This is a stupid non-issue. You can go ahead and call it JavaScript despite what Oracle does or doesn't say.
Better yet, though: don't call it JavaScript—call it JS. "JavaScript" is and always was a dumb name. "JS" is not only fine, but better—and not because "JS" is particularly good, but because "JavaScript" itself isn't exactly hard to beat.
The only thing left to do is for the spec authors (which includes signatories to this petition) and the rest of TC-39 to say so; the next edition of ECMA-262 should modify the existing disclaimer in the preface about "JavaScript" being an Oracle trademark to state unequivocally that "JavaScript"—an unfortunate vestige of an ill-considered marketing decision in the 1900s—is a deprecated way to refer to the language not otherwise terribly well-known as ECMAScript and that the recommended way to refer to it is simply as "JS".
"JavaSciript" implies it's some scripting language related to Java, which was originally an idea, where it was meant to control Java Applets. But that is not a thing anymore. Thus the name makes no sense. "JS" is just a name only conflicting with my initials.
It works well as a modifier, and makes it easy to search for projects that are named after other common concepts or objects. It's also easy and natural- sounding to say for English speakers. Compared to other modifiers, it's more like "-dot-com" than "-lang", or even worse "libre-".
It’s smaller. The logo already just says JS. It doesn’t boost Java’s reputation. And people in the ecosystem don’t have to worry about oracle threatening them.
What would be really cool is if the community could just rally around the original name, LiveScript… it never had anything to do with Java, let that go…
this is an interesting angle. maybe the js luminaries signing this open letter can get support from the government in jakarta. i didn't realize this, but a hundred and fifty-six million people live in literal java
i don't think oracle does anything in order to earn goodwill or because it's the right thing. they're structurally immune to moral suasion. don't forget that oracle was the company that sued google for the independent reimplementation of java they used in android. if you want oracle to do something, you either need to offer them a lot of money or level an extremely credible, well-financed legal threat at them
as agumonkey implicitly points out in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41559110, though, 'java' is the name of the world's most popular island. i wonder if the indonesian government could be persuaded to support the trademark revocation
I didn't know that was decided, and was just catching up on it now. This was a fun read:
> Mr Walker and other high-level executives from Iceland (the supermarket), took an emergency delegation to Iceland (the country), where they were met with a cold shoulder.
Geez, not this shit again. (One of the many ways you could tell Oracle was doomed in trying to find and convincingly argue a tenable position against Google: half the people half the time argued that Google should be sued for implementing Java, and the other half the time argued that they should be sued for not implementing Java.)
“It can't be bargained with, it can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity! Or remorse or fear and it absolutely will not stop!... ever... until you are dead!”
They're clinging to it because of the "java" part, not the "script" part.
And they'll hold on to that tightly.
The most manifest example of this is simply what they made the Eclipse org jump through when they dropped, now, "Jakarta" EE. That was not a small rock in the Java pond at the time when we had to go through the Great Renaming.
But they did it anyway because the packages used to be named "javax", and Oracle was not going to let that go.
> Do not fall into the trap of anthropomorphising Larry Ellison. You need to think of Larry Ellison the way you think of a lawnmower. You don't anthropomorphize your lawnmower, the lawnmower just mows the lawn, you stick your hand in there and it'll chop it off, the end. You don't think 'oh, the lawnmower hates me' -- lawnmower doesn't give a shit about you, lawnmower can't hate you. Don't anthropomorphize the lawnmower. Don't fall into that trap about Oracle. — Brian Cantrill (https://youtu.be/-zRN7XLCRhc?t=33m1s)
Edit: as I watched the video again I finally caught on the fact that RollerBlades are a brand of inline-skates. In Belgium we called them inline-skates.
It's interesting to see how brands-as-identifiers change based on language and countries. My Walloon friend calls tape Scotch, but I don't.
Unfortunately yes, they'll send you a C&D if you pop up on an Oracle lawyer's radar. A coworker of mine had a course named "Rust for JavaScript developers" and received a C&D from Oracle.
I just noticed that that video has a copyright notice at the end for Velcro BVBA (which I think is Belgian). Apparently it's a swiss invention. I had always assumed velcro was an American company, because in my language we don't say velcro either.
Tangent, but in Poland these are called "Iceskaterollers" (łyżworolki). Now I wonder how my mother tongue compares to, say, English in terms of gzip compression efficiency.
The general public can't infringe a trademark unless they're selling a competing product ;) Interestingly, Aspirin becoming a generic term in many countries was more of a result of WW1 as the allied powers seized various things from German companies (like Bayer) for war reparations, including intellectual property like trademarks. It was technically purchased by an American company for use in the US after the war, but I guess they didn't defend the mark very well and it quickly fell into genericism.
I'm not sure - trademark law is tricky - "The Container Store" is trademarked (and while you might say "App Store" is too generic, but I don't recall the term existing prior to "The App Store", so this might be a "Hoover" or similar situation).
I remember McDonald's used[?] to have "All Beef" as a trademark for their burger patties (I also recall them getting in trouble in NZ as just because they're "All Beef" brand doesn't mean you can advertise them as "All Beef Patties" in a way that is clearly intended to imply they're "all beef")
The letter makes points that the trademark is already abandoned. I'm not familiar with trademark laws, but if the trademark is already abandoned, why the need for the letter?
Oracle's lawyers dutifully renew the trademark annually. Despite their lack of active use, this leaves the door open for future use. It creates a nebulous state where Oracle could choose to initiate a costly legal action against someone using the trademark.
