This just boggles my mind. First time I heard about this was when I saw the headline on Fox News, and I initially thought it was just an hyperbole. But now I see it repeated in more reputable media orgs and I still can't understand how this is happening.
The NYPD has one of the largest police budgets in the world, they have their own intelligence division and even overseas offices, and yet they seem unable to be able to station officers on the subway and now the national guard needs to step up. How did it come to this?
And the attention is because of optics rather than reality. From the article:
> Hochul has tried to mount a more aggressive public safety messaging strategy after Republicans campaigned on crime concerns and performed well in House races around New York City in the 2022 elections.
It doesn't matter whether you have a crime wave or not if people watch Fox News and believe you have a crime wave.
I believe some part of it is that this is led by the governor, and the governor can’t deploy NYPD on her own. The subway is also a state system, so deploying a state system (National Guard) to another state system makes sense to me.
I do wonder how much of this is data driven vs a combination of fear mongering by the usual suspects and reacting to fear mongering, and thus causing its own fear issues.
Granted homicide isn't the only violent crime in the world but there were the headlines a week or so ago that homicide rates were far higher in the states complaining about NYC's crime than NYC has. Is it really *that* dangerous?
The homicide rate in cities needs to be lower than primarily rural or suburban or small city states. This is because cities require citizens to be more trusting of one another due to close proximity. It takes a much lower crime rate to make a city feel unsafe compared to a less populated area.
I don't understand why this concept is still hard to grasp. If you lived in a low trust high crime society would you rather live in a tenement building or have your own acreage and gun?
That being said, yes Nyc is safer than many cities thanks to Giulianis continued policies that make new York city policing closer to a right wing fever dream than many would like to admit.
No. NYC crime is lower than almost every major city.
It's always fun when finding out someone who lives in a rural area has a higher per capita crime rate than NYC while they complain about how NYC is a crime shithole.
There are a decent number of NYPD officers in the subway system, but they do not seem to be utilized effectively.
They almost exclusively congregate near station entrances, rather than patrolling the platforms where incidents actually occur.
Policing issues worldwide always seem like some bizarre budgeting priority issue to me. They're happy to spend many millions upgrading their vehicle fleets and equipment each year - kit that is perfectly fit for purpose in most cases, much of it only 5 or 6 years old - yet they can't afford to get bodies on the ground or respond to crime-in-progress calls. Seems to be classic white elephant behaviour.
To be frank, the general public doesn't care about the extreme crime that most police forces concern themselves with. They just want to feel safe on the subway or walk home from work. They want to be able to have a delivery left on their doorstep and not be stolen. They want to be able to park their car without someone smashing their window to steal some spare change. Yet little funding ever seems to come together to do anything about that; it all goes into the exciting anti-terrorism unit or drug-enforcement agency and the likem which make up the tiniest fraction of actual crimes.
This sounds like just sensational panic being exploited by Hochul to distract from her incompetence. The MTA is a mess, but it's a mess because of mismanagement by the state of NY.
Crime has been trending downward. There was an increase in major crime in January, but it's dropped again. Barring some strange explation otherwise, that can be chalked up to a statistical artifact against a long-term decline:
> In mid-2022, there was about one violent crime per one million rides on the subway, according to a New York Times analysis. Since then, the overall crime rate has fallen and ridership has increased, making the likelihood of being a victim of a violent crime even more remote. Last year, overall crime in the transit system fell nearly 3 percent compared with 2022 as the number of daily riders rose 14 percent.
> The downward trend stalled early this year, with the number of major crimes in the transit system jumping in January before dipping again in February. Through March 3, there had been three homicides in the system, compared with one in the same period last year, according to police data. Overall, major crimes, including felony assaults, burglaries and grand larcenies, have increased 13 percent so far this year, the data shows.
> This sounds like just sensational panic being exploited by Hochul to distract from her incompetence. The MTA is a mess, but it's a mess because of mismanagement by the state of NY.
This 100%. Sensationalism. She's just using high profile recent issues to _look_ like she's doing something.
Also, what happens in practice if they refuse. Years ago in a different major US city, the local authorities had set up semi-random TSA style checkpoints for subway stations as a pilot project. When I was on my way home from work they were set up at the station where I'd get on the subway. I refused and left, deciding I'd rather walk home.
I got about 5 mins down the road when I realized a couple of large men were running after me. They were clearly cops, though plain clothes. As they caught up to me one pushed me so I'd stop and they blocked my path. Gave me all kinds of grief, wanting to know why I refused. There was an obvious implication that I'd done something wrong. I gave a few cursory answers to their questions, then started responding with "Am I being detained". The latter only incited them further.
Thankfully at some point they gave up instead of actually detaining me. They chewed me out, told me they were going to radio their buddies at upcoming stations so I wouldn't try to get on there either, and stormed off.
I love it. Just sitting here daydreaming how nice transit in San Diego could be if the trolley had just one or two officers per station and one on the train. The residents of mega apartments built on the stations would actually use them. The parking situation downtown could improve. The evening congestion would lighten. People would rather struggle with parking and traffic even if they live at a transit station with the trains in their current unpoliced state.
Complete ignorance of who military members are, how they are screened and recruited, and how they think is sadly the rule in the civilian world, not the exception.
