> At this point, many of you might be thinking: Zan, you sneaky weasel. Haven't you just cherry-picked your redditors and scientific publications to fit your narrative?
Adressing it is good, but ultimately it does not really act as a rebuttal, this is a biased collection of anecdotes from a subreddit of people drinking decaf.
That being said, if you do feel like your anxiety is always high and that you have a trouble sleeping, it's probably worth stopping and assessing, a bit like how people with IBS will just periodically remove things from their diet to see its impact.
What we really know for sure is this – sleep is good, anxiety is bad.
So, if you aren't getting good sleep, find ways to fix it.
And if you are anxious all the time, find ways to fix it.
By one tradition that's thousands of years old – Yoga+Pranayama+Meditation (linking physical/mental_movement+breadth) and fasting + eating moderately (eat only if you are hungry and eat enough to quench hunger, and eat 'satvik' food) and cultivating positive thought patterns (practicing gratitude, humility, curiosity) is also known to solve for sleep and anxiety.
Coming to coffee, all coffee is not made the same way and everyone don't drink the same quantity per day either. And it doesn't have the same impact on everyone's body. So, it is best to avoid jumping to broad generalized conclusions based on a few anecdotal stories.
But, it is good for people to share their experiences and for others to consider them.
It is hard to think of a major religious tradition that does not have most of these elements (fasting, moderation, practicing positive thought patterns) within it. The posture and movement bit is specific to that tradition - but even there I think things like "work and prayer" are not that different.
> Coming to coffee, all coffee is not made the same way and everyone don't drink the same quantity per day either. And it doesn't have the same impact on everyone's body.
Very much my reaction. Would having or not having a cup of coffee in the morning make a big difference to me? Hard to tell.
Also, if you have a lot of coffee coming of it suddenly can be a problem because caffeine is an anti-depressant. A coffee habit might be self-medication.
I find the tone of the article a bit annoying. It reminds me of people on LinkedIn going on about how much better they feel since they gave up alcohol.
> I find the tone of the article a bit annoying. It reminds me of people on LinkedIn going on about how much better they feel since they gave up alcohol.
I'm curious about this. I notice this sentiment on any topic where someone quit somebody else's drug of choice.
Someone says they improved their life by dropping weed, the responses will be full of people telling you that alcohol is legal poison (nevermind that nobody was talking about alcohol) and weed is a miracle drug, and they are perfectly high functioning thank you very much.
Someone says they improved their life by dropping booze, everyone has to tell them how nobody lives forever, and didn't you see that study that says moderate drinking is healthy?
And so on for all the other substances people consume.
Its like a lot of people secretly feel like they have to justify their own usage whenever someone does something differently, as if they feel attacked for some reason. But you don't have to. You can put whatever you want in your body for whatever reason you choose. And if other people choose not to (and maybe even choose to write about it), why should that be a bother to you?
> And it doesn't have the same impact on everyone's body.
I'm one of those that seem able to drink lots of coffee even at 6 or 8pm and still fall fast asleep.
I also don't feel any different during the day whether I drink it or not.
Though I usually still drink it, for various reasons like taste, warmth and social aspects.
People always want to find simple universal dietary rules.
Yeah but there are some great and true simple universal dietary/wellness rules. For instance, this one: Never let a doctor put you on medication for anxiety when you have not yet tried totally quitting caffeine for a couple months.
Both of those studies on foods consider only people who already have Non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. One of them is about specifically sugary beverages, not whole fruit. Neither show “Sattvic food is not good for your health”.
Not sure why the world finds this so hard to understand, but I think we have the same issue with politics. Everything seems to suffer from binaryism. everything is either good or bad, right or wrong, healthy or unhealthy, us or them...
the world and life in general is full of shades of gray. its not 1's and 0's.
I think any reasonable interpretation of the comment you’re replying to is not “sleep is always good” but rather “sleep is good, on the whole”, which is absolutely true.
Both studies you linked indicate correlation not causation
Do others not get a lot of headaches on caffeine? Yeah there's ones that come with going off caffeine, but the amount of headaches days I have a month plummets once off of the stuff.
That's either dehydration or withdrawal. Caffeine is a diuretic.