One of those situations where the law can be on your side but the real problem is if you can afford the legal battle.
As the letter notes, Oracle has never actually taken any kind of action to keep people from using the name. They don't even make performative reminders. They know their claim on the mark is weak and they aren't going to waste a lot of lawyer time on it. But it's Oracle, so they won't willingly give up anything that might be worth more than a dime. This is just to note their continued non-action when the USPTO is asked to nullify the mark.
JavaScript is a registered trademark. It would be easier for everyone if Oracle released the trademark registration than for the letter signers to file a legal petition requesting the USPTO cancel the registration.
The site explicitly says they tried to get Oracle to release the trademark before, and that this is their final attempt at doing so before filing wigh the USPTO.
In general, unenforced Trademarks are worthless, but prevent other people trademarking the name. Trademarks are regional, and must be registered in each country even if a part of WIPO.
Some countries, the trademarks are market sector specific, but in other places cover all use cases for the name/mark.
It is highly recommended to trademark commercial products/names in each country of import. Otherwise your company could end up getting sued/imports-seized by an opportunistic a*hole that does nothing except sneak copyright/trademark rights.
Oracle is smart, and will sit on the IP like any business person should.
Most people that complain about trademarks/copyright have never been ripped off for a few hundred thousand by import/customs rules, or had counterfeit products show up for warranty repairs/returns.
IP is messy for sure, but it is better to negotiate from a position of legal power asymmetry when dealing with unreasonable individuals. Some people are crazy... had a few cons harassing one of the engineers a long time back, and needed legal to politely "ask" them to find another hobby. =3
It is practically abandoned, but unless the USPTO or a US court says that that is so, it is not legally abandoned. That is a problem because the confusion and insecurity about the trademark remains until it is legally considered abandoned.
That's why we need to file a petition with the US Patent and Trademark office.
Readit News
Better yet, though: don't call it JavaScript—call it JS. "JavaScript" is and always was a dumb name. "JS" is not only fine, but better—and not because "JS" is particularly good, but because "JavaScript" itself isn't exactly hard to beat.
The only thing left to do is for the spec authors (which includes signatories to this petition) and the rest of TC-39 to say so; the next edition of ECMA-262 should modify the existing disclaimer in the preface about "JavaScript" being an Oracle trademark to state unequivocally that "JavaScript"—an unfortunate vestige of an ill-considered marketing decision in the 1900s—is a deprecated way to refer to the language not otherwise terribly well-known as ECMAScript and that the recommended way to refer to it is simply as "JS".
There is nothing worse about "JS" over "JavaScript".
(Whereas the reverse is not true—there is something worse about "JavaScript" over "JS". Several somethings.)
What would be really cool is if the community could just rally around the original name, LiveScript… it never had anything to do with Java, let that go…
as agumonkey implicitly points out in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41559110, though, 'java' is the name of the world's most popular island. i wonder if the indonesian government could be persuaded to support the trademark revocation
— Brian Cantrill on Larry Ellison, USENIX 2011
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EUIPO "[Iceland Supermarket] cannot reasonably trademark the name of a country that has been around since the 9th century".
> Mr Walker and other high-level executives from Iceland (the supermarket), took an emergency delegation to Iceland (the country), where they were met with a cold shoulder.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-13/iceland-country-secur...
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And they'll hold on to that tightly.
The most manifest example of this is simply what they made the Eclipse org jump through when they dropped, now, "Jakarta" EE. That was not a small rock in the Java pond at the time when we had to go through the Great Renaming.
But they did it anyway because the packages used to be named "javax", and Oracle was not going to let that go.
Haha. It still hasn't ended actually.
Slowly all the old software that supported only java ee are now (nearing) EOL.
Only recently I've seen teams planning and preparing for the "move".
For those unfamiliar. Worth a watch.
He abstains from alcohol and drugs, maybe?
Deleted Comment
VELCRO(r) has this song about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRi8LptvFZY
Edit: as I watched the video again I finally caught on the fact that RollerBlades are a brand of inline-skates. In Belgium we called them inline-skates.
It's interesting to see how brands-as-identifiers change based on language and countries. My Walloon friend calls tape Scotch, but I don't.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generic_and_generici...
“Aspirin”, “elevators”, “laundromat” are just a few examples.
Even “App Store” was trademarked (by Apple).
I remember McDonald's used[?] to have "All Beef" as a trademark for their burger patties (I also recall them getting in trouble in NZ as just because they're "All Beef" brand doesn't mean you can advertise them as "All Beef Patties" in a way that is clearly intended to imply they're "all beef")
One of those situations where the law can be on your side but the real problem is if you can afford the legal battle.
Some countries, the trademarks are market sector specific, but in other places cover all use cases for the name/mark.
It is highly recommended to trademark commercial products/names in each country of import. Otherwise your company could end up getting sued/imports-seized by an opportunistic a*hole that does nothing except sneak copyright/trademark rights.
Oracle is smart, and will sit on the IP like any business person should.
Most people that complain about trademarks/copyright have never been ripped off for a few hundred thousand by import/customs rules, or had counterfeit products show up for warranty repairs/returns.
IP is messy for sure, but it is better to negotiate from a position of legal power asymmetry when dealing with unreasonable individuals. Some people are crazy... had a few cons harassing one of the engineers a long time back, and needed legal to politely "ask" them to find another hobby. =3
That's why we need to file a petition with the US Patent and Trademark office.
There's a link to the non-Oracle page for node.js download, and to Oracle Javascript Extension Toolkit. Weak, but arguable.
[1] https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn75026640&docI...