> Norwegians pay higher taxes on cars they purchase that pollute, and lower ones on low and zero-emission cars. The country also taxes bigger cars more than smaller ones. EV drivers often pay lower parking fees and can use bus lanes, too.
The first two sentences make sense! Not the last one though. After driving an EV for a few thousand miles, ive realized they are so superior to ICE for my use case. I hate driving ICE vehicles in the occasions I still do now.
In Oslo, the bus lanes on the highways are only accidentally available to EVs currently.
They were open for years as a means to foster EV adoption. But once sales took off, the local government tightened the screws — you needed an EV and also at least two people in the car to get access to the bus lane.
But! When they printed the new signs, somehow a double negative slipped through, and the text on the (many) signs said that you could only use the bus lane if you were driving alone in an EV. Obviously not the intent.
But currently, all the signs have the double negative condition crossed out, and all EVs continue to be able to use the bus lanes.
Ha, that’s funny! That’s similar where I am in the US too, early on there were EV exemptions to some carpool lanes, but that’s phasing out as EVs are normalized.
>After driving an EV for a few thousand miles, ive realized they are so superior to ICE for my use case
I vastly prefer my low-ish end EV (Hyundai Kona) to every ICE vehicle I've ever driven. Even if I wasn't saving ~$100/month in fuel costs, and even if I the environmental effects were a complete wash, I don't think I'd ever buy an ICE again.
I think the only reason I'd ever go to an ICE vehicle is if I needed something larger. Right now, if you need a "family transport" vehicle with space for adults, kids, luggage, etc, the EV world is pretty limited. I had high hopes for the VW Buzz, but it's total range is a bit borderline for me, although I still need to calculate out how it would compare for my typical long distance drive. The Kona has greater range, but a much slower max charge rate, and it might turn out that those balance each other out, and the Kona has been fine for the 10 hour road trips I've done so far.
Max charge rate is such a poor metric, as actual charge rate as a function of SOC varies so much between cars.
I'd like to see some standardized figure which is max average charge rate over 15 min, or perhaps minimum charge time for 30 kWh (~150 km range) or something along those lines.
My car has 120 kW peak IIRC, but I've never reached it. Once it's past 20% it has dropped to like 70 kW or something like that. And since I try my best to keep it above 20%, that 120 kW number doesn't mean much to me.
My sister has an ID.4 and it's the same story there. However I do know there are cars that are much better at this, able to sustain quite high charging rate up to or above 50% SOC.
Agreedish. In the US I don’t think I’d support higher taxes for non EVs because cars are unfortunately a necessity here and EVs are (mostly artificially through govt policy) expensive.
But yes to your point of ICE cars suck. They’re so much more impressive engineering than EVs but that complexity is also their downfall imo.
I just bought a 1 year old Nissan Leaf for $15,000 in San Diego California.
The aversion to EVs in the US is mostly just american idiocy.
In the US 2/3 of people live in single family homes. That means NEVER using a public charging station.
Most of those households also own more than one car. So it's easy to retain a ICE vehicle for when it's really needed.
Let's just face the facts, the Scandinavian governments, and the Scandinavian people are just smarter than americans...
p.s. I expect this car to pay for itself in ~5 years, due to savings on gas. How long before your ICE vehicle pays for itself? Like most long term investments, it requires a smarter population.
The median new car price is around $50k and you can get new EVs well under that amount. If we weren’t in a trade war, BYD would sell you an EV for the same price as the cheapest ICE options.
I think this is just about new car sales? Less well off can still by used ICE, which is what they would be anyway. Or even used Model 3 are in the low $20k USD here. Used Chevy Bolt are $10-20k, some leafs are cheaper.
Americans can get a used Nissan Leaf for $10-$20k and it would accommodate virtually any daily commute plus side trips without ever spending a dollar on gas. I continue to be baffled year after year as to why more Americans don't go that route. At least those with detached homes or otherwise easy access to charging.
If nothing else, the fact that most Americans don't by a cheap EV as a second car (assuming they have need of one) is particularly baffling.
From experience living in southern America you will get ridiculed, pummelled to the side of the road, and blinded by F350s and Silverados. And constantly told it's your fault for having a car they couldn't see over their 8 ft hood.
The Tesla dealer told me to get a paint kit when I picked up my car, a few years ago; he called it the Tesla Texas Tax. People (used to) go out of their way to ding my car.
That’s an extremely long commute, so it might not be effective for them but there’s a huge percentage of the population who don’t have that problem. Roughly 9% of Americans have a commute that long, and if we got even half of the rest to switch we’d save an enormous amount of pollution and money while building out the charging infrastructure which would help the rest.
There's a reason a used Nissan Leaf is so cheap. In EVs, once the battery is done, the car is done, as replacing the battery is expensive. The more the battery is used, like any battery, the less capacity it has, the faster it drains, the lower your mile range.
