Privacy laws actually work! Let’s pass more of them.
> Information gathered about you after the effective date of our updated Privacy Statement, November 27, 2024, will be shared with participating stores where you shop, *unless you live in California, North Dakota, or Vermont.* For PayPal customers in California, North Dakota, or Vermont, we’ll only share your information with those merchants if you tell us to do so
In 1999 the show writers of the West Wing accurately predicated this in an episode about the selection of a Supreme Court Judge:
"It's not just about abortion, it's about the next 20 years. In the '20s and '30s it was the role of government. '50s and '60s it was civil rights. The next two decades are going to be privacy. I'm talking about the Internet. I'm talking about cell phones. I'm talking about health records and who's gay and who's not. And moreover, in a country born on the will to be free, what could be more fundamental than this?"
- Sam Seaborn (Rob Lowe) West Wing (ep: The Short List) 1999
- We've seen massive breaches of EMR systems
- We've seen massive breeahes from dating apps (Grindr) outing Gay individuals
- None of these entities faced significant consequences for their actions and continue to operate with large amounts of profit.
- 2 years after this episode the Patriot Act was passed. We've failed on privacy so far.
There are so many beautiful quote I love from the West Wing... but this one stands out for me because of how (a decade off but) shockingly accurate it is.
This is so open faced and gross. It reminds of someone talking about getting paid minimum wage. If you get paid minimum wage, what your employer is saying is, "I would pay you less if I was legally allowed to do so."
It also reminds me of State Farm's (auto/home insurance in the US) website with this link at the bottom:
> Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information (CA residents only)
I would like a tax relating to privacy violations to be retroactive in all these other states. It’s actually legal to apply a retroactive tax, so why not?
you know what works better? delete your paypal account and dont use them as a service. I did this years ago and in fact have never missed not having one of these accounts. and since I'm not using paypal they're not sharing info on my to stores when i shop, whether my local laws allow it or not.
They refuse to delete the account I never intentionally created (their scammy credit card checkout tactics when I had no other option) unless I provide them a bunch of data I've never previously given them in order to 'verify' my identity.
They also raise the bar of entry for companies, reducing competition. I don't use PayPal and won't use Venmo in stores because of this, however I certainly wouldn't be putting trust in more legislation solving this.
I've gotten the sense that PayPal is circling the drain lately. Whenever I log on (which is rare) I'm bombarded by modals and banners offering payment plans, digital coupons, etc. When I receive money, there's lots of clever UI design that's trying to trick me into transferring it instantly (for a fee) or keeping it in PayPal, as opposed to withdrawing it to my bank account. I suppose this is just one more sign the company is in financial trouble.
I'll add one more to your list: since many things are paid in USD, and most of us live outside the US, your payment goes through a currency conversion. Up until a few years ago it was possible to configure PayPal to let your bank convert using bank's own rates, although it was hidden behind dark UI patterns. Then they removed it and now force you to run conversion at PayPal rates, which are just terrible, much worse than any bank I've ever used. This was about the time I stopped using PayPal completely, so I can't say exactly how much of a price hike this caused, but it's probably around 10%.
I have thought PayPal was circling the drain for so long that, honestly, it probably says more about me than PayPal. Still though, I don’t get it, as far as I can tell they are just… essentially doing the same thing as credit card companies, but with less regulatory protection for their customers.(?)
Like they made sense 20 years ago when banks didn’t know about the internet. But now they are befuddling.
Despite my bottomless hate for PayPal, I’ve been keeping my account active because there was always some worse option to give your credit card number to.
But with Privacy.com, I’m finally ready to let go.
Every time I bring this up, someone says "oh, they'll ruin your credit rating!"
No, actually they don't, unless you do something fraudulent. If you cancel your subscription legitimately and then kill the credit card, you've just made sure there aren't any "accidental" charges.
Same here, I absolutely despise PayPal but end up using them often because I simply don't trust most retailers with my card information :(
(and it's often faster checkout if I don't have my CC details handy)
That being said, there's quite a bit of competition these days from BNPL vendors (klarna, afterpay etc.). I don't believe they are any more virtuous though...
Automatic data sharing policy to take effect on November 27, 2024. If you do not want PP to share your data with “participating stores”, you need to “opt out”.
Per e-mail sent regarding this policy update: “You can opt out of this at any time in your profile settings under "Data and Privacy."
Just logging in now, for the first time in years, I found two options that seem relevant.
For the first one: it presented that I had given permission to "paypal shopping" to share my identity. I removed that permission. This may be the automatically added permission that I had to opt out of. This was in a list of discrete permissions, or apparently so, since there was only one entry, but it could be removed by clicking on a trashcan icon.
For the second one, it was explicitly described with words like "share your info". This was a checkbox-slider, and it was already set to "off".
Also, maybe it defaults to off if you reside in USA and live in one of these states:
> Information gathered about you after the effective date of our updated Privacy Statement, November 27, 2024, will be shared with participating stores where you shop, unless you live in California, North Dakota, or Vermont
I didn’t revoke the “PayPal shopping” permission. But now I will.