If you consume roughly the same amount of caffeine at the same time each day, and go out of your way to drink more water, caffeine use won't cause headaches.
I tried this! I went completely caffeine free for over a year and was... fine? But way more tired all the time, and generally having trouble focusing on tasks. In my particular case, I suspect caffeine is a self administered coping mechanism for mild ADHD tendencies, and without that I became much more sensitive to the food I was eating and my changing energy levels throughout the day.
Eventually I realized I had stopped coping with caffeine and, instead, started coping with *sugar*, and gained 20 lbs in the process.
I'm back on caffeine again, but the rules are: one (1) cup in the morning, however I like it. Then water for every other beverage all day long. That seems to have done the trick, and now I again sleep through the night and can more easily remain focused throughout the day.
The point is, experiment, yes! But it's your body and your mind. Take notes and figure out what works best in your case. Everyone is a little different.
Yeah, I have the same feeling about ADHD. I would like to go decaf, I really do. Like higher blood pressure is already enough reason for me for quitting it. But when I don't drink caffeine, I cannot focus on anything anymore. Now I haven't been tested for ADHD so I don't have access to real ADHD meds. But those come with side effects as well, so I might just stay with caffeine.
I _had_ to quit caffeine last fall, my blood pressure was so high I could literally feel and hear it. (160/95-ish)
Quitting coffee and energy drinks did it for a while, but my sleep issues continued. I had to switch to caffeine free cola too and then my sleep started improving.
Now my BP has normalised around 125/80...
...But it seems I have been suppressing ADD symptoms with my caffeine intake for years and my brain is going 1000km/h and bouncing around. I sleep well and I'm not tired - but I can't focus for shit.
Did you quit long enough that you got through the withdrawal?
Caffeine withdrawal is pretty bad, and you'll probably have trouble thinking. The first time I quit cold turkey, I felt dumb. Couldn't think clearly or focus until I got past it.
I second the “experimenting” thing. I would recommend going caffeine free for a couple weeks every once in a while, just to kind of… keep track of the addiction. I’ll quit coffee occasionally, historically usually for a tolerance break if it’s getting a bit too much, or to just kind of “reset” my brain chemistry.
I ultimately found that reducing was a good idea, but I personally like coffee a lot and feel it adds something for me. I also have adhd though, so I’m probably playing with a slightly different deck on the “how stimulants interact with the brain” front.
I have found that having controls and limits around caffeine intake is a pretty good practice. I found that to reliably sleep well, I need to never drink caffeine after noon. And reducing my intake a bit helps as well. But from there, I haven’t seen much further benefit from quitting entirely.
i live with (more than mild) ADHD and this is something i only just realized about myself. i used to use medication, but keeping up with the schedules and appointments needed to maintain steady access to the medicine is _exactly_ the sort of thing i struggle with; these days i haven't been medicated for over ten years. i use caffeine (coffe & energy drinks), nicotine (vaping), and sugar (jelly beans) to be a functional member of society. i honestly didn't realize i was self-medicating until a doctor pointed it out to me a year ago.
i'm pretty certain my current habits are shortening my lifespan and that my life would be happier (and more productive) with medicine. at the same time, i have a partner who does use medicine and i watch the hurdles they face (with insurance, with pharmacy shortages, juggling schedules with multiple doctors, having withdrawal when availability doesn't line up) and i feel like i wouldn't stand a chance of juggling all of that.
Another option for self medication is exercise. I've been an endurance exercise addict off and on for my whole life, it can take the place of many of your self medications, or if you can't give those up, it can at least nullify the sugar you are taking in by burning it off.
My fix was to quit the job where I felt like I had to drink coffee to survive the drudgery. Now I work from home and can jus be tired if I'm tired. It's great.
To add another anecdote: I drink minimum one small pot of coffee a day (a pour-over I make with my wife, 30g/450g beans/water), plus a moka pot or two in the afternoon, or a 15g pour-over. And 1-3 espresso shots if I go into the office. I consider the coffee experience positively euphoric. Almost spiritual. Certainly ritual. I would never give up the time of sitting with my wife for half an hour to an hour each morning (especially in this season by the fire).
I have never had anything like anxiety, before nor after coffee. I suspect that for many people's cases with such things, other dietary changes (including unnoticed enormous amounts of sugar with the coffee) may be the real culprit. But it's so hard to say with individuals.
