from different countries really quickly if you want a free check.
jasongill · 8 months ago
I have seen attacks where directly visiting the site doesn't show anything out of the ordinary, but visits coming from Google (referer) show different content. Have also seen ones where only User-Agent: Googlebot would see the modified version of the site.

(I doubt that is the case in OP's situation, but I have seen both of those methods of "hiding" multiple times now)

nneonneo · 8 months ago
Or, try a mobile user-agent. I've seen loads of phishing pages that will only serve their malicious payloads to phones - this is especially common with the scams that are sent via SMS.
TrueDuality · 8 months ago
Yeah this is a good call-out. If the site is being used for drive-by or targeted malware there are other checks that may be happening alongside the redirect such as user agent, country of origin (like you mentioned), plugins installed, OS, or even time of day.

If they detect something that matches what they want, they may throw some intermediate 301's to pages that attempt to infect the user with something still ultimately redirecting to the "normal" page.

saalweachter · 8 months ago
Try curling the urls with a referrer of Google.

There's a related site compromise where a hacked webserver behaves normally except, when the referrer is google.com, it adds a JavaScript redirect to the end of any page.

You go to example.com, everything looks normal. You click a link to example.com, you end up on a page selling herbal dick pills. Site owner yells at Google thinking it's their fault. Googlebot never gets served the redirect.

You should be able to do the same thing with 301 redirects.

meigwilym · 8 months ago
I think the first one is pretty likely.

OP, you can search for "site:getexample.com" which will list you any pages that have been indexed for that domain. They might have just redirected the homepage. Worth a shot.

timewizard · 8 months ago
I would expect the certificate mismatch to prevent this.
dccoolgai · 8 months ago
It could be a combo of 1 and 3: a competitor (or someone who thinks they might be in the future) ages those domains, then points it to their own product later.
TrueDuality · 8 months ago
This is another great call-out and semi-common. I can definitely get blinded by my security focus but shady business tactics drive a lot of these similar domain purchases for exactly the reason you described.
HenryBemis · 8 months ago
Bait and switch? Get users t bookmark the joinexample.com, and the others, and once they notice that people keep going to your side via their domain names, they will switch, make a fake "change password" and will be ripped off.
xg15 · 7 months ago
Just speculating here, but would it be possible that the redirecting domains could actually overtake the original site in terms of search rank, etc? If yes, this could be preparation for a semi-targeted phishing campaign:

1) set up plausibly-named fake domains that redirect to example.com

2) ensure that the fake domains rank higher than the original domain for "example" searches.

3) after a while, people have gotten used to accessing the service through the fake domains or might even think those are the official domains.

4) pull up the net by replacing the redirect with phishing pages. Suddenly, everyone googling for the service will end up on a phishing site, without any obvious way to fix the situation.

Phishers could also run this scheme for lots of sites in parallel, without needing to have some specific interest in any of them.

Edit: Seems like the semantics of the 301 redirect should prevent this from working though.

naveensky · 8 months ago
one another scenario is that if you open the domain from browser, they will do 301 redirect, but for traffic coming from Google/search engine, they will show their actual content.
maltelandwehr · 8 months ago
If this is done with SEO in mind, at first they will also do a redirect for Google Bot.

Then they build links to their domains. Once it has more backlinks than the real domain, the redirect is removed.

tracker1 · 8 months ago
I'd add canonical link elements to your html and http headers in order to reduce the chances of subversion somehow. The whole thing feels really weird to me.
welder · 8 months ago
I'll add another scenario I've personally experienced:

- Reaching out in good-faith with an offer to sell the domain to you. I've had that happen in the past and before receiving the email the person directed the domain to my official website to show good will. I purchased the domain and now own it.

