If they're selling it at cost or at a loss (I don't know if they are) as a value-add to the PS5 then they wouldn't want people buying it just to play emulators.
As long as retro sales exceed the cost to lock the device down you will see stuff like this. I recall one time paying for FF7 which I played on PS3/PSP. That game alone probably makes it worth it.
The argument usually goes like this, but has zero evidence in real life. Even PS2 which was quite infamous for the amount of unlocks and hacks, sold really well and was very successful. I think business do that not to protect sales or anything but to appease shareholders.
If you want a game console company to sell a totally open console, that’s just a willing misunderstanding of the game market on your part.
Even the Steam Deck as the most open commercial console on the market is pretty clever in that it doesn’t stop you from using competing software stores, but you still need to invest significant effort into getting them to work. Getting my free copy of Control on the Epic Games Store to work on the console was something that took me a significant amount of time. I could imagine a less technical person being completely unable to do it, but if you owned the game on Steam you just click a button and play.
In my opinion, if Sony wasn’t being supremely lazy they would have made the Portal with AMD x86 hardware similar to the Steam Deck and designed it to natively play your PS5/PS4 library on the go instead of making it a streaming-only device.
>but you still need to invest significant effort into getting them to work
This is far more related to their lack of Linux support, and forcing launcher usage via Steam for some games (EA, Ubisoft) than Valve making it difficult on purpose. Nothing stopping you from using Desktop Mode to do whatever you want on the device otherwise.
> but you still need to invest significant effort into getting them to work.
This isn't true for things that actually run on GNU/Linux. Installing the itch.io launcher is as easy as going to desktop mode, opening discover, navigating to the itch launcher, and clicking install.
I wonder if customer support and warranty is part of the calculation. If they sell open platform – they will have to provide support and potential warranty for it.
But I guess that most people are not interested in open platform, only tinkers like us are. And if they make it officially closed platform, they don't have to deal with our complaints, when something does not work, or more likely underperforms.
I mean, it's Sony. How long did it take them to get out of the Memory Stick business. There isn't an open system they haven't tried to compete with with their closed, locked-in alternatives.
Are you going to buy a PS6 if you build up a games collection on Steam?
Ha, that's how I got into the games industry and programming in general - I started coding little homebrew games for various competitions online when I was 14-15, then years later actually brought my PSP to a job interview with a games company and showed them what I made when I was a teenager, and I got the job.
Same for me! It was like a brick of programming in the face. If I recall correctly, I owe my gratitude to someone called "DarkAlex" on the "PSP-Hacks" website/forum for getting me interested.
My reason for starting with that scene was to play my "backed up" games but I remember screaming with joy when I got a C++ program onto the PSP which displayed some colours and bars. I could change them with the buttons and joystick.
I wonder how many of us learned how to program on the PSP. It's crazy to think how transformative this was for my life in the long run. It's also the same reason why I know Lua but went straight to C++ after that.
I wish I could bottle up the magic that was the PSP homebrew scene and give it to kids today. I'm guessing Minecraft mods are the closest modern version.
I wish I could say I actually learned to program on it haha. I mostly just flailed around and acted like I was programming back then. But it definitely started me down the path I'm on now.
What's the market for a (non-hacked) device like this, when the Switch and the Deck already exist? Surely the appeal of a handheld is that you can bring it with you on the train, airplane, etc. What am I missing?
In conjunction with GeForce Now, it's better than the Steam link in a few ways for my use case: better screen (1080p and slightly bigger), quite a bit lighter and easier to hold, no fan noise, no heat, much better graphics (since it's not running on a local APU, but a 4080 in the cloud). At the time, it was also significantly cheaper than the Steam Deck, although that's gotten cheaper over time too. There are also a bunch of similar $200 ish streaming Android handhelds if price is the primary consideration.
There are a few downsides, though: Its control inputs are way cheaper than that of the Steam Deck and it feels like crap and has no gyro input. It can't run local games (obviously) except cheap Android junk like Torchlight Infinite. It's co-developed with Tencent, which means China is probably spying on all your games (and your Google login).
But overall... it's fine for what it is? I mostly just play Path of Exile on it (and hopefully Diablo 4 soon) before falling asleep in bed.
I actually got a Steam Deck at one point, tried it for a couple days, and then sold it. It just wasn't as ergonomic as the GCloud for casual play. It was a pain waiting for the OS to update, games to patch and then slowly load, etc.
But you're wrong about the gyro input. I have it working with Yuzu -- I am very happy with it, and am running Steam on Bazzite (https://bazzite.gg) inside Proxmox.
