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Posted by u/telecomsteve 2 years ago
I'm an engineer that needs to sell my services. Any good books on sales?
I recently left my role as a lead devops engineer and would like to work for myself under a devops service contract model (multiple clients, each part-time). Unfortunately, I know nothing about sales or the mechanics of creating and following up on leads. Are there any good books that can explain the tools and workflows of someone who works in sales? Thanks in advance.
poulsbohemian · 2 years ago
Sounds a lot like where I was about twenty years ago, and today I sell stuff for a living... a few thoughts I wish someone had given me...

1) Productize yourself. That is, have several very clear services you offer at established rates. Brand yourself around a very clear idea that has people saying "hey, call the <service> guy" when they need <service>.

2) A lot of us in tech are shy and introverted by nature, which on the surface appears in direct opposition to the skills needed to sell. What I'm telling you is that you can absolutely learn how to be the life of the party - it just takes work and courage, just like any other skill.

3) Sharp branding can make you stand out. Good quality cards, website, etc. Speak well, write well. When you ask someone for a meeting, be very clear in communicating why it is a good use of their time. Figure out early if you are talking to the person with the authority to buy.

4) Small companies will often run you through the wringer of interviews etc, only to not actually have much money. Well-established companies will often be slow to pay and full of bureaucracy, but reliable income.

5) Time-boxing is your friend. It is hard to both do the sales and do the work. You need to really be aware of this as a potential problem.

6) Do sales by not doing sales - there is a lot to be said for meet up groups, speaking opportunities, providing "free" resources, etc. That is - be seen as an expert in your community and people will come to you and/or you will have already passed the social validation test.

tucaz · 2 years ago
Item 1 is key in my mind. As someone in a role that procures a lot of services the worst thing someone trying to get a foot in the door can do is “everything”. Especially if you can’t explain how you work.

It leaves all the burden of figuring out how I could potentially use your services on me, and I’ll try my best to avoid having to deal with that uncertainty on top of what I’m already trying to achieve.

If you want to be successful offering services be very clear about how you work.

MR4D · 2 years ago
I'll second this as well.

Everyone has a "go-to guy". Often it's a plumber, a handiman, a lawyer, etc. Your might be the "devops guy" or the "Cisco guy", etc.

Build that reputation and then expand.

Also, learn to listen well, ask good questions, and take good notes. Communication when you are independent can make or ruin it for you.

ImPostingOnHN · 2 years ago
> It leaves all the burden of figuring out how I could potentially use your services on me

Thank you for sharing this. I feel a lot of client services businesses starting out (read: individuals going into consulting for themselves for the first time) try to build an enigma to make themselves seem experienced and comprehensive. As a buyer, I want to know, up front, what exactly an engagement with you looks like: What will you do? How much will it cost, over what schedule/criteria? What does our feedback loop look like as we progress?

If I get the impression that you're so desperate for work, you'd agree to do anything and everything for money, I'll feel uneasy. If you're confident about being able to do [thing] well, and can explain what it looks like for us to do [thing] together, it will put me more at ease.

leros · 2 years ago
#1 is something I have a hard time with. I'm a developer who became a generalist and my specialty is not one particular thing. The corporate world wants to pigeon hole me into being a product manager, I'm only average at that. Being able to blend engineering, product, some marketing and general leadership skills is my thing. I can kind of do everything, but I don't know how to make a clear list of services to explain. myself. The contracts I've done so far I've stumbled into and only been successful because of my blend of abilities.
claudiulodro · 2 years ago
Rather than specializing in a skill you could specialize in a market or domain e.g. digital services for furniture manufacturers (probably not a domain you personally are familiar with, but just an example).
946789987649 · 2 years ago
Sounds like who you're targeting right? Big corps don't need generalists, start ups do.
replwoacause · 2 years ago
#2 is particularly insightful. I’m an engineer who strongly dislikes social dynamics, so this point resonates with me.
poulsbohemian · 2 years ago
I have a lisp, a stutter, and would be happy to live in a cabin in the woods far far away from civilization... but I got out of tech and now make a living in real estate and I'm active in politics. If I can learn the techniques to play an extrovert on TV, then anyone can do it. You have to have a plan for how to develop the skills and you have to put work into it, but it really is possible for anyone.

Dead Comment

whalesalad · 2 years ago
https://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Consulting-Giving-Getting-Suc...

The Secrets of Consulting: A Guide to Giving and Getting Advice Successfully by Gerald Weinberg

belter · 2 years ago
Seconded. All books by Gabriel Weinberg.

Some books you read to reflect upon or be better informed. His books instead, are likely to change the way you conduct your business, or validate correct behaviors you adopted instinctively.

belter · 2 years ago
Damn auto-correct. Of course it's Gerald Weinberg. I have my favorite: "Are Your Lights On?: How to Figure Out What the Problem Really is" just on my table right now :-)

Can't edit my comment anymore, so leave the correction here.

arvindkumarc · 2 years ago
Highly appreciated book. But the author is Gerald Weinberg.
bemusedthrow75 · 2 years ago
Optimising for sales at the beginning is just not worth the time.

You have to start with word of mouth to test out whether your offering is really going to work, with kindly/friendly people who already know you as a person and aren't going to panic and get demanding in a way that a customer can do with someone they don't know from Eve.

And you'll need to be earning enough to at least partly offset the raid on your savings to give you time to think through sales strategies.

Freelance devops is often _not_ fun though; your biggest challenge will be controlling the seemingly unbillable work that you end up doing where people really only want to phone you up and get advice. Goodwill kills, so set boundaries with your early clients.

