I don't have much on the way of valuable insights or conversation starters, I just think this story is sweet and these 2 brothers obviously love the hell out of each other, made me happy to read :)
My 8 yr old identical twin daughter’s have severe autism but one is definitely worse than the other, one of them can use some words but the other is completely unable to communicate.
I have absolutely no explanation for this, I cannot think of anything different that happened to them. They didn’t have antibiotics or surgery at a young age like in this story either.
Thank you this is helpful. The genetic part makes sense to me, my wife has PCOS and they have a history of ovarian problems in their family. There are studies linking PCOS and autism and to high levels of testosterone.
It was my understanding that Autism was more or less that the neurons in the brain expanded further than they could support and the parts that weren't supported atrophied, kinda like a tree that overgrew, think what happens to a fruit tree that isn't pruned. Everyone's brain does some growth and pruning as needed, but something happens with autism that more or less it goes too far and then the parts that atrophy are less controlled than an average brain. This is why savants etc.
This process could express completely different in people that were more or less the same genetically, just one day in a womb where they got different amounts of nutrition could cause differences to manifest, then a lifetime of small differences would further manifest differently.
One theory about autism is that it's caused by some sort of problem in synaptic pruning early in development. I don't think there's actually that much evidence for this theory, but if it is in fact caused by something like that, there could perhaps be a high degree of randomness in terms of how it affects different areas of the brain.
This article annoys me to all ends. It started out badly by referring to autism as a disability, but it got worse in the fact that they’re assuming all of John’s symptoms are because he’s autistic. All of his disabilities can much easier be ascribed to brain damage post-partum. That hole in his heart meant he was getting less blood flow and less oxygen at a critical time in his brain development.
The fact that both twins are autistic has nothing to do with it!
Definitionally, at least in the US, Autism is a disability. It's a qualifier for the Americans with Disabilities Act.
The specific definition: "A disability is a physical or mental impairment that makes it harder for a person to perform certain activities or interact with the world around them."
For many ASD makes it harder to interact with the world around them, whether that's overstimulation, communication challenges, or something else.
It's reasonable to wonder if the disabilities were caused by brain damage post-partum or are symptomatic of his autism. At the same time we shouldn't forget the many others with ASD and similar disabilities who lack another explanation. Some of the population with ASD have limited communication skills and cannot pass as neurotypical.
One needs to be all but infallible to not match that definition, but normies are far from infallibility, they have difficulty with responsibility, technology, monopolies, network effect, propaganda, peer pressure, i.e. they can't interact quite well with either world or society.
You appear to have invented your own definition of disability and put it in quotes. A google search for your quoted definition only turns up this very web page. Odd.
>For many ASD makes it harder to interact with the world around them, whether that's overstimulation, communication challenges, or something else.
No it doesn't. They get frustrated by the other's inability to do so. They need to live in a society, and instead are surrounded by individuals who hardly interact, and hardly any culture, as everything has degraded to what the brain damaged majority can deal with. The music has simplified to a simple beat, the movies have simplified to beasts screaming half sentences at each other, and beating each other up, or, whatever.
This seems to bolster the theory that autism is modulated by the gut-brain axis.
Being given antibiotics at such an early age will probably severely dysregulation gut microbiota.
And GABA actually does cross the BBB but in small amounts. Perhaps at such an early age, dysregulation in GABA produced in the gut has significant effects on brain health - over stimulation, learning memory issues, etc.
> Being given antibiotics at such an early age will probably severely dysregulation gut microbiota.
It’s extremely common for young kids to receive antibiotics. In some countries, antibiotics are over the counter and many parents will give their kids antibiotics for nearly any infection. Antibiotic misuse is rampant in some countries where they aren’t gated behind prescriptions.
Any such link with autism would therefore be an extremely rare side effect. The rate of antibiotic use in children is far higher than the rate of autism.
I don’t think this case supports the antibiotic theory by itself at all. I think it’s confirmation bias because antibiotics are one of the current trending theories among mainstream discussion.
Antibiotics refer to a group of drugs. Eating food from the supermarket will expose a child to antibiotics. Different classes of antibiotics have a lifelong effects while common ones are quickier to recover from.
Reading the article, it turns out the one twin who is "more autistic" had a hole in his heart that surgery had to correct. So I suspect the actual issue here is something simpler like a difference in brain development because of the difference in the amount of blood flow.
My theory is that this causation is flipped. Something about whatever the precursor to autism is causes the body to experience more physical failures or malformed structures.
Something like whatever mechanisms decode structure from the genome are faulty and produce slightly wrong structures throughout the brain and body.
Anecdotally, I see a higher rate of general illness and physical birth defects in autistic people.
That’s possible but he did get crazy antibiotics as well.
FTA:
“The infection was from drug-resistant staph bacteria. So John went back to the hospital and spent a month on powerful antibiotics pumped directly into a vein near his heart.”
Isn't autism much older than antibiotics? I mean it couldn't be - I haven't actually researched it but I'm pretty sure autism is older than antibiotics.
Pretty sure what is being asserted is that gut bacteria may influence brain function and antibiotics can have influence on gut bacteria. Those are both complex systems, so there could be many other factors as well as wide variations.
Severity can be modulated by the environment, it’s not that autism didn’t exist it but we can say for sure that antibiotics didn’t make anyone worse before it was invented.
"The infection was from drug-resistant staph bacteria. So John went back to the hospital and spent a month on powerful antibiotics pumped directly into a vein near his heart."