What’s funny to me is the degree to which i perceive people’s denial that caffeine and coffee get you incredibly high.
I’m not sure if this is what you exactly meant by euphoric, but I sometimes experience similar things, and I find it funny that “don’t talk to me until I’ve had my cup of coffee” is a negatively phrased statement of “I’m gonna get high on caffeine then I’ll enjoy this conversation more”- as if society wants to deny the psychotropic effects of drinking this drink.
That's not an accurate characterization. Don't talk to me until I've had my coffee is as much a statement about morning low body temperature/thirst and morning ritual as it is about caffeine addiction. There's a reason that warm showers in the morning wake you up and invigorate you. Plus coffee is delicious.
For people with high daily intake it’s not so much that they want to get “high” on coffee to enjoy the conversation, as it is that their brain is in acute caffeine withdrawal and they will feel so shitty with coffee that they won’t be able to participate in conversation very well.
For what it's worth, my wife and I also sit and drink coffee in the morning together (although not as a consistent daily ritual). Ours is just decaf. (good) Decaf can taste very good. I've certainly had decaf that was better than most caffeinated coffee I've had. But it's harder to find serious attempts at decaf roasts, sadly.
I can also say that after quitting caffeine (8-9 months ago) my sleep improved dramatically for about 5 months. Then I started getting sloppy and mixed in light-caff (like chocolate and decaffeinated teas/coffees) and other factors in my life also kicked in and sleep got worse again. Unfortunately I don't have the drastic caffeine cut to fall back on now.
For me, the change 9 months ago was entirely one change - unsweetened caffeinated drinks to unsweetened purely non-caffeine drinks (like "dandy blend" and rooibos).
Anxiety didn't decrease noticeably when I made the change, but sleep improved a lot. Now if I drink caffeinated teas (3 times in the past 2 months) or eat a lot of chocolate I definitely feel the anxiety and just general discomfort. So there's a link of some sort. It feels uncomfortable now...
Decaf can taste ok but even really good decaf pales in comparison to caf, unfortunately. The process of getting the caffeine out is just inherently harmful to the flavor. I think moderation is the key for most people. Drink at most a moderate amount of coffee once in the morning; don't drink it throughout the day.
> Decaf can taste very good. I've certainly had decaf that was better than most caffeinated coffee I've had. But it's harder to find serious attempts at decaf roasts, sadly.
> And 1-3 espresso shots if I go into the office. I consider the coffee experience positively euphoric. Almost spiritual.
As someone who doesn’t consume caffeine, this sounds a lot like addiction. You can keep the ritual and ditch the caffeine by drinking decaf if you want.
As someone who is addicted to caffeine, hell yes it is an addiction.
A long time ago, I cut out the addictions that were causing negative effects for me (mainly weed and tobacco). I kept caffeine around since I can get wired and still do my job, and it's not overtly unhealthy.
An addiction isn't something inherently bad. Everyone's addicted to something or another. But how many addictions synergize with one's performance at work?
This is why we can’t have nice things (or bathroom stalls that go all the way down to the floor). People be shooting up drugs everywhere, even at work.
2 coffees a day for a few days turns into a panic attack.
I've run the experiment many many times (easy with daily habits and a love for coffee). I definitely have pre-existing anxiety, but the effect of caffeine on me is clear as day.
Decaf and I'm fine.
I can tell when I'm mistakenly given regular coffee (frequently with baristas) or when a particular bean isn't that decaffeinated.
I also enjoyed the ritual of coffee but stopped about a year ago due to sleep issues and anxiety.
As far as anxiety goes, I found it was a question of baseline. I'm normally even-keeled to a fault. But at that time, I was anxious (due to life circumstances) and coffee pushed me over the edge.
Sleep definitely improved and for that reason I don't think I'll ever restart caffeinated coffee. I may start looking around for good decaf beans at some point (if they exist).
> I have never had anything like anxiety, before nor after coffee. I suspect that for many people's cases with such things, other dietary changes (including unnoticed enormous amounts of sugar with the coffee) may be the real culprit. But it's so hard to say with individuals.
AIUI there's a well established genetic component to caffeine sensitivity and metabolism.