As far as local games, if you're into retro gaming the G-Cloud is also powerful enough to play PSP games at 2x or 3x resolution (as well as anything else you can find emulators for up to and including the PS1 and N64 generation of consoles). I got a G-Cloud around when it first released and still use it quite a bit for both emulation and streaming, though I use Steam Link to play games running on my desktop instead of GeForce Now.
Supposedly, the market for it is people who want to play their PS5 but can't because somebody else in the household is occupying their TV. But that begs the question of why they wouldn't just go buy a bedroom TV instead and move the PS5 into the bedroom?
Other possible markets would be people trying to collect a complete set of PS5 accessories and people impulse buying it without thinking about whether it'd actually be useful. Of course the people buying it right now are mainly the scalpers and Sony likely produced very small quantities to ensure it'd sell out and get them positive press.
> But that begs the question of why they wouldn't just go buy a bedroom TV instead and move the PS5 into the bedroom?
I like the shows my wife watches but not always enough to want to dedicate my full attention to them. I'll often play the Switch while side-watching Downton Abbey type shows with her.
The Switch library has limited interest to me though so something like this provides more options.
Multiple vendors with multiple new models per year, different quality and price levels. Some come with Linux based systems others with android or even Windows. So you can choose between a selection of models for roughly 50-100USD, 150-300 or from a section that is even more expensive than a steamdeck but also provide more on some or all fronts for they bigger price tag.
There are some devices that are basically the same concept, just in new generation, but there are also many that are more unique. The space seems to require it, button layouts or screen ratio / resolution play a mayor role how well the emulation experience is, but there are so many different consoles over the years that they can't just do one thing fits all, especially if they want to keep it a handheld or sometimes pocketable. There was just a windows device released with clamshell dual screen design like the DS, but thicker to run basically everything on a modern AMD Windows setup.
The portal wasn't an unknown device in that bubble, bc some people use there emulation handhelds for streaming, as in in-home streaming or like the nvidia shield, cloud gaming streaming, often Xbox game pass these days.
There is a whole section of controllers that make a smartphone a portal/switch/steamdeck like device, by holding it in the middle and connect via usb c, lightning or Bluetooth. There is a good set of emulators for phone, snapdragon is quite good in emulating switch for example, but there is a also next to streaming, android native games that support controllers or apps that produce virtual touch inputs to map the controller.
There is also a scene that makes handhelds like the DSi, psp, vita, etc emulators who work quite well if you want to put in the effort to set it up.
I recommend retro game corps on yt for a start, he doesn't do quick bait or mind numbing flash cuts.
Depends on the nature of the jailbreak, some of them are unpatchable if they attack the system early enough in the boot flow. Those are much less common than they used to be though, the Switch is obviously a notable example of a permanent jailbreak but it's been some time since Sony or Microsoft made a blunder like that.
OTOH who knows how much of the Portal was actually designed by Sony, since it's running Android rather than SIEs usual FreeBSD it might have been outsourced or derived from some generic ODM design.
That wasn't so much a cat and mouse game, rather a bunch of hackers playing keep away with Sony's hat. The PSP's security was "defeated" literally from day one since the v1 firmware launched unsigned executables, then after that there was exploit after exploit, then the whole pandora battery thing and finally the host keys got leaked and it was game over.
I bought my PSP at launch and it spent the vast majority of it's lifespan with some kind of custom firmware installed.
It's stupid that in 2024, Sony is still like this :(
Meanwhile Microsoft has gone the other direction, opening up many Xbox games for crossplay/cross-save with Windows, partnering with GeForce Now to offer Game Pass games there (in addition to their own xCloud, which is total crap by comparison because it streams from actual Xbox consoles), and they don't care where you end up streaming it to (including web browsers).
Microsoft designed the Xbox in such a way to be very resistant to exploits. I'd have no doubt if there was a viable one in the wild they could patch, they would.
They also only agreed to put their games on GeForce Now to be able to buy Activision.
And Windows is still a Microsoft platform. They don't benefit as much from game sales but they do still benefit overall in keeping gamers there instead of migrating to PS5 or Linux.
In 2023 I looked into these options. The Game Pass games are not compatible with proton and they did not support streaming to Firefox running on Linux. It wasn't exactly an open ecosystem.
this will always be true of jailbreaks as they fundamentally break the security of the device. this means that it can be used for cool things like shown in the article but it could also be used maliciously by an attacker to completely take over the device which the manufacturer should definitely patch.
After the last update to my expensive DSLR broke third-party batteries for no reason beyond pettiness and greed, at this point I trust random hackers more than I trust Sony.
*the battery ruining was not mentioned in the changelog for the update.
It's a shame that such exploits are needed in the first place, when allowing developer mode to be toggled like a normal android device (ideally easier than on an xbox/quest) would be enough for most of these cool things.