There are so many confounding factors here. Could be no connection to the episode whatever. Could be that the infection that required the antibiotics contributed to the autism. Could be the antibiotics contributed directly. Could be the overall trauma of the surgery, treatment and recovery.
Seems like the gut thing is the least likely culprit and requires quite a lot of creativity to even consider it.
One of my sons had a heart defect needing open heart surgery when he was 5 days old (it went fine!). In connection to that he was enrolled in a scientific study. Apparently when you are in a heart and lung machine as an infant (<1 month old) the pressure in the machine is so great compare to the normal pressure that the blood cells break creating free radicals. These free radicals can in turn create damage in the brain which can later on cause problems with executive functions and complex reasoning. Autistic people also have problems with executive functions (my other son has Asperger’s). Now I’m not saying that free radicals cause autism but maybe they modulate it when the same parts of the brain are affected by them during infancy.
Have they actually sequenced their genes and compared them? If there is a genetic explanation, then any mutations or replication errors during pregnancy would end up screaming into your face once you do the comparison.
He spent a month in a hospital as a small child. Of course this impacted his autism. We know that social interaction, play therapy, etc can be effective at reducing the severity and impact of autism and this is the direct opposite. How do you think a small child is going to learn about social interaction if they're stuck in a hospital without as much interaction and with much of the interaction being to the point? They're likely bored and witnessing the dry, clinical interactions of many of the staff. Neither of which are helpful.
Even staying a few days as a toddler is highly impactful on normal kids. They often don't understand why people are hurting them (IV, blood draws, ecg stickers, etc). They hate being stuck in the bed or their room for days with just toys and screens to play with - no running of course. In my experience it seems that fears and nightmares are common. The way the kid interacts can change for a short time after getting home (not as interested in the same type of play as before, happier with screen time, not as trusting of others, etc). Staying in a hospital is rough for someone who is fully developed and knows what's going, it's way more impactful for those who aren't.
The number of words young minds hear during the early stages of development has a great impact on future language skills. The studies I'm aware of mostly focusing on developing reading skills. I find it plausible that spending one's first month in a hospital could have a long term communication development gap.
I once was hospitalized for depression and drug use when I was a teenager and my warcraft 3 stats never recovered after that. I always wondered if there were studies on that sorta thing.
Readit News
Reading your comment made me actually want to read the article in question and I am super glad I did.
Emotionally, probably a best reminder of familial love in a world filled with indifference and often hate
I have absolutely no explanation for this, I cannot think of anything different that happened to them. They didn’t have antibiotics or surgery at a young age like in this story either.
The mystery to me was why they are so different.
This process could express completely different in people that were more or less the same genetically, just one day in a womb where they got different amounts of nutrition could cause differences to manifest, then a lifetime of small differences would further manifest differently.
Dead Comment
The fact that both twins are autistic has nothing to do with it!
The specific definition: "A disability is a physical or mental impairment that makes it harder for a person to perform certain activities or interact with the world around them." For many ASD makes it harder to interact with the world around them, whether that's overstimulation, communication challenges, or something else.
It's reasonable to wonder if the disabilities were caused by brain damage post-partum or are symptomatic of his autism. At the same time we shouldn't forget the many others with ASD and similar disabilities who lack another explanation. Some of the population with ASD have limited communication skills and cannot pass as neurotypical.
No it doesn't. They get frustrated by the other's inability to do so. They need to live in a society, and instead are surrounded by individuals who hardly interact, and hardly any culture, as everything has degraded to what the brain damaged majority can deal with. The music has simplified to a simple beat, the movies have simplified to beasts screaming half sentences at each other, and beating each other up, or, whatever.
It’s extremely common for young kids to receive antibiotics. In some countries, antibiotics are over the counter and many parents will give their kids antibiotics for nearly any infection. Antibiotic misuse is rampant in some countries where they aren’t gated behind prescriptions.
Any such link with autism would therefore be an extremely rare side effect. The rate of antibiotic use in children is far higher than the rate of autism.
I don’t think this case supports the antibiotic theory by itself at all. I think it’s confirmation bias because antibiotics are one of the current trending theories among mainstream discussion.
This is not «extremely common».
Something like whatever mechanisms decode structure from the genome are faulty and produce slightly wrong structures throughout the brain and body.
Anecdotally, I see a higher rate of general illness and physical birth defects in autistic people.
FTA: “The infection was from drug-resistant staph bacteria. So John went back to the hospital and spent a month on powerful antibiotics pumped directly into a vein near his heart.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9896080/
"The infection was from drug-resistant staph bacteria. So John went back to the hospital and spent a month on powerful antibiotics pumped directly into a vein near his heart."
There are so many confounding factors here. Could be no connection to the episode whatever. Could be that the infection that required the antibiotics contributed to the autism. Could be the antibiotics contributed directly. Could be the overall trauma of the surgery, treatment and recovery.
Seems like the gut thing is the least likely culprit and requires quite a lot of creativity to even consider it.
Dead Comment
I can tell from the folds and wrinkles on Sam's face that he engages in more neurotypical communication.
Deleted Comment
Even staying a few days as a toddler is highly impactful on normal kids. They often don't understand why people are hurting them (IV, blood draws, ecg stickers, etc). They hate being stuck in the bed or their room for days with just toys and screens to play with - no running of course. In my experience it seems that fears and nightmares are common. The way the kid interacts can change for a short time after getting home (not as interested in the same type of play as before, happier with screen time, not as trusting of others, etc). Staying in a hospital is rough for someone who is fully developed and knows what's going, it's way more impactful for those who aren't.