Personally I find dissolving in a spoonful of lions mane mushroom powder takes the edge off and also seems to mitigate withdrawal symptoms should I choose to take a break for more than a day.
Simon, you also live one of the most idyllic, picturesque lives possible. If I lived in rural NH with my wife and kids, I too would love the coffee ritual.
As a person with willpower/focus issues, I've found caffeine to be a godsend in college. I've started using so much I've switched to caffeine pills to save money.
At first I was taking 200mg in the morning to wake up, 100mg every couple of hours to get me through the lectures, and another 200mg at home to study.
It went well, and I became one of the best students in my class, but my anxiety went over the roof. I became irritable, angry, unpleasant, started shouting at my girlfriend over small meaningless issues, and eventally alienated my whole friend circle. My tolerance also went up - at some point I was taking 1000-1500mg of caffeine a day.
I remember one morning I couldn't get up, so I took 200mg pill and lied back to bed, then woke up again and couldn't get up, so I took 200mg more, and then 200mg more, and so on... I finally woke up after 1000mg. In public transit, I felt sick and my heart was pounding so much I thought I would get a heart attack. I couldn't eat the whole day and I felt sick like never before in my life.
After that I never went back on the caffeine pills again. I still drink coffee because I find it hard to function without it, and I'm trying to quit. But for some tasks, caffeine is simply too powerful to go without. Working out without caffeine feels just lame.
Anyways, thanks for reading my blogpost in the HN comments. Hopefully someone finds this anegdote entertaining.
I think the benefit of coffee over pills is that you actually need to get/make it, then drink it, which acts as a natural limit to intake (most people will feel sick after drinking several coffees)
You're not going to suggest that different people have different baseline biochemistry and would benefit from different things in different ways? No! That's not allowed! All health advice must fit all people, and people who don't fit the health advice shouldn't be allowed to complain about it.
/sarcasm, but I've seen serious versions of this argument
I keep seeing versions of the argument that we’re all unique snowflakes and so all science is bad and all advice is untrustworthy bs. Usually the argument feels more like a variation on ‘you’re not the boss of me’ than a serious discussion of the science. This feels especially common to me when discussing diets; people seem to get pretty defensive whenever some advice or outcome has any way of being interpreted as that person potentially having less than perfect behavior.
I don’t know what ‘people have different baseline biochemistry’ really means. Approximately zero humans survive on sulphur and chlorine in place of nitrogen and oxygen. This argument tends to overlook the fact that people are mostly similar, and there’s enough of us that we have decent data on how similar we are. Humans are all approximately the same construction, and have approximately the same reactions to most things. It’s true there’s tons of minor variability for some things, but no serious science or health advice that will fail to mention or acknowledge that variability. My advice (which may or may not work for you) is to ignore people who say health advice must fit all people… and also ignore people who say that no advice will work for them, or even that advice that works for most can’t work for them without trying it first.
I feel like a good default assumption is that something that works for the average person will probably work for me too, so try it first, and then look for alternatives if/when I find out it’s not working. This is still a good default assumption even when accounting for the ‘flaw of averages’ (cf. the Air Force story about cockpit design) - most of us will fit the the average for most things, even while at the same time most of us will be outliers for some things.
It's probably best to treat the articles like these (and the dietary advice in general) as an invitation to experiment and see how it works for your particular case, not as a definitive statement that "X is good for everyone always, Y is bad for everyone always"
If it helps you it's great. I was drinking tons of coffee daily from my teenage years to my mid-20s. I didn't feel any ill effects from it. Now in my early 30s, it causes anxiety. I don't know how or why, but it's scary how caffeine and a little bit of tiredness turns me into a shell of a man these days. Having a safe stimulant to kick you out of inactivity is a great help so I'd say take advantage of it.
Since we're exchanging anecdotal evidence, I also feel better with coffee. It lets me control how energized I am. Helped me avoid burnout and generally makes me feel a bit better no matter how much I take.
I had a very similar experience as this author. All throughout high school and college, I was prescribed Adderall. After graduation, I got a job, and realized Adderall wasn't good for me long term, so I switched to coffee. This alone helped with my anxiety, ability to sleep, and social interactions.
