MiniLED backlit LCD display tech can come pretty close to OLED and it’s only going to get cheaper. I’m a longtime OLED enthusiast but the M1 series displays were what convinced me there’s a long future for LCD TVs and monitors.
> The cost of microLEDs remains high and the technology has struggled to compete with organic LEDs (OLEDs), he said, which keep improving while getting cheaper and lasting longer. It’s possible that Apple went the wrong route when it came to developing the technology. “Maybe their design was over engineered,” Virey said. “Maybe it was expensive by design.”
Yeah the names are confusing here. I actually had to edit my post after I realized I used “MicroLED” when I meant “MiniLED” so I’m not sure if you saw that one. If so, sorry!
For those who are mercifully unfamiliar: MiniLED is different than MicroLED. MiniLED means a backlight panel with more addressable “zones” due to use of smaller and more densely packed LEDs. It’s arguably more of a marketing term for high-resolution LED backlighting, but the impact of this incremental improvement shouldn’t be overlooked - it’s very effective for most applications.
MicroLED on the other hand is like OLED in that each pixel is a single addressable unit that emits its own light, but differs in that it’s essentially using an actual grid of semiconductor-style LEDs, where OLED manufacturing uses something totally different IIRC.
Also interesting is a video that RTNGS made a little while back that I cannot currently find where they took some of the TVs from this test with failing screens that looked SUPER bad in the pictures, and showed them in the video with moving pictures, asking the question "So, hey, can you spot the problem?". For some the answer was an obvious "YES", but for others, no, not at all.
Yeah just like OLED, the LED backlight on a LCD doesn't last. I just recently swapped out the backlight on my ~10 year old TV with a $30 new one off aliexpress. Way brighter again, and way less color accurate. At least it doesn't need to be ewaste now.
OLED do burn in but it take a LOT of time. Here is the OLED Switch that has 18,000 hours of static screen time. Yes, it has burned in but on the most extreme situation possible.
I don’t understand what you mean. Both of our LCD TVs have failed or degenerated and I was looking to OLED for something that would last longer.
>Furthermore, LCD screens have a finite lifespan, typically around 30,000 to 60,000 hours, after which the quality of the display can start to degrade. In contrast, OLED screens can potentially last up to 100,000 hours
Maybe I don't use tvs the way most people do. But the most pessimistic lifetime estimates for my use case on a 30,000 hour panel is 41 years. I don't really see a television as something to pass on to my heirs so that seems like a solved problem for non-commercial use.
I've had televisions fail but it has always been a connector or capacitor that I could replace with a sautering iron and about 46 minutes of disassembly/re-assembly
Maybe planned obsolescence has something to do with it. But mostly, OLEDs look so much better than LCDs. I can’t believe we put up with light grey “black” pixels for so long.
We've put up with gray for black since 1950s when the first CRTs were sold. Not sure why you stopped in history for LCD. LCD was an improvement just like LED/OLED was the next improvement over LCD.
LCDs are still widely available and dirt cheap thanks to cutthroat competition, but the only reason why you'd buy one these days is if you can't afford OLED. (That includes everyone that's worried about burn-in)
My daughter loves to put a beautiful image on her iPad and make it stay like a picture frame for hours. She’s a kid, she doesn't care if pixels burn out, and if I try to prohibit it, it will just happen more often.
Or if you know, you want to maintain any level of brightness over a greater than a 10% window. I have OLED's and MiniLED on my desk. Each excels in a different area. The OLED can't even get close to the MiniLED's HDR performance, whilst the MiniLED gets close enough to the OLEDs strength for 95% of content. Save for motion, OLED reams LCD in motion. I just wish I could have everything in the one panel but alas we are just not there.
I'm hoping we see major bumps to OLED on the desktops brightness over the next few generations of panel as it's still early days to be fair.
For now, it's likely ill keep both on my desk. OLED for darker tighters only supplying the occasional highlight, MiniLED for everything else including titles calling for large and sustained brightness values.
I have a theory that native 720p/768p panels are going to go up in value on the second hand market once they're no longer available. xbox 360/ps3 era games don't look quite right scaled up to higher resolutions (and a lot of stuff from the generation afterwards too). The retro gamers with cash burning a hole in their pocket are going to get to that generation soon and won't have nostalgia for old CRTs anymore.
I bet you could do pretty convincing 3x scaling on a 4k oled and simulate the individual R, G, and B pixels with the right hardware though.