It's also a strangely perverse incentive to stay on an exploitable firmware if you want to hack your own hardware.
these exploits are never closed for the security of their users, though the changelogs might often claim that’s the case.
It’s always about licensing costs for the manufacturer. Every game or application released for consoles (and phones alike) have to pay a licensing fee to the maintainers of that platform to publish on that platform. If you can jailbreak the device then you can publish software to that device without paying Sony, Apple or whoever else.
The security aspect is just a convenient side effect from locking people in. But if it was only security that these manufacturers were concerned about then they’d have found a way to allow people to tinker with their hardware without needing to crack any security mechanisms in the first place.
You can see this concern for licensing being a big thing in consoles as early as the Gameboy and MegaDrive (Genesis). And back then security wasn’t even a concern.
That might not be true since there is no need for Sony code < their means of control > if you can replace it with AOSP & the Android remote play client...
If running a moonlight client on one becomes possible, I might be actually interested in buying one, just for casual gaming at home. The Steam Deck looks great but is pretty expensive and a little overkill when I could just stream from my desktop to a less powerful device.
The GCloud and the Razer Edge are both significantly more expensive than the PS Portal if I recall correctly though.
The Abxylute does seem similar in price, although I'm guessing the PS Portal likely has better controls (being essentially a Dualsense split in half) and maybe a better screen.
Also yeah, Steam Link would work too but Moonlight/Sunshine generally seems to work better.
Nowadays there are so many great handheld devices specifically optimized for emulation, like the ones from Anbernic, that hacking doesn't seem worth it anymore. There are also hardware button add-ons that convert Android phones or tablets into emulation handhelds, without any hacking.
A common problem with those devices seems to actually be that they work too well, which leads to choice paralysis. If you can play anything, any game ever up to Dreamcast or so, it's hard not to lose interest in any one game quickly.
I still have my original PSP with its discs, and it works like a charm. The build quality is very impressive. I can use it as a plug-in controller for my PC.
Readit News
There are no Portal games to worry about protecting. What's the percentage in locking it down?
As long as retro sales exceed the cost to lock the device down you will see stuff like this. I recall one time paying for FF7 which I played on PS3/PSP. That game alone probably makes it worth it.
Even the Steam Deck as the most open commercial console on the market is pretty clever in that it doesn’t stop you from using competing software stores, but you still need to invest significant effort into getting them to work. Getting my free copy of Control on the Epic Games Store to work on the console was something that took me a significant amount of time. I could imagine a less technical person being completely unable to do it, but if you owned the game on Steam you just click a button and play.
In my opinion, if Sony wasn’t being supremely lazy they would have made the Portal with AMD x86 hardware similar to the Steam Deck and designed it to natively play your PS5/PS4 library on the go instead of making it a streaming-only device.
This is far more related to their lack of Linux support, and forcing launcher usage via Steam for some games (EA, Ubisoft) than Valve making it difficult on purpose. Nothing stopping you from using Desktop Mode to do whatever you want on the device otherwise.
This isn't true for things that actually run on GNU/Linux. Installing the itch.io launcher is as easy as going to desktop mode, opening discover, navigating to the itch launcher, and clicking install.
But I guess that most people are not interested in open platform, only tinkers like us are. And if they make it officially closed platform, they don't have to deal with our complaints, when something does not work, or more likely underperforms.
Are you going to buy a PS6 if you build up a games collection on Steam?
My reason for starting with that scene was to play my "backed up" games but I remember screaming with joy when I got a C++ program onto the PSP which displayed some colours and bars. I could change them with the buttons and joystick.
I wish I could bottle up the magic that was the PSP homebrew scene and give it to kids today. I'm guessing Minecraft mods are the closest modern version.
I was just playing around with the Xbox Dev Mode this weekend and trying out different emulators.
In conjunction with GeForce Now, it's better than the Steam link in a few ways for my use case: better screen (1080p and slightly bigger), quite a bit lighter and easier to hold, no fan noise, no heat, much better graphics (since it's not running on a local APU, but a 4080 in the cloud). At the time, it was also significantly cheaper than the Steam Deck, although that's gotten cheaper over time too. There are also a bunch of similar $200 ish streaming Android handhelds if price is the primary consideration.
There are a few downsides, though: Its control inputs are way cheaper than that of the Steam Deck and it feels like crap and has no gyro input. It can't run local games (obviously) except cheap Android junk like Torchlight Infinite. It's co-developed with Tencent, which means China is probably spying on all your games (and your Google login).
But overall... it's fine for what it is? I mostly just play Path of Exile on it (and hopefully Diablo 4 soon) before falling asleep in bed.
I actually got a Steam Deck at one point, tried it for a couple days, and then sold it. It just wasn't as ergonomic as the GCloud for casual play. It was a pain waiting for the OS to update, games to patch and then slowly load, etc.