After a while, I started to wonder if coffee is good for me also. So I quit cold turkey for a few weeks as an experiment. I couldn't believe the effect it had. I am angry at myself that I didn't just do this earlier. I sleep fine all night now, I don't have to pee as often, my anxiety is basically gone, I feel better about life in general, my brain fog disappeared, and I no longer have "good days and bad days" mentally, just good days.
There is no more powerful drug or therapy in the world than:
How much did you drink? I found the same effect when I didn't know how to use coffee and drank at any hour, multiple times a day, from the office's coffee machine, and couldn't make it at home. Obvious result: bad sleep, anxiety, and a crash every weekend. They all got better after I quit, also obviously.
Then I looked into it more, bought my own press and grinder, started taking one cup a morning with the dosage I want, occasionally a small extra but nothing after 2PM. The effect is pretty nice. On average, I feel a bit better with it than without.
I started out drinking a lot, usually 2 cups per day, one at breakfast and lunch. But eventually I just weaned myself down to one cup at breakfast for a few years, and I was still having trouble sleeping.
I feel like caffeine is a *results may vary topic, every time it is discussed many people have wildly different experiences.
I quit Coffee one month each year (Ramadan while fasting). It has the effect of resetting my tolerance to caffeine. The first coffee after Ramandan feels more like Cocaine than Caffeine, almost like a superpower.
However, I have to say, I don't see any difference in sleep quality with or without coffee. I just make sure only to drink coffee in the morning.
I do exactly that. Usually I quit one week before Ramadan. When quitting, it's common to get headaches. When quitting before Ramadan, you can alleviate it with a bit of Aspirin.
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Adressing it is good, but ultimately it does not really act as a rebuttal, this is a biased collection of anecdotes from a subreddit of people drinking decaf.
That being said, if you do feel like your anxiety is always high and that you have a trouble sleeping, it's probably worth stopping and assessing, a bit like how people with IBS will just periodically remove things from their diet to see its impact.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc
By one tradition that's thousands of years old – Yoga+Pranayama+Meditation (linking physical/mental_movement+breadth) and fasting + eating moderately (eat only if you are hungry and eat enough to quench hunger, and eat 'satvik' food) and cultivating positive thought patterns (practicing gratitude, humility, curiosity) is also known to solve for sleep and anxiety.
Coming to coffee, all coffee is not made the same way and everyone don't drink the same quantity per day either. And it doesn't have the same impact on everyone's body. So, it is best to avoid jumping to broad generalized conclusions based on a few anecdotal stories.
But, it is good for people to share their experiences and for others to consider them.
It is hard to think of a major religious tradition that does not have most of these elements (fasting, moderation, practicing positive thought patterns) within it. The posture and movement bit is specific to that tradition - but even there I think things like "work and prayer" are not that different.
> Coming to coffee, all coffee is not made the same way and everyone don't drink the same quantity per day either. And it doesn't have the same impact on everyone's body.
Very much my reaction. Would having or not having a cup of coffee in the morning make a big difference to me? Hard to tell.
Also, if you have a lot of coffee coming of it suddenly can be a problem because caffeine is an anti-depressant. A coffee habit might be self-medication.
I find the tone of the article a bit annoying. It reminds me of people on LinkedIn going on about how much better they feel since they gave up alcohol.
I'm curious about this. I notice this sentiment on any topic where someone quit somebody else's drug of choice.
Someone says they improved their life by dropping weed, the responses will be full of people telling you that alcohol is legal poison (nevermind that nobody was talking about alcohol) and weed is a miracle drug, and they are perfectly high functioning thank you very much.
Someone says they improved their life by dropping booze, everyone has to tell them how nobody lives forever, and didn't you see that study that says moderate drinking is healthy?
And so on for all the other substances people consume.
Its like a lot of people secretly feel like they have to justify their own usage whenever someone does something differently, as if they feel attacked for some reason. But you don't have to. You can put whatever you want in your body for whatever reason you choose. And if other people choose not to (and maybe even choose to write about it), why should that be a bother to you?
I'm one of those that seem able to drink lots of coffee even at 6 or 8pm and still fall fast asleep.
I also don't feel any different during the day whether I drink it or not. Though I usually still drink it, for various reasons like taste, warmth and social aspects.
