I really appreciate them highlighting both the refurbs and the b-stock this way. My 13" framework is a refurb - I've had no problems with it, and I'm glad for the opportunity to reduce or at least amortize the production costs. I'm really looking forward to when they get the marketplace up for second-hand parts, but I love this as part of their overall commitment to reducing waste & encouraging repair and reuse.
I've been a big framework fan, but have had to hit the pause button. They haven't updated the firmware for some models for ~two years, which is not acceptable.
We have two and the AMD still wakes up frequently (latest fw and kernel, not as bad as before) and all are still vulnerable to LogoFail as far as I know.
After two years and two replacements, my Framework board is really showing its age. The battery doesn't last more than a couple hours. Fans drive uncomfortably loud and hot. It won't even power on without being plugged in, despite the battery being full. Weird slowdowns that will cripple my system for half a minute at a time under any significant load. This is all despite multiple clean installs.
My XPS 13 from 5 years ago is a more consistent performer than the Framework. I wouldn't recommend to anyone they purchase a Framework.
Sounds like you have hardware problems and need to speak with support (again). My issue is not likely hardware, but that firmware is not shipped often enough.
I've kept an eye on the github to see if firmware has matured to the point of promise for their second-hand mainboard market, and so far, it has not.
As you say, wake up and sleep are still broken, making them poorer options for Steam Deck clones than Panda or other x86 boards. It's just not in a good enough state to pay to advertise capability that isn't being provided. They're not terrible, and I hope they work it out, but the overselling and paid marketing campaigns feels very dishonest.
> They haven't updated the firmware for some models for ~two years, which is not acceptable.
Wow, I looked this up and yep, 11th/12th gen Intel Framework laptops havent had firmware updates since late 2022. Its closer to one year than two, but that is still a long time. My substantially older (8th gen Intel) Dell laptop got 4 firmware updates just last year, all of which contained security fixes.
Still testing. But I got the impression in community threads they don’t have enough people on it, and/or insyde is not helping enough. Hard to know from outside.
this is sad, I have been debating buying a framework simply because I support there mission. But, I type this from a apple MacBook that I haven't charged in ~36hrs
Linux kernel 6.7.4, though I've only been on it a few days. Came directly from 6.6.x. I think 6.7 has improved it further, but I won't know for a few more days. Fedora dnf says 6.7.5 is coming today.
True, but many a computer I've bought (including my last 2 non Mac laptops), I replaced the RAM and SSD immediately, so I didn't benefit from them being included (other than being able to prove the machine works upon delivery before turning it back off for the upgrade).
Not necessarily, my current 8th Gen Intel laptop is doing fine, but if I were to upgrade, I'd probably want to carry the Wi-Fi (Intel AX200), 16GB of RAM, and the SSD to the new one
(Both the RAM and Wi-Fi have been upgraded by me from the original ones)
Taking them an awfully long time to start shipping to more EU countries. At this rate I doubt I'll ever buy one. Not really keen on using freight forwarding services and dealing with all that in case of needing support.
Why are they making 13-inch laptops? It looks like a toy: small keyboard with tiny keys, tiny screen which cannot display IDE, tiny touchpad. If you want something small and lightweight to take with you, isn't it better to buy a 13-inch tablet then?
"isn't it better to buy a 13-inch tablet then?"
No. Tablets are for consuming media and are terrible at anything else. Plus with a keyboard case they weigh more than at 13" laptop.
> Tablets are for consuming media and are terrible at anything else
They are not necessarily great for consuming media, either: in my experience, tablet screens get mucky very quickly, not least because a tablet's primary mode of interaction is rubbing your fingers on it. I think tablets are nice devices, but I wouldn't buy one in preference to a laptop unless I had a specific use-case in mind.
I have one. The keyboard is quite comfortable, even with my large hands. The screen is both high resolution and almost square, making it quite comfortable to code on. The touchpad is a comfortable size and responsive.
I think the size and proportions are ideal for a small, thin laptop. Conversely all of the large tablets I've tried have had uncomfortable detachable keyboards and OK at best touchpads.
One of my favorite laptops ever was a later gen 11" MacBook Air. Fit into the smallest bags. Flipped open and working instantly anywhere. Sturdy, always on me, fantastic for writing and even coding. I just had to get good at switching desktops and apps with hotkeys and trimming down chrome. Traded screen space for physical space. The city became my office.
I'm never getting a tablet again. The lack of keyboard, separate pointing device tenders it a toy. My tablets have all sat unused. I've always preferred a 13" laptop because 99% of the time it's on my desk hooked up to power, keyboard, mouse and huge monitor via a single cable. But for that 1% of the time when I need to bring it with me, I pull out the cable and walk off with it in one hand. It weighs 1kg, has a pretty decent keyboard and a gorgeous OLED screen. And it cost less than a grand.
Isn't the keyboard and touchpad exactly the same as on the 16" ?
I assume they're taking the same approach as Apple, and have the same input components but just padd around on the larger models.
The screen resolution is a tad too low on the framework laptops, but 3~4K would allow for enough pixels to reduce screen elements comfortably. At lrast that worked pretty well with the macbook pro, 13" at max resolution was good for 99% of my work.
You can absolutely run an IDE in 13”, even if it’s not the most comfortable experience. And you can always dock and output to a large external monitor.
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We have two and the AMD still wakes up frequently (latest fw and kernel, not as bad as before) and all are still vulnerable to LogoFail as far as I know.
My XPS 13 from 5 years ago is a more consistent performer than the Framework. I wouldn't recommend to anyone they purchase a Framework.
As you say, wake up and sleep are still broken, making them poorer options for Steam Deck clones than Panda or other x86 boards. It's just not in a good enough state to pay to advertise capability that isn't being provided. They're not terrible, and I hope they work it out, but the overselling and paid marketing campaigns feels very dishonest.
Wow, I looked this up and yep, 11th/12th gen Intel Framework laptops havent had firmware updates since late 2022. Its closer to one year than two, but that is still a long time. My substantially older (8th gen Intel) Dell laptop got 4 firmware updates just last year, all of which contained security fixes.
(Both the RAM and Wi-Fi have been upgraded by me from the original ones)
Because some of us travel?
"isn't it better to buy a 13-inch tablet then?" No. Tablets are for consuming media and are terrible at anything else. Plus with a keyboard case they weigh more than at 13" laptop.
They are not necessarily great for consuming media, either: in my experience, tablet screens get mucky very quickly, not least because a tablet's primary mode of interaction is rubbing your fingers on it. I think tablets are nice devices, but I wouldn't buy one in preference to a laptop unless I had a specific use-case in mind.
I think the size and proportions are ideal for a small, thin laptop. Conversely all of the large tablets I've tried have had uncomfortable detachable keyboards and OK at best touchpads.
13” tables are just weird uncomfortable laptops that lack a keyboard.
I assume they're taking the same approach as Apple, and have the same input components but just padd around on the larger models.
The screen resolution is a tad too low on the framework laptops, but 3~4K would allow for enough pixels to reduce screen elements comfortably. At lrast that worked pretty well with the macbook pro, 13" at max resolution was good for 99% of my work.
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