So if you are wise you will have a consultancy package that you can use to control that. And you'll have some sort of pre-paid token/bucket/time allocation system that encourages your clients to use your time wisely for the small stuff, so you can concentrate on the bigger stuff.

(When I say “if you are wise” I don’t mean to patronise. I mean “don’t just pretend it’ll be OK like I did”.)

Further thoughts (learned the hard way)

Consider how your off-ramps are going to work. Clients who are dependent on you but always make the cheap/expedient choices can become a millstone: they have to take your advice or you will end up resentful.

And consider how you are going to manage price rises.

leros · 2 years ago
"And you'll need to be earning enough to at least partly offset the raid on your savings to give you time to think through sales strategies."

This has been my strategy so far. I got laid off 9 months ago and I've barely touched my severance, but I'm also making way less than before and not really saving any money. Could be worse I suppose.

downrightmike · 2 years ago
The major lesson will be to ask for the sale. And work that into the conversation, so less "that'll be $99", but more like "So, would you like the blue or pink one?"

If you don't ask for the sale, you won't get it. If you're solving a problem, making the sale is helping people. They came to you for help for a reason, so treat them well.

sb8244 · 2 years ago
This x 1000.

"No askie, no gettie" is something my co-founder and I say.

I'm the engineering side and struggle with it, but he's really good at it.

hermitcrab · 2 years ago
Yes, you should ask for the sale. But "So, would you like the blue or pink one?" might come across as a bit pushy. "would you like to discuss pricing?" is more of a soft close.
bombcar · 2 years ago
There's a subtle difference there - the first is asking "past the close" but also is asking a pertinent question about it - people who want it will have a color they want, or need to pick one.

Nobody wants to discuss pricing. It's orthogonal to getting the desired end. You have to discuss pricing, but it is not on the list of things people want to do (if you give it to them free, they won't protest). The second is way too easy to say no to.

linuxftw · 2 years ago
I think it might seem pushy to people that are highly skeptical of the product, but in most cases, a sale is implied. When you go to Starbucks, they ask what they can make for you. They don't say "Let me know if you want to talk price."

Car sales is another obvious example. They don't talk price until you're committed (at least in principal) to purchasing the car.

paulcole · 2 years ago
> "would you like to discuss pricing?"

Nobody likes to discuss pricing!

Early on in the call, tell them your price to see if they object. If they do, then get off the call. If there's objections, raise them early and either overcome them or figure out that they can't be overcome.

szundi · 2 years ago
Less of a problem than not having sales
ronanc · 2 years ago
I've had great success with Demand-Side Sales 101: Stop Selling and Help Your Customers Make Progress

"For a lot of us, selling feels icky. Our stomachs tighten at the thought of reciting features and benefits, or pressuring customers into purchasing. It's really not our fault. We weren't taught how to sell, plus we've been sold before, leaving us with a bitter taste.

Here's the truth: sales does not have to feel icky for you or your customers. In fact, with the right approach, sales can be an empowering experience for all.

Bob Moesta, lifelong innovator and coarchitect of the "Jobs to be Done" theory, shares his approach for flipping the lens on sales. Bob shifts the focus of sales from selling, to helping people buy and make progress in their lives--demand-side sales.

Now, in Demand-Side Sales 101, you'll learn to really see what your customers see, hear what they hear, and understand what they mean. You'll not only be a more effective and innovative salesperson--you'll want to help people make progress."

https://www.amazon.com/Demand-Side-Sales-101-Customers-Progr...

morgango · 2 years ago
I am an engineer and have been working in Sales Engineering for more than 15 years now. You are on an interesting and fruitful quest and I wish you well.

The biggest shift in moving from engineering to sales is that your priority is no longer being the smartest person in the room. Unless, of course, you understand that the smartest person in the room is the person who gets the deal done in a mutually advantageous way. There will always be someone who wants to appear smarter than you, LET THEM. Your goal is to make a living.

The one thing I would say to remember is that your integrity is the most valuable thing that you have, bar none. Don't trade it away for anything. Over the long-term, sales is about finding a great solution that meets the needs of your customer, not winning deals or negotiations.

Here are a few books I found useful in my journey: * Let's get real or let's not play - https://www.amazon.com/Lets-Get-Real-Not-Play/dp/1596592060 * The Three value conversations - https://www.amazon.com/Three-Value-Conversations-Customer-Lo... * Never Split the Difference - https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-De... * Leadership is Language - https://www.amazon.com/Leadership-Language-Changes-Differenc... * Draw to win - https://www.amazon.com/Draw-Win-Course-Innovate-Visual-ebook...

jot · 2 years ago
I recommend Jonathan Stark's writing on this: https://jonathanstark.com/

His daily email list gives me regular reminders of how to improve in sales and pricing.

His books are brilliant too. Start with Hourly Billing is Nuts: https://jonathanstark.com/hbin

jeffbrl75 · 2 years ago
Couldn't agree more. Also look into Alan Weiss's books. Avoiding the hourly billing trap via fixed fee pricing (preferably with value-based pricing) will the best decision you make both for your quality of life and wallet.
photon_lines · 2 years ago
Sorry I know this is a relatively late comment, but I recently did a summary on Sam Altman's recommended reading list and I had a great time reading 'How I Raised Myself From Failure to Success In Selling (by Frank Bettger).' I actually provided a full book summary near this end of the post: https://photonlines.substack.com/p/sam-altmans-startup-advic...