The batteries in most electric vehicles will now effectively last the lifetime of the vehicle itself [0]. Like modern solar panels, it's effectively not a consideration any more.
Granted, there's a big range in the age of used Nissan Leaf's (Leaves?)
1) new Evs are still more expensive than new gas cars
2) in some states, the registration fees are higher (+$225 in Washington State)
3) if it's your only car it may be a bit limiting, unless you are willing to rent a gas car on occasion.
Living in Las Vegas, a Leaf was the perfect daily driver. The whole valley isn't big enough to ever go beyond the range in a single day no matter how many errands or kid soccer games. Plus you could remotely turn on the A/C which is a game changer in the desert. We also had a Land Rover Discovery (LR3) for when we wanted to drive to LA or Utah or whatever else.
> There's a reason why SUVs are the most popular type of car in the US
Not practicality for sure! The trunks of at least mid-sized SUVs are small and the trunks of mid-sized estate wagons are quite large. SUVs have a raised vehicle floor, which is terrible for driving dynamics, removes interior space, and adds air resistance.
SUVs are staggeringly stupid vehicles, but fashionable. Personally, I like some fashions, and others I ignore and avoid as hard as I can - SUVs are firmly in the latter category.
I thought we already understood that US large car sales was the result of the individualist culture and perceived improvements in safety from being in a heavier vehicle during a collision
Social signaling is important. Whether you like the game or not.
To not: In Europe, social signaling works in favor of biking… but only among a certain type of people (let’s say vegetarians). But it’s a circle of friends really hard to maintain because they also veto you if you take any non-ecologic decision.
So, long story short, social status signaling cannot be cancelled by ecologist status signaling. Seems like we’d have to appease tensions on both sides…
In Norway, there are plenty of cycling enthusiasts (for around-town transit, commuting, and exercise / fun) with all sorts of dietary approaches. I don’t think there’s any meaningful vegetarian / cycling correlation there.
The government essentially makes it unreasonable to buy any other type of car. Also gotta love that sweet sweet North Sea oil. So what happens to all that oil? I am sure it only emits lollipops and unicorns when it is burned.
It is estimated that the North Sea may have 24 billion barrels remaining. So they can hand off the pesky problem to other countries and be smug that they are going electric. As if electricity just falls from sky.
Must be a country where most trips are relatively short. ( a few 100 KMs or less ). A longer trip of a few 1000 KMs would need to stop for recharging several times.
I'd love an EV, but no suitable vehicle yet exists in the market that can match the capability I have (and routinely use) now.
High clearance 4x4, 1200km range, ability to seat 4 reasonably comfortably, 700kg payload, 800mm fording depth, priced under $80k USD. Table stakes specs for a diesel 4WD but the electric market isn't there yet.
Norway has put like 30 years of efforts into building up impressive electric transmission and EV-charging infrastructure. Check out e.g. these articles:
Also note that the amount of habitable land in Norway is rather limited, so you don't get to drive hundreds of miles over flat highway-friendly terrain, like e.g. in the US Midwest.
> Since more than 82% of EV users in Norway charge their vehicles at home, housing associations can apply for grants that subsidize up to 50 percent of the cost of buying and installing communal chargers.
I'm familiar with parking in your own garage and charging, or parking on the street with no infrastructure, but I don't understand how far away these chargers would be and whether they're usable overnight.
Due to the recent shifts in the economy, last year was a bit of a downer in terms of new cars sold[1], about 127000. In comparison 2021-2022 had roughly the same number of new cars sold[2], about 175000. The number of used cars sold was roughly the same across 2021-2023.
In 2023 roughly 20% of cars sold were new cars. In 2021-2022 roughly 25% of cars sold were new cars.
Roughly 50% of new cars in 2020 were BEVs. In 2023 that number was 82%. So far[3] in 2024 it's almost 87%.
Who needs a garage for charging? I’ve got a 7kWh charger on my driveway but no garage. Over the road there are chargers on the street lamps. Where I live I’ve even seen charger cables run inside gullies under pavements for people with no driveways.
Does Norway allow Chinese car makers into the market? Skoda is popular but I wish the article also mentioned the median value of an EV in Norway.
At least in the US, the cost of acquiring an EV is the major deterrent from what I can see. If you live in a city and you want to just get a cheap EV for under $25k for your typical commute, there's just no option in the US!
Readit News
The first two sentences make sense! Not the last one though. After driving an EV for a few thousand miles, ive realized they are so superior to ICE for my use case. I hate driving ICE vehicles in the occasions I still do now.
They were open for years as a means to foster EV adoption. But once sales took off, the local government tightened the screws — you needed an EV and also at least two people in the car to get access to the bus lane.
But! When they printed the new signs, somehow a double negative slipped through, and the text on the (many) signs said that you could only use the bus lane if you were driving alone in an EV. Obviously not the intent.
But currently, all the signs have the double negative condition crossed out, and all EVs continue to be able to use the bus lanes.
