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Iambecomedeath · 2 years ago
We (Nepali) have been using this material to make lokta paper for a long time now. These papers (Nepali Kaagaz) are used mainly today for official documents.
kragen · 2 years ago
apparently https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daphne_bholua and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daphne_papyracea, the usual species for lokta paper, are in a different genus in the same family as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgeworthia_chrysantha; is it possible the argeli mentioned is an edgeworthia species rather than a daphne species?

edit: twic found https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40039860 that it's edgeworthia gardneri, which was originally classified as daphne gardneri by the gardner who originally named it

altilunium · 2 years ago
Found this excerpt from [1]

> I dedicate this beautiful genus to Mr. M. P. Edgeworth, Esq., to whom we owe a valuable description of the vegetation and agriculture in the Sikh states in northwestern India (Hooker's Journal of Botany, II. p. 267), and I combine this with the wish to also pay tribute to his famous sister, Miss Maria Edgeworth, who has become dear to all educated people through her writings, which are marked by rare depth and fullness of mind and spirit, as a warm admirer of nature and the natural sciences, with a modest monument.

Now I'm curious about the reason behind its "gardneri" name.

> Edgeworthia Gardneri nob. Tab. I. E. with petiolate, oblong-elliptic leaves, acute on both ends, glabrous above, slightly hairy below, peduncles thickened at the apex, hemispherical capitula, involucre with lanceolate acuminate leaves subequal to the flowers, flowers subvillous-tomentose with yellowish pubescence. Hab. in Nepal, where it was discovered by Mr. Wallich in 1820.

There are too many high-level botanical terms here, I can't understand anything.

[1] : https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/34664378#page/293/m...

pvaldes · 2 years ago
Daphne is a complicated material to manipulate. All its parts are very poisonous. Edgeworthia is a little safer, it seems.
dartos · 2 years ago
Edgeworthia?

Anyone else reminded of the Phoenix Wright games?

kylehotchkiss · 2 years ago
That's cool, is it something tourists could buy?
Iambecomedeath · 2 years ago
Yes absolutely. Lokta papers can be found at mostly any stationeries in Nepal and notebooks of various designs are made using this paper.
PetitPrince · 2 years ago
Reading this article, I was I itially surprised to read to Japan had to import raw material given their strong paper tradition (shoji , washi, origami, etc.). But then the article states that

> Shrinking rural populations and climate change were driving Japan’s farmers to abandon their labor-intensive plots.

Makes sense to try to conserve this resource somehow.

tim333 · 2 years ago
Probably a lot cheaper to get it from Nepal.
pvaldes · 2 years ago
Let me guess... Edgeworthia crysantha?

EDIT. Yup. I can see the article now. That photo is unmistakable. Is a famous Japanese shrub used since a lot of time. The only difference is the new area of culture it seems. Formerly known as E. papyrifera.

Can be cultured in gardens, reduced size, and very nice fragrant blossoms in early spring. Fluffy flowers with the feel of a teddy bear. Needs acid soil.

kragen · 2 years ago
the article maybe claims it's a different species? the reporter doesn't seem to know much about botany, so they're a little vague
pvaldes · 2 years ago
The photos depict this species[1]. This is the traditional one on Japanese bureaucracy for very important documents so is basically irreplaceable, because historical reasons.

Edgeworthia is a relatively small, relatively slow grower so there are also two species more that provide good quality fibers and could be mixed with that. One is a relative of the mulberry tree and the other a member of the same family that includes Edgeworthia.

[1] EDIT. Selfcorrection. The photos depict an Egdeworthia, but could be other species in the same genus as other have pointed, yep.

kragen · 2 years ago
specifically argeli, a term which has no wikipedia article; mitsumata (which the article says is the name of the paper) is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgeworthia_chrysantha. the wikipedia article says the papers are washi and, in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_tissue, kitakata.

the econometrics from the article

> This year, Mr. Sherpa has hired 60 local Nepalis to help him process his harvest and expects to earn eight million Nepali rupees, or $60,000, in profit. (The average annual income in Nepal is about $1,340, according to the World Bank.) Mr. Sherpa hopes to produce 20 of the 140 tons that Nepal will be shipping to Japan. ¶ That’s a majority of the mitsumata needed to print yen ...

suggests that the total available profit is 420 thousand dollars, enough to support 313 nepalis (though perhaps the workers' wages are more than the landowner's profit, i suspect that they are, instead, smaller). the population of nepal is 30.7 million people, so this probably will not be a major new nepali export if it's just for the japanese mint. hopefully the article will make it fashionable among hipsters seeking better materials for their moleskines?

unfortunately the reporter did not think it was important to include the scientific name of the plant, so i guess we're out of luck

edit: as twic points out, it's almost certainly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgeworthia_gardneri, so i've updated wikipedia

twic · 2 years ago
> Edgeworthia gardneri (common names: Indian papertree,[2] Nepalese paperbush;[2] Nepali: अर्गेली (Argelee))[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgeworthia_gardneri

pvaldes · 2 years ago
Hum. If is E. gardneri then is not culture, is dismantlement of the nepali forests to make money (literally). That would be very sad.
kragen · 2 years ago
hey, this is great! thanks!
698969 · 2 years ago
I wonder if the demand is expected to remain stable..

The article mentions that Japan redesigns its currency every 20 years, and they're doing so this year.

returningfory2 · 2 years ago
> hopefully the article will make it fashionable among hipsters seeking better materials for their moleskines?

If that happens we’ll be reading articles about how unfair it is that western consumers are pricing the Nepalese people out of their local products (a la quinoa).

MichaelZuo · 2 years ago
I don’t think all the hipsters in the world could consume that much specialty paper in a year, so it’s unlikely to be an issue.
kragen · 2 years ago
you can read that stuff if you like i guess. in fact if you really want to read it you can get gpt-4 to generate it today, without having to wait for it to actually happen: http://sprunge.us/REx4gD
roydivision · 2 years ago
Clarification - not one single shrub
zeristor · 2 years ago
A veritable shrubbery, Ni!
ho243i2434324 · 2 years ago
Does anyone know how mitsumata got to Japan in the first place.

"Traditional paper" I imagine is something they've had since before the age of European colonization which brought all sorts of trade/exchange. Eg. The national-dish of 'curry' in Japan is a British twist on Indian one, and so you almost inevitably find Beef in it.

kragen · 2 years ago
it grows wild in china, which is where paper was invented, and which is separated from japan by the east china sea; shanghai is only about 1000km from kyushu. korea, which borders china, is even closer, about 200km: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7650836,121.5784141,6z?entry...

if you count the ryukyu islands as 'japan', ishigaki is only about 100 km from taiwan

european colonization is totally irrelevant here

vinni2 · 2 years ago
Money doesn’t grow on trees but grows as shrubs