Wonder if PP system automatically moves that slider to off if you revoke the “PayPal Shopping” permission. I honestly don’t remember granting that explicitly. Then again, I have only used PP for rare occasions
One thing I realized. This appears to be a change in their privacy policy for _US_ PayPal. If you are not in USA (ie, Canada), then it likely won’t be there as it’s not rolling out to you.
For me: I opened the app, navigated to Profile > “Data and privacy” > “Personalized shopping” (under “Manage shared info” header) > toggle off “Let us share products, offers, and rewards you might like with participating stores”
> No matter where you live, you’ll always be able to exercise your right to opt out of this data sharing by updating your preference settings in your account under “Data and Privacy.”
There is currently no opt out button or switch on this page on their website when signed in through either my personal or business account.
No idea how they got this screen, as when I click back it gives me the same menu I saw before where this option doesn’t exist and the website design is different.
I managed to get there through the main privacy settings screen, but I'm a California resident, so PayPal is legally required to give me that option. Perhaps you live somewhere else? But maybe PayPal hasn't removed access to the setting, just the link to it?
I have tried to delete my PayPal account on ten different occasions (I mean, something like that), and never succeed to do so. A maze of dark patterns and crappy UI and buttons that go nowhere. I even sent a couple of emails one of the times, and then gave up when there was no response. They're a heinous company.
I battled this. Turns out the key was to get the CFPB involved. Within a few weeks I received a letter of explanation from their legal department and my account was deleted.
Companies hate getting a letter from regulatory agencies because it frequently has to be dealt with in part by legal, which is an expensive department to clog.
Edit: I see you are in Europe. So the above doesn’t directly apply, although there may be a regulatory agency that is equivalent that you can gripe to.
I'm in Europe! I haven't tried in ages, a few years I suppose. I'm going to try again, bolstered by your comment. Thank you, kind netizen. Maybe they've been obliged to stop messing around as much with some of the new laws of the past years.
I see you're in Europe; don't you have a regulatory body you can contact to help you deal with this? I assume account deletion is a requirement covered by the GDPR.
Threatening that (or just using keywords like GDPR) works great for most companies when you can't find it on the website or mailing list has no unsubscribe link or whatever, but you're forgetting quite how much of a scummy company PayPal is.
This must be related to their new product - Fastlane.
Fastlane is an express checkout product, similar to ShopPay. Even if you have never used a website, you authenticate with OTP and all your information (Address & Payment Methods) is available.
Originally, merchants could not use this data to make customer accounts. This was not ideal for us merchants as there was no method to login to track your order information.
PayPal came to me this week saying they were updating their legal agreement to allow merchants to create customer accounts.
(Express checkout options will soon be everywhere - Stripe, Shopify, PayPal, Zelle/Paze are all competing in this space now)
> This was not ideal for us merchants as there was no method to login to track your order information.
You don't need accounts for that. Allow customers to check their order status using the order number and some other identifying bit that you are allowed to get/keep, such as last name or billing zip code. Merchants have been doing this since the very start of e-commerce. (If you can't keep anything, then just make the order numbers long random strings, and use that alone, and/or generate a random, unique URL to send in the order confirmation email.)
If a merchant creates an account for me without my consent, I delete that account and never buy from them again.
Stop abusing your customers' personal information. I'm glad I live in California, and have already opted out to PayPal sharing my information for this, as is my legal right.
PayPal has always been a disaster. There have been so many stories of people having their accounts frozen for long periods of time while whatever passes for "customer service" at PayPal jerked them around or outright ignored them that I stopped using PayPal a very long time ago and I've never once regretted it.
I see that paypalsucks.com is gone now. Not sure when that happened (archive.org is down too), but really, people have had more than enough warning about what a shit company PayPal is, so anyone continuing to get screwed over by them now is pretty much asking for it.
Readit News
> Information gathered about you after the effective date of our updated Privacy Statement, November 27, 2024, will be shared with participating stores where you shop, *unless you live in California, North Dakota, or Vermont.* For PayPal customers in California, North Dakota, or Vermont, we’ll only share your information with those merchants if you tell us to do so
"It's not just about abortion, it's about the next 20 years. In the '20s and '30s it was the role of government. '50s and '60s it was civil rights. The next two decades are going to be privacy. I'm talking about the Internet. I'm talking about cell phones. I'm talking about health records and who's gay and who's not. And moreover, in a country born on the will to be free, what could be more fundamental than this?"
- Sam Seaborn (Rob Lowe) West Wing (ep: The Short List) 1999
- We've seen massive breaches of EMR systems
- We've seen massive breeahes from dating apps (Grindr) outing Gay individuals
- None of these entities faced significant consequences for their actions and continue to operate with large amounts of profit.
- 2 years after this episode the Patriot Act was passed. We've failed on privacy so far.
Regulatory capture is still the highest ROI investment, and we should work on that.