People always want to find simple universal dietary rules.
A yoga instructor friend once told me "You have a sluggish metabolism". I cannot deny it.
Sleep is not all good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersomnia
Anxiety is not all bad: https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/43757
Sattvic food is not good for your health: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37085478/ and https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35710164/
Not sure why the world finds this so hard to understand, but I think we have the same issue with politics. Everything seems to suffer from binaryism. everything is either good or bad, right or wrong, healthy or unhealthy, us or them...
the world and life in general is full of shades of gray. its not 1's and 0's.
Both studies you linked indicate correlation not causation
Dead Comment
If you consume roughly the same amount of caffeine at the same time each day, and go out of your way to drink more water, caffeine use won't cause headaches.
Eventually I realized I had stopped coping with caffeine and, instead, started coping with *sugar*, and gained 20 lbs in the process.
I'm back on caffeine again, but the rules are: one (1) cup in the morning, however I like it. Then water for every other beverage all day long. That seems to have done the trick, and now I again sleep through the night and can more easily remain focused throughout the day.
The point is, experiment, yes! But it's your body and your mind. Take notes and figure out what works best in your case. Everyone is a little different.
Quitting coffee and energy drinks did it for a while, but my sleep issues continued. I had to switch to caffeine free cola too and then my sleep started improving.
Now my BP has normalised around 125/80...
...But it seems I have been suppressing ADD symptoms with my caffeine intake for years and my brain is going 1000km/h and bouncing around. I sleep well and I'm not tired - but I can't focus for shit.
Caffeine withdrawal is pretty bad, and you'll probably have trouble thinking. The first time I quit cold turkey, I felt dumb. Couldn't think clearly or focus until I got past it.
I ultimately found that reducing was a good idea, but I personally like coffee a lot and feel it adds something for me. I also have adhd though, so I’m probably playing with a slightly different deck on the “how stimulants interact with the brain” front.
I have found that having controls and limits around caffeine intake is a pretty good practice. I found that to reliably sleep well, I need to never drink caffeine after noon. And reducing my intake a bit helps as well. But from there, I haven’t seen much further benefit from quitting entirely.
i'm pretty certain my current habits are shortening my lifespan and that my life would be happier (and more productive) with medicine. at the same time, i have a partner who does use medicine and i watch the hurdles they face (with insurance, with pharmacy shortages, juggling schedules with multiple doctors, having withdrawal when availability doesn't line up) and i feel like i wouldn't stand a chance of juggling all of that.
I have never had anything like anxiety, before nor after coffee. I suspect that for many people's cases with such things, other dietary changes (including unnoticed enormous amounts of sugar with the coffee) may be the real culprit. But it's so hard to say with individuals.
I’m not sure if this is what you exactly meant by euphoric, but I sometimes experience similar things, and I find it funny that “don’t talk to me until I’ve had my cup of coffee” is a negatively phrased statement of “I’m gonna get high on caffeine then I’ll enjoy this conversation more”- as if society wants to deny the psychotropic effects of drinking this drink.
I can also say that after quitting caffeine (8-9 months ago) my sleep improved dramatically for about 5 months. Then I started getting sloppy and mixed in light-caff (like chocolate and decaffeinated teas/coffees) and other factors in my life also kicked in and sleep got worse again. Unfortunately I don't have the drastic caffeine cut to fall back on now.
For me, the change 9 months ago was entirely one change - unsweetened caffeinated drinks to unsweetened purely non-caffeine drinks (like "dandy blend" and rooibos).
Anxiety didn't decrease noticeably when I made the change, but sleep improved a lot. Now if I drink caffeinated teas (3 times in the past 2 months) or eat a lot of chocolate I definitely feel the anxiety and just general discomfort. So there's a link of some sort. It feels uncomfortable now...
James Hoffmann made a great video about this recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYTSdlOdkn0
As someone who doesn’t consume caffeine, this sounds a lot like addiction. You can keep the ritual and ditch the caffeine by drinking decaf if you want.
A long time ago, I cut out the addictions that were causing negative effects for me (mainly weed and tobacco). I kept caffeine around since I can get wired and still do my job, and it's not overtly unhealthy.