I vastly prefer my low-ish end EV (Hyundai Kona) to every ICE vehicle I've ever driven. Even if I wasn't saving ~$100/month in fuel costs, and even if I the environmental effects were a complete wash, I don't think I'd ever buy an ICE again.
I think the only reason I'd ever go to an ICE vehicle is if I needed something larger. Right now, if you need a "family transport" vehicle with space for adults, kids, luggage, etc, the EV world is pretty limited. I had high hopes for the VW Buzz, but it's total range is a bit borderline for me, although I still need to calculate out how it would compare for my typical long distance drive. The Kona has greater range, but a much slower max charge rate, and it might turn out that those balance each other out, and the Kona has been fine for the 10 hour road trips I've done so far.
Max charge rate is such a poor metric, as actual charge rate as a function of SOC varies so much between cars.
I'd like to see some standardized figure which is max average charge rate over 15 min, or perhaps minimum charge time for 30 kWh (~150 km range) or something along those lines.
My car has 120 kW peak IIRC, but I've never reached it. Once it's past 20% it has dropped to like 70 kW or something like that. And since I try my best to keep it above 20%, that 120 kW number doesn't mean much to me.
My sister has an ID.4 and it's the same story there. However I do know there are cars that are much better at this, able to sustain quite high charging rate up to or above 50% SOC.
But yes to your point of ICE cars suck. They’re so much more impressive engineering than EVs but that complexity is also their downfall imo.
The aversion to EVs in the US is mostly just american idiocy.
In the US 2/3 of people live in single family homes. That means NEVER using a public charging station.
Most of those households also own more than one car. So it's easy to retain a ICE vehicle for when it's really needed.
Let's just face the facts, the Scandinavian governments, and the Scandinavian people are just smarter than americans...
p.s. I expect this car to pay for itself in ~5 years, due to savings on gas. How long before your ICE vehicle pays for itself? Like most long term investments, it requires a smarter population.
I think the age of $1000 beaters is going to disappear. Just the raw metals in a completely dead EV battery are worth more if you recycle it.
Even more if it's only "dead" for EV use, there's still dozens of kilowatts of usable capacity for other uses as-is.
So no, many people can’t afford cars, but actually the EVs are the affordable options.
If nothing else, the fact that most Americans don't by a cheap EV as a second car (assuming they have need of one) is particularly baffling.
Granted, there's a big range in the age of used Nissan Leaf's (Leaves?)
[0] https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/07/heres-one-way-we-know-t...
I've never heard of an EV battery being "done". In practice they seem to be doing better that expected.
Granted, some users need more than 80% of the original range, but for them, there's a second hand market.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/leaf-nissan-owners-leg...
Not practicality for sure! The trunks of at least mid-sized SUVs are small and the trunks of mid-sized estate wagons are quite large. SUVs have a raised vehicle floor, which is terrible for driving dynamics, removes interior space, and adds air resistance.
SUVs are staggeringly stupid vehicles, but fashionable. Personally, I like some fashions, and others I ignore and avoid as hard as I can - SUVs are firmly in the latter category.
To not: In Europe, social signaling works in favor of biking… but only among a certain type of people (let’s say vegetarians). But it’s a circle of friends really hard to maintain because they also veto you if you take any non-ecologic decision.
So, long story short, social status signaling cannot be cancelled by ecologist status signaling. Seems like we’d have to appease tensions on both sides…
- they fed money from their oil into their sovereign fund, which invests in clean energy, so they invest in what they want more of
- they tax what they want less of
They have been slowly taken out.
High clearance 4x4, 1200km range, ability to seat 4 reasonably comfortably, 700kg payload, 800mm fording depth, priced under $80k USD. Table stakes specs for a diesel 4WD but the electric market isn't there yet.
https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/08/how-norway-became-the-w...
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/automotive-and-assembly/...
Also note that the amount of habitable land in Norway is rather limited, so you don't get to drive hundreds of miles over flat highway-friendly terrain, like e.g. in the US Midwest.
I'm familiar with parking in your own garage and charging, or parking on the street with no infrastructure, but I don't understand how far away these chargers would be and whether they're usable overnight.
In 2023 roughly 20% of cars sold were new cars. In 2021-2022 roughly 25% of cars sold were new cars.
Roughly 50% of new cars in 2020 were BEVs. In 2023 that number was 82%. So far[3] in 2024 it's almost 87%.
[1]: https://ofv.no/bilsalget/bilsalget-i-desember-2023
[2]: https://ofv.no/bilsalget/bilsalget-i-desember_2022
[3]: https://ofv.no/bilsalget/bilsalget-i-august-2024
I tend to see mostly new cars, no clue what the breakdown is, though.
At least in the US, the cost of acquiring an EV is the major deterrent from what I can see. If you live in a city and you want to just get a cheap EV for under $25k for your typical commute, there's just no option in the US!