It also reminds me of State Farm's (auto/home insurance in the US) website with this link at the bottom:
> Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information (CA residents only)
Doesn't this apply to all pay rates? It's not like high-paying jobs are high-paying for the love in the employer's heart.
When does a wage stop being gross? 1c over minimum wage? $1 over?
[0] https://electricdusk.com/img/disqus-gdpr-violation-marketing...
The minimum wage is the government saying "if you produce less value than this arbitrary cut off, you aren't allowed to work".
I'll add one more to your list: since many things are paid in USD, and most of us live outside the US, your payment goes through a currency conversion. Up until a few years ago it was possible to configure PayPal to let your bank convert using bank's own rates, although it was hidden behind dark UI patterns. Then they removed it and now force you to run conversion at PayPal rates, which are just terrible, much worse than any bank I've ever used. This was about the time I stopped using PayPal completely, so I can't say exactly how much of a price hike this caused, but it's probably around 10%.
Like they made sense 20 years ago when banks didn’t know about the internet. But now they are befuddling.
When was this? As of a few months ago it was working fine for me, although it required a bit of finagling to get it to work on new cards I added.
One in which they are thriving.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/382619/paypal-annual-rev...
PayPal ($29B) also does more revenue than Mastercard ($25B).
But with Privacy.com, I’m finally ready to let go.
No, actually they don't, unless you do something fraudulent. If you cancel your subscription legitimately and then kill the credit card, you've just made sure there aren't any "accidental" charges.
(and it's often faster checkout if I don't have my CC details handy)
That being said, there's quite a bit of competition these days from BNPL vendors (klarna, afterpay etc.). I don't believe they are any more virtuous though...
Per e-mail sent regarding this policy update: “You can opt out of this at any time in your profile settings under "Data and Privacy."
For the first one: it presented that I had given permission to "paypal shopping" to share my identity. I removed that permission. This may be the automatically added permission that I had to opt out of. This was in a list of discrete permissions, or apparently so, since there was only one entry, but it could be removed by clicking on a trashcan icon.
For the second one, it was explicitly described with words like "share your info". This was a checkbox-slider, and it was already set to "off".
> Information gathered about you after the effective date of our updated Privacy Statement, November 27, 2024, will be shared with participating stores where you shop, unless you live in California, North Dakota, or Vermont
Wonder if PP system automatically moves that slider to off if you revoke the “PayPal Shopping” permission. I honestly don’t remember granting that explicitly. Then again, I have only used PP for rare occasions
For me: I opened the app, navigated to Profile > “Data and privacy” > “Personalized shopping” (under “Manage shared info” header) > toggle off “Let us share products, offers, and rewards you might like with participating stores”
Haven’t checked on paypal.com
There is currently no opt out button or switch on this page on their website when signed in through either my personal or business account.
Edit: Someone further down direct linked to it here https://www.paypal.com/myaccount/privacy/settings/recommenda...
No idea how they got this screen, as when I click back it gives me the same menu I saw before where this option doesn’t exist and the website design is different.
Companies hate getting a letter from regulatory agencies because it frequently has to be dealt with in part by legal, which is an expensive department to clog.
Edit: I see you are in Europe. So the above doesn’t directly apply, although there may be a regulatory agency that is equivalent that you can gripe to.
(EU here.)
(EU here.)
Threatening that (or just using keywords like GDPR) works great for most companies when you can't find it on the website or mailing list has no unsubscribe link or whatever, but you're forgetting quite how much of a scummy company PayPal is.
This must be related to their new product - Fastlane.
Fastlane is an express checkout product, similar to ShopPay. Even if you have never used a website, you authenticate with OTP and all your information (Address & Payment Methods) is available.
Originally, merchants could not use this data to make customer accounts. This was not ideal for us merchants as there was no method to login to track your order information.
PayPal came to me this week saying they were updating their legal agreement to allow merchants to create customer accounts.
(Express checkout options will soon be everywhere - Stripe, Shopify, PayPal, Zelle/Paze are all competing in this space now)
You don't need accounts for that. Allow customers to check their order status using the order number and some other identifying bit that you are allowed to get/keep, such as last name or billing zip code. Merchants have been doing this since the very start of e-commerce. (If you can't keep anything, then just make the order numbers long random strings, and use that alone, and/or generate a random, unique URL to send in the order confirmation email.)
If a merchant creates an account for me without my consent, I delete that account and never buy from them again.
Stop abusing your customers' personal information. I'm glad I live in California, and have already opted out to PayPal sharing my information for this, as is my legal right.
I don't need to go to your website to read the same information as usps.com but in a different header.
The only information paypal is sharing is name and shipping address. We’re aren’t talking significant data here.
These new wallets are all to compete with Apple and Google Pay.
edit: updated title to add (USA)
I see that paypalsucks.com is gone now. Not sure when that happened (archive.org is down too), but really, people have had more than enough warning about what a shit company PayPal is, so anyone continuing to get screwed over by them now is pretty much asking for it.