Not saying this is the case here, but just wanted to throw a legitimate scenario into the mix. They should have reached out by now if this was the case.

ardillamorris · 8 months ago
Their play is to send emails with those domains but in the emails claiming to be you and when people reading the email go to the domain, they see your page (they got redirected).
ElijahLynn · 8 months ago
This sounds like the most plausible hypothesis.
motoxpro · 8 months ago
Wow. Yeah that's genius. It would definitely catch me as I just visit the domain to see if it's legit and don't think about redirects. e.g. gogle.com -> google.com
pinoy420 · 8 months ago
Nothing new. I used to create fake, for example, myspace login pages, host them somewhere, harvest the credentials then redirect back to myspace.com login
phoe-krk · 8 months ago
They'll weaponize them at some point. How exactly is to be seen, but if people associate your product with domains you do not control (e.g. via SEO searches and hyperlinks left in public places), then everyone is on the hook the moment these domains stop redirecting to your service.
eastbound · 8 months ago
Yes, they can send legit-looking email with getexample.com, then people will accept those emails as trusted, such as lifecycle emails.

Then they send an invoice…

bhouston · 8 months ago
I haven't seen this before but back in the early 2010s I had some India-based group that iframed our SaaS website under a new domain. I caught it early and implemented this fix: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2896623/how-to-prevent-m...

I think this was a common attack vector around then, but is no longer common.

AbstractH24 · 8 months ago
Seeing Google’s Picasa mentioned in an answer on that stackoverflow was a real throwback
Beijinger · 8 months ago
Stupid question:

Can you not detect and prevent this based on the HTTP referrer? Maybe reroute to goatse or something....

mr-wendel · 8 months ago
I'm sure I don't really have to point this out, but...

The last thing you would ever want to do is associate your domain name with gross, offensive content like this. The web is crawled all the time for snapshot data.

Additionally, you're more likely to cause your own (potential) users to stumble on this than anything else.

IMO, the best policy is almost always transparency. If you were to redirect users (and referrer-based redirects are a fragile thing), send them to a phishing/spam awareness page and explain that they most likely arrived from such a source.

d4mi3n · 8 months ago
Pretty sure content-securty-policy headers can prevent this type of attack these days for browsers that support them. Check out the frame-ancestors CSP directive: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Co...
sgerenser · 8 months ago
Consider rerouting to a picture of an egg in an soft-boiled egg cup with an uncanny resemblance to male anatomy.
Rauchg · 8 months ago
It’s possible `/` redirects but other hidden routes phish. If someone gets e.g.: a fake password reset email, it might help the attacker bypass sanity checks users make.
ActionHank · 8 months ago
Also helps create phishing report "false" flags.

If I target a specific region with a phishing link and redirect if the requestor is not in that region I can probably maintain my phishing domains for longer.

ag_hn · 8 months ago
Just had a look - it appears you’ve got nine .com domains registered with your brand name in the same second on GoDaddy: explore/get/join/meet/my/team/the/tryEXAMPLE.com and EXAMPLEconnect.com.

The Cloudflare redirect likely has GoDaddy underneath, based on what’s visible at myEXAMPLE.com/lander and others.

Half of the domains are set for Outlook Mail, the other for Google Mail which points to a potential email game.

It doesn’t make things safer that your brand name is a top-400 frequency word in one of the European languages. Not owning your .com and having a dozen businesses with similar names just compounds the risk.

What to do really depends on the specifics of your case, including trademark and competition factors. If you’re stuck, feel free to ping me at aghackernews [at] gmail.

lynndotpy · 8 months ago
Another possibility: Does your example.com point to something with an ideological or humanitarian goal?

There was a humanitarian charity I've donated to, and I saw people erroneously linking to the wrong URLs when spreading news of it. (Say, `foobar.org` and `boofar.com` when the charity is at `boofar.org`.)

So, I just bought the URLs and had them redirect to the correct URL, before a bad actor could snap them up.

djsamseng · 8 months ago
Check if your site has any manual actions against it. https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/9044175?sjid=11....

They might be trying to create toxic back links to their domains and if those domains 301 to your domain, I believe this can negatively impact the SEO of your domain (from what I read). If so you can try to disavow them https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/2648487?hl=en