There's a qualitative difference between an integer upscale and actual LCD pixels at native res, especially at low resolutions. The glow and shape of the individual pixels makes edges a little softer without looking blurry, and anything taking advantage of subpixel rendering doesn't look quite right when upscaled.
A couple months back I suddenly got nostalgic for MGS4 and was shocked to find out there's no way to play it other than to power up your PS3 again. Ditto for FF13 (but who cares about that game)
I suppose the PS3 is also the last console with a very bespoke architecture making it hard to port etc
The bigger the size, the greater the chances of unacceptable defects. Which drives the price of non-defective units up commensurately (just like regular wafer size). And makes replacements equally onerous and expensive.
I bought a 42 inch TV for just under $300 AUD a few weeks back. I would suspect the panel isn't even the most expensive part any more on a TV, logistics for that thing have to be one of the biggest parts nowadays.
Readit News
MiniLED backlit LCD display tech can come pretty close to OLED and it’s only going to get cheaper. I’m a longtime OLED enthusiast but the M1 series displays were what convinced me there’s a long future for LCD TVs and monitors.
> The cost of microLEDs remains high and the technology has struggled to compete with organic LEDs (OLEDs), he said, which keep improving while getting cheaper and lasting longer. It’s possible that Apple went the wrong route when it came to developing the technology. “Maybe their design was over engineered,” Virey said. “Maybe it was expensive by design.”
For those who are mercifully unfamiliar: MiniLED is different than MicroLED. MiniLED means a backlight panel with more addressable “zones” due to use of smaller and more densely packed LEDs. It’s arguably more of a marketing term for high-resolution LED backlighting, but the impact of this incremental improvement shouldn’t be overlooked - it’s very effective for most applications.
MicroLED on the other hand is like OLED in that each pixel is a single addressable unit that emits its own light, but differs in that it’s essentially using an actual grid of semiconductor-style LEDs, where OLED manufacturing uses something totally different IIRC.
However, it's definitely correct to say that quality OLED screens wear out much, much faster than quality backlit LCD screens.
And as always, garbage-grade screens [0] fall to pieces much, much faster than good ones.
You might also be interested in this follow-up report that was published about a year later than the link you posted: <https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/longevity-burn-in-test-updat...>.
Also interesting is a video that RTNGS made a little while back that I cannot currently find where they took some of the TVs from this test with failing screens that looked SUPER bad in the pictures, and showed them in the video with moving pictures, asking the question "So, hey, can you spot the problem?". For some the answer was an obvious "YES", but for others, no, not at all.
[0] Like dreadfully thin edge-lit ones: <https://www.rtings.com/research/thin-lcd-tvs-break-faster-un...>
The difference in brightness and colour reproduction in a pair of 2003 PowerBooks, one used heavily and the other just stored…
It’s quite stark. Dim backlights and washed out colours.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po8jAQjvd88
>Furthermore, LCD screens have a finite lifespan, typically around 30,000 to 60,000 hours, after which the quality of the display can start to degrade. In contrast, OLED screens can potentially last up to 100,000 hours
I've had televisions fail but it has always been a connector or capacitor that I could replace with a sautering iron and about 46 minutes of disassembly/re-assembly
17 years ago was 2007 - I can’t remember every TV our family had since 2007, but it was more than one or two, for sure.
My daughter loves to put a beautiful image on her iPad and make it stay like a picture frame for hours. She’s a kid, she doesn't care if pixels burn out, and if I try to prohibit it, it will just happen more often.
For me, OLED is better, sure.
I'm hoping we see major bumps to OLED on the desktops brightness over the next few generations of panel as it's still early days to be fair.
For now, it's likely ill keep both on my desk. OLED for darker tighters only supplying the occasional highlight, MiniLED for everything else including titles calling for large and sustained brightness values.
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/best/bright-room
Anyway, if you have a big window in the room where your TV is, brightness probably should be the deciding factor.
Announcing the death of LCDs seems slightly immature.
Deleted Comment
I bet you could do pretty convincing 3x scaling on a 4k oled and simulate the individual R, G, and B pixels with the right hardware though.
It's not the CRT era upsampling this time around.
I suppose the PS3 is also the last console with a very bespoke architecture making it hard to port etc
Cant it also be a display? Nothing fancy, just rows of flashing leds to illustrate activity would be enough.
Deleted Comment