Linux Mint is very usable these days. I switched a few months ago because I couldn't stand how bloated Windows 11 was. I haven't regretted it: it's actually refreshing how Mint just does want an OS should do and doesn't try to shove extra features down my throat.
The point I was trying to make is that they're not going to. That would take effort and learning something new. They just want a working computer, yesterday, and they're not going to waste time with "that Linux thing".
> Also, the main problem with linux on laptops are still drivers. Standby issues, broken keyboard backlighting, mousepad not working after resume, ...
This simply doesn't happen when you buy from an established vendor that sells computers with Linux out of the box. My suggestion these days is: even if you're going to use windows, buy a computer that comes with Linux; drivers (even windows drivers) are usually better. Use windows on a VM and only install it baremetal if performance is an issue.
If the old laptop runs the 'windows things' just fine under Linux and word goes around about that old pile of chips suddenly being much faster and less intrusive 'people' might just go around and install Linux or have other people do that for them. It is not Windows people want, it is the software running on the things they want.
Yes and no. I think at the base, everyone just wants their software to run. The challenge is, people don't want to have to learn anything new to do that. What are most people comfortable with? Windows. Why? It was on their school computers, probably on their parents' computers and most likely on their work computers.
I think if schools had their computer labs (if that's still a thing), running Ubuntu 24.04 and taught computer basics on Libreoffice, that is what people would want on their home computers, if they could go to Best Buy and buy a laptop with Ubuntu pre-installed.
Maybe over the next 5-10 years we see this change as some schools issue Chromebooks?
> People would rather go to Best Buy and get a new laptop than try something different.
Some people simply don't have that option. Other people may have that option, but would end up with something worse simply because their budget only allows for a hobbled machine. In the past they may have been able to resort to the second-hand market or cast off machines in order to get something much better.
Granted, most of these people are also willing to run an unsupported operating system. Perhaps a handful would be willing to jump zealously into Linux.
I occasionally use my steam deck as a desktop replacement but I'm always relieved to go back to my windows 10 desktop, for two reasons:
1) No native Onenote app. Nothing else checks all the boxes I need for a note taking app - easy enough for a non techie to use, shared notebooks, mobile apps, easy formatting (i.e. no markdown, etc)
2) A bunch of things are slightly "off". Can't customize mouse scroll wheel behavior, things like sleep/wifi occasionally don't work, other things I've forgotton.
I'm resigned to de-shittifying windows 11 when I eventually replace my new desktop.
> They bought a Windows laptop, for Windows things... People would rather go to Best Buy and get a new laptop than try something different.
If they want to go that route and they can afford it, so what? I think the recommendation was for those who want a way to keep their current device functional.
We are 100% truly in the time of "desktop linux". It has never been better. Unless you have a video game that 100% must run on Windows, or a specific application, there is really no reason to be there. If you want a desktop environment that looks and feels like Windows, I would suggest KDE. Out of the box it is pretty close, but it is one of the most customizable DE's out there and can truly be made to look and feel just like Windows.
WRT gaming its mostly just some anti cheat that is standing in the way, like Ars [1] so gently put it:
> As detailed in the r/macgaming subreddit and at r/SteamDeck, many players who successfully got Marvel Rivals working would receive a "Penalty Issued" notice, with a violation "detected" and bans issued until 2124. Should such a ban stand, players risked entirely missing the
much-prophesied Year of the Linux Desktop or Mainstream Mac Gaming, almost certain to happen at some point in that span.
For non-gaming, things are not moving fast enough. Microsoft Office and Adobe CS is still complicated to get running, if possible at all with recent versions.
For me, when I switched to Linux, I had to start thinking out of the box. Microsoft's OS and Adobe's Cloud are hostile environments that are designed to lock you into a ecosystem that isn't in your best interest. As people start figuring this out, and have had enough, like I finally did one day, more and more people are going to look to alternatives.
I dropped Adobe and Windows[0] because of this. I can do this because I am tech savvy, but as more technically inclined people do this, it creates incentives to make it easier for the rest.
Unless we get a stable ecosystem for closed source apps and drivers it is not going to happen. Android is the very example of that. A closed source software friendly OS with the backing of a tech giant. It also has to provide an almost complete translation layer. Wine is fine for simpler programs using contained APIs like games. It is far behind for any business app.
The polishing required for the masses requires people with huge talent and years of experience to work on the software. That talent doesn't want to work for scraps. So unless a tech giant decides to hedge tens of billions against Apple and Microsoft and give it away for free like Google did with Android, we are not going to get an OS that has good OOTB experience and a thriving business grade software.
I don't think so. Linux still hasn't figured out how to install programs smoothly. In fact, installing a Windows program on Linux is easier than installing a Linux native program. Anything released in AppImage format requires you to write your own config file to get a shortcut and icon? Seriously? Until they figure that out the average person is going to quickly give up on it.
While this is an issue for some smaller programs, for the vast majority of stuff installing and updating programs is just so much easier on Linux than Windows. I don't have to go searching for a download link, I just open up my distro's package manager and search for what I want. One of the major things that has helped Linux is that a lot more things are just web apps now.
What I really think is the unacceptable thing that will hold people from using Linux permanently is the abysmal power management for laptops. I cannot get my Framework 13 to reliably last more than 24 hours with the lid closed when Windows easily lasts multiple days.
Who's still distributing with AppImage? Most desktop distros these days are based on flatpak or snap, which are as one-click-easy as any other app store, and certainly don't require writing any config files. When you do need to configure the packaging, e.g. to access different directories, there's a standard GUI for that purpose (buried deep in settings, but most people won't be using it).
Which desktop environment did you select? I run Debian 12 bookworm with the Gnome desktop environment. But I suspect KDE or MATE may be more appealing to Windows converts.