In addition to having to pass a medical records screen, most US servicemembers come from the middle three socioeconomic quintiles of the population. It is literally a middle-class institution. Yet the trope lives on of the supposedly stupid military member who only joined because they had no options.
I am serious. Ye, well, I'd argue the type of person that really can't "take shit" wont survive very long as a cop. Either litteraly or by being fired.
Among soldiers that type is way more common as they are not being filtered out since they are not exposed to it. (The NCO:s being mean in boot camp is not the same thing since the soldier is a subordinate.)
The optics are also really, really bad. I recall putting my bags through a scanner and walking through a metal detector when I visited Beijing in 2018. My first thought was “wow, must suck to live in a police state like this, can’t even take transit without being searched.”
And if the past is any indication, they'll be deployed without any ammunition. To avoid people bringing some spare bullets, they also remove the bolts from the rifles. It's a good safety precaution, but I wonder what will happen if the violent criminals discover this.
Well ok that is good at least the commanders share my risk assessment. I don't think criminals will try to steal rifles from the guardsmen. The officers might wield pistols too.
"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people." — Commander William Adama
These are national guard, not full time military. One weekend a month, two weeks a year. Citizen soldier.
I would guess, on average, that they're more mentally stable than, on average, police considering that many go into national guard service to fund their college aspirations.
All the enforcement won’t matter if the DA continues to release repeat offenders. A tiny minority of people commit a significant proportion of crime in the city, whether they’re detained at the end of a glock or an M4 doesn’t change the long term outcome if they’re back on the streets the next day.
Readit News
The NYPD has one of the largest police budgets in the world, they have their own intelligence division and even overseas offices, and yet they seem unable to be able to station officers on the subway and now the national guard needs to step up. How did it come to this?
> Hochul has tried to mount a more aggressive public safety messaging strategy after Republicans campaigned on crime concerns and performed well in House races around New York City in the 2022 elections.
It doesn't matter whether you have a crime wave or not if people watch Fox News and believe you have a crime wave.
If this is the case, why wouldn't she just put pressure on Mayor Adams to deploy more police?
Granted homicide isn't the only violent crime in the world but there were the headlines a week or so ago that homicide rates were far higher in the states complaining about NYC's crime than NYC has. Is it really *that* dangerous?
I don't understand why this concept is still hard to grasp. If you lived in a low trust high crime society would you rather live in a tenement building or have your own acreage and gun?
That being said, yes Nyc is safer than many cities thanks to Giulianis continued policies that make new York city policing closer to a right wing fever dream than many would like to admit.
It's always fun when finding out someone who lives in a rural area has a higher per capita crime rate than NYC while they complain about how NYC is a crime shithole.
To be frank, the general public doesn't care about the extreme crime that most police forces concern themselves with. They just want to feel safe on the subway or walk home from work. They want to be able to have a delivery left on their doorstep and not be stolen. They want to be able to park their car without someone smashing their window to steal some spare change. Yet little funding ever seems to come together to do anything about that; it all goes into the exciting anti-terrorism unit or drug-enforcement agency and the likem which make up the tiniest fraction of actual crimes.
I am not saying that police prioritize their deployment of officers properly. I’m just saying they likely don’t pay for military surplus.
Crime has been trending downward. There was an increase in major crime in January, but it's dropped again. Barring some strange explation otherwise, that can be chalked up to a statistical artifact against a long-term decline:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/06/nyregion/nyc-subway-crime...
> In mid-2022, there was about one violent crime per one million rides on the subway, according to a New York Times analysis. Since then, the overall crime rate has fallen and ridership has increased, making the likelihood of being a victim of a violent crime even more remote. Last year, overall crime in the transit system fell nearly 3 percent compared with 2022 as the number of daily riders rose 14 percent.
> The downward trend stalled early this year, with the number of major crimes in the transit system jumping in January before dipping again in February. Through March 3, there had been three homicides in the system, compared with one in the same period last year, according to police data. Overall, major crimes, including felony assaults, burglaries and grand larcenies, have increased 13 percent so far this year, the data shows.
This 100%. Sensationalism. She's just using high profile recent issues to _look_ like she's doing something.
But are they free to take public transportation to work?
I got about 5 mins down the road when I realized a couple of large men were running after me. They were clearly cops, though plain clothes. As they caught up to me one pushed me so I'd stop and they blocked my path. Gave me all kinds of grief, wanting to know why I refused. There was an obvious implication that I'd done something wrong. I gave a few cursory answers to their questions, then started responding with "Am I being detained". The latter only incited them further.
Thankfully at some point they gave up instead of actually detaining me. They chewed me out, told me they were going to radio their buddies at upcoming stations so I wouldn't try to get on there either, and stormed off.
They were not recruited with the kind of mental stability in mind that you need to deal with all the BS cops need to deal with.
I honestly can't tell if this is meant to be serious or in jest.
I agree with the sentiment, but the reality is neither are cops.
In addition to having to pass a medical records screen, most US servicemembers come from the middle three socioeconomic quintiles of the population. It is literally a middle-class institution. Yet the trope lives on of the supposedly stupid military member who only joined because they had no options.
Among soldiers that type is way more common as they are not being filtered out since they are not exposed to it. (The NCO:s being mean in boot camp is not the same thing since the soldier is a subordinate.)
I would guess, on average, that they're more mentally stable than, on average, police considering that many go into national guard service to fund their college aspirations.
1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-and-frisk_in_New_York_Cit...