But you're wrong about the gyro input. I have it working with Yuzu -- I am very happy with it, and am running Steam on Bazzite (https://bazzite.gg) inside Proxmox.
In home, a great use is to play when the TV the PS5 is hooked up to is in use. You can play and someone else can watch a movie.
Also the Switch and Deck don’t play PS5 games you already own. And both are more expensive.
It’s 100% a companion device. If you owned a deck you could just run the PS remote app on it too.
Other possible markets would be people trying to collect a complete set of PS5 accessories and people impulse buying it without thinking about whether it'd actually be useful. Of course the people buying it right now are mainly the scalpers and Sony likely produced very small quantities to ensure it'd sell out and get them positive press.
I like the shows my wife watches but not always enough to want to dedicate my full attention to them. I'll often play the Switch while side-watching Downton Abbey type shows with her.
The Switch library has limited interest to me though so something like this provides more options.
Multiple vendors with multiple new models per year, different quality and price levels. Some come with Linux based systems others with android or even Windows. So you can choose between a selection of models for roughly 50-100USD, 150-300 or from a section that is even more expensive than a steamdeck but also provide more on some or all fronts for they bigger price tag.
There are some devices that are basically the same concept, just in new generation, but there are also many that are more unique. The space seems to require it, button layouts or screen ratio / resolution play a mayor role how well the emulation experience is, but there are so many different consoles over the years that they can't just do one thing fits all, especially if they want to keep it a handheld or sometimes pocketable. There was just a windows device released with clamshell dual screen design like the DS, but thicker to run basically everything on a modern AMD Windows setup.
The portal wasn't an unknown device in that bubble, bc some people use there emulation handhelds for streaming, as in in-home streaming or like the nvidia shield, cloud gaming streaming, often Xbox game pass these days.
There is a whole section of controllers that make a smartphone a portal/switch/steamdeck like device, by holding it in the middle and connect via usb c, lightning or Bluetooth. There is a good set of emulators for phone, snapdragon is quite good in emulating switch for example, but there is a also next to streaming, android native games that support controllers or apps that produce virtual touch inputs to map the controller.
There is also a scene that makes handhelds like the DSi, psp, vita, etc emulators who work quite well if you want to put in the effort to set it up.
I recommend retro game corps on yt for a start, he doesn't do quick bait or mind numbing flash cuts.
there's also the neo which will come out https://neo.manjaro.org/
all the same benefits and without having to play this cat and mouse game with a company who just wants to turn you into a stream of income.
OTOH who knows how much of the Portal was actually designed by Sony, since it's running Android rather than SIEs usual FreeBSD it might have been outsourced or derived from some generic ODM design.
I bought my PSP at launch and it spent the vast majority of it's lifespan with some kind of custom firmware installed.
Meanwhile Microsoft has gone the other direction, opening up many Xbox games for crossplay/cross-save with Windows, partnering with GeForce Now to offer Game Pass games there (in addition to their own xCloud, which is total crap by comparison because it streams from actual Xbox consoles), and they don't care where you end up streaming it to (including web browsers).
They also only agreed to put their games on GeForce Now to be able to buy Activision.
And Windows is still a Microsoft platform. They don't benefit as much from game sales but they do still benefit overall in keeping gamers there instead of migrating to PS5 or Linux.
*the battery ruining was not mentioned in the changelog for the update.
It's also a strangely perverse incentive to stay on an exploitable firmware if you want to hack your own hardware.
It’s always about licensing costs for the manufacturer. Every game or application released for consoles (and phones alike) have to pay a licensing fee to the maintainers of that platform to publish on that platform. If you can jailbreak the device then you can publish software to that device without paying Sony, Apple or whoever else.
The security aspect is just a convenient side effect from locking people in. But if it was only security that these manufacturers were concerned about then they’d have found a way to allow people to tinker with their hardware without needing to crack any security mechanisms in the first place.
You can see this concern for licensing being a big thing in consoles as early as the Gameboy and MegaDrive (Genesis). And back then security wasn’t even a concern.
Not sure if you even need Moonlight; wouldn't Steam Link work too?
Personally I use a GCloud and stream from GeForce Now, and that works great.
Also yeah, Steam Link would work too but Moonlight/Sunshine generally seems to work better.
I'll recommend Retro Game Corps as a great gateway into this scene: https://www.youtube.com/c/retrogamecorps
If you just want a huge list of what's available: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1irg60f9qsZOkhp0cwOU7...
I'll plug my own channel as well as I own many of these devices: https://www.youtube.com/@forthenext
A common problem with those devices seems to actually be that they work too well, which leads to choice paralysis. If you can play anything, any game ever up to Dreamcast or so, it's hard not to lose interest in any one game quickly.