KDE is leaps and bounds better than gnome. It can be customized to be minimal. Gnome is just minimal and painful for the sake of trying to mimic macOS but in a terrible manner.
What's the actual attack surface for an outdated home PC? My understanding is the threat to win PCs is 50% you clicked the wrong link (outdated browser problem, not OS) and 50% lateral move (probably not meaningful in a home environment?). Like if I plugged my Windows 7 laptop, last updated 2018 into my network, what would happen?
What I'm getting at is "instead of throwing out your old PC you can install Linux" is just a long winded way of saying "throw out your old PC" for many people. I think "here's how to keep running an old PC safely" would be more useful advice.
I'm with several opinions around. I keep a windows box with office just because of the intrincated format of a long frequently updated bunch of related docs (about 15 years now, time flies...). Used windows 8 until the hdd "expired" recently, now 10 in an inexpensive little cube. For all the rest, mint and cinamom are a perfect fit. Simple as that. I had enough of complex machinery in my (professionally active) time...
Can you give me the link I should forward to my parents? They're still on Windows 10 home and I don't think they're even aware that they'll need to either pay up or figure something else out this year.
Might as well use Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2024 at that point, supported until 2034. Been using as a daily driver since it came out last year, pretty much the same good experience as with the Windows 10 LTSC.
I don't expect third-party desktop application developers to continue supporting Windows 10 until 2034, given that the IoT Enterprise license agreement prohibits desktop use.
Which is not to say most applications won't continue to run, but it wouldn't surprise me if, say, Valve stopped supporting Steam on Windows 10 in five years or so, as they did with Windows <10 last year.
My laptop has been running Pop OS for the past 5 years and its been a delight to use for dev stuff and random gaming, really wish i could move my desktop to Linux too but i mostly use that for gaming and don’t really want to reboot my PC and switch OS when i need to play a game with anticheat.
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They bought a Windows laptop, for Windows things... People would rather go to Best Buy and get a new laptop than try something different.
Most people bought a laptop - for computer things. Most people don't care for the OS at all. They care if they can do the stuff they want to do.
For most it is just browsing and that works mostly the same.
But if it is more than browsing, then chances are, they won't be happy with libreoffice or gimp, if they are used to microsoft office and photoshop.
Also, the main problem with linux on laptops are still drivers. Standby issues, broken keyboard backlighting, mousepad not working after resume, ...
Still, anyone who can make the transition, should make the transition.
This simply doesn't happen when you buy from an established vendor that sells computers with Linux out of the box. My suggestion these days is: even if you're going to use windows, buy a computer that comes with Linux; drivers (even windows drivers) are usually better. Use windows on a VM and only install it baremetal if performance is an issue.
No they really are not.
I think if schools had their computer labs (if that's still a thing), running Ubuntu 24.04 and taught computer basics on Libreoffice, that is what people would want on their home computers, if they could go to Best Buy and buy a laptop with Ubuntu pre-installed.
Maybe over the next 5-10 years we see this change as some schools issue Chromebooks?
Some people simply don't have that option. Other people may have that option, but would end up with something worse simply because their budget only allows for a hobbled machine. In the past they may have been able to resort to the second-hand market or cast off machines in order to get something much better.
Granted, most of these people are also willing to run an unsupported operating system. Perhaps a handful would be willing to jump zealously into Linux.
1) No native Onenote app. Nothing else checks all the boxes I need for a note taking app - easy enough for a non techie to use, shared notebooks, mobile apps, easy formatting (i.e. no markdown, etc)
2) A bunch of things are slightly "off". Can't customize mouse scroll wheel behavior, things like sleep/wifi occasionally don't work, other things I've forgotton.
I'm resigned to de-shittifying windows 11 when I eventually replace my new desktop.
If they want to go that route and they can afford it, so what? I think the recommendation was for those who want a way to keep their current device functional.
> As detailed in the r/macgaming subreddit and at r/SteamDeck, many players who successfully got Marvel Rivals working would receive a "Penalty Issued" notice, with a violation "detected" and bans issued until 2124. Should such a ban stand, players risked entirely missing the much-prophesied Year of the Linux Desktop or Mainstream Mac Gaming, almost certain to happen at some point in that span.
For non-gaming, things are not moving fast enough. Microsoft Office and Adobe CS is still complicated to get running, if possible at all with recent versions.
1: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2025/01/marvel-rivals-lifts-1...
I dropped Adobe and Windows[0] because of this. I can do this because I am tech savvy, but as more technically inclined people do this, it creates incentives to make it easier for the rest.
[0]: https://www.scottrlarson.com/publications/publication-transi...
The polishing required for the masses requires people with huge talent and years of experience to work on the software. That talent doesn't want to work for scraps. So unless a tech giant decides to hedge tens of billions against Apple and Microsoft and give it away for free like Google did with Android, we are not going to get an OS that has good OOTB experience and a thriving business grade software.
What I really think is the unacceptable thing that will hold people from using Linux permanently is the abysmal power management for laptops. I cannot get my Framework 13 to reliably last more than 24 hours with the lid closed when Windows easily lasts multiple days.
As for other stuff, the flatpak store is quite good and integrates well with KDE.
On my deb 12 machine running kde, I can do system updates and app installs from a single area. (KDE Discover app)
What I'm getting at is "instead of throwing out your old PC you can install Linux" is just a long winded way of saying "throw out your old PC" for many people. I think "here's how to keep running an old PC safely" would be more useful advice.
Chrome for example is unsupported on Windows 7 past version 109 (Jan 2023).
i have never seen "trivial to obtain" and "LTSC" in the same sentance before.
please, do elaborate
Which is not to say most applications won't continue to run, but it wouldn't surprise me if, say, Valve stopped supporting Steam on Windows 10 in five years or so, as they did with Windows <10 last year.