An addiction isn't something inherently bad. Everyone's addicted to something or another. But how many addictions synergize with one's performance at work?
I don’t get this sentiment.
One coffee: noticeable anxiety
2 coffees a day for a few days turns into a panic attack.
I've run the experiment many many times (easy with daily habits and a love for coffee). I definitely have pre-existing anxiety, but the effect of caffeine on me is clear as day.
Decaf and I'm fine.
I can tell when I'm mistakenly given regular coffee (frequently with baristas) or when a particular bean isn't that decaffeinated.
As far as anxiety goes, I found it was a question of baseline. I'm normally even-keeled to a fault. But at that time, I was anxious (due to life circumstances) and coffee pushed me over the edge.
Sleep definitely improved and for that reason I don't think I'll ever restart caffeinated coffee. I may start looking around for good decaf beans at some point (if they exist).
AIUI there's a well established genetic component to caffeine sensitivity and metabolism.
Personally I find dissolving in a spoonful of lions mane mushroom powder takes the edge off and also seems to mitigate withdrawal symptoms should I choose to take a break for more than a day.
Energy drinks do though, and they make me jittery and sweaty, which coffee doesn't. Sugar or sugar-free doesn't seem to make a difference.
My hypothesis is that it's all the niacin they put in energy drinks. 250% of RDI in a 500ml can is typical, sometimes even more than that.
It went well, and I became one of the best students in my class, but my anxiety went over the roof. I became irritable, angry, unpleasant, started shouting at my girlfriend over small meaningless issues, and eventally alienated my whole friend circle. My tolerance also went up - at some point I was taking 1000-1500mg of caffeine a day.
I remember one morning I couldn't get up, so I took 200mg pill and lied back to bed, then woke up again and couldn't get up, so I took 200mg more, and then 200mg more, and so on... I finally woke up after 1000mg. In public transit, I felt sick and my heart was pounding so much I thought I would get a heart attack. I couldn't eat the whole day and I felt sick like never before in my life.
After that I never went back on the caffeine pills again. I still drink coffee because I find it hard to function without it, and I'm trying to quit. But for some tasks, caffeine is simply too powerful to go without. Working out without caffeine feels just lame.
Anyways, thanks for reading my blogpost in the HN comments. Hopefully someone finds this anegdote entertaining.
I wonder if the difference in experience could come down to the specific circumstances and nature of the issues that someone faces?
/sarcasm, but I've seen serious versions of this argument
I don’t know what ‘people have different baseline biochemistry’ really means. Approximately zero humans survive on sulphur and chlorine in place of nitrogen and oxygen. This argument tends to overlook the fact that people are mostly similar, and there’s enough of us that we have decent data on how similar we are. Humans are all approximately the same construction, and have approximately the same reactions to most things. It’s true there’s tons of minor variability for some things, but no serious science or health advice that will fail to mention or acknowledge that variability. My advice (which may or may not work for you) is to ignore people who say health advice must fit all people… and also ignore people who say that no advice will work for them, or even that advice that works for most can’t work for them without trying it first.
I feel like a good default assumption is that something that works for the average person will probably work for me too, so try it first, and then look for alternatives if/when I find out it’s not working. This is still a good default assumption even when accounting for the ‘flaw of averages’ (cf. the Air Force story about cockpit design) - most of us will fit the the average for most things, even while at the same time most of us will be outliers for some things.
After a while, I started to wonder if coffee is good for me also. So I quit cold turkey for a few weeks as an experiment. I couldn't believe the effect it had. I am angry at myself that I didn't just do this earlier. I sleep fine all night now, I don't have to pee as often, my anxiety is basically gone, I feel better about life in general, my brain fog disappeared, and I no longer have "good days and bad days" mentally, just good days.
There is no more powerful drug or therapy in the world than:
1) Exercising regularly.
2) Eating healthy.
3) Quitting the stimulants.
Then I looked into it more, bought my own press and grinder, started taking one cup a morning with the dosage I want, occasionally a small extra but nothing after 2PM. The effect is pretty nice. On average, I feel a bit better with it than without.
I feel like caffeine is a *results may vary topic, every time it is discussed many people have wildly different experiences.
When I didn't the headaches were terrible in the first few days of fasting.