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Posted by u/funarchist 2 years ago
Ask HN: When to Start a Business?
I am aware that this is a very comprehensive question. It includes individuals own circumstances, experience, country, and macroeconomic situation. In my life, I have tried to start a business or frequently had the urge to start one. But, retrospectively, when I look at them, I see many reasons why I shouldn't have done it. Moreover, these created a huge amount of opportunity cost. I think I am more inclined to be impatient regarding this topic. My question is more specifically: what are the heuristics I can use to understand that this is the right time for me to start a business that does not create huge opportunity costs and is not an impulse that is the result of my impatience?
ramboldio · 2 years ago
There is a cool study that says that the likelihood of your startup suceeding does not peak until your late 50s.

https://hbr.org/2018/07/research-the-average-age-of-a-succes...

I think the public debate is so skewed towards young founders because it is so centered around extreme outlier founders and companies.

pinkmuffinere · 2 years ago
This is interesting! I wish it would address whether the founders in their 50s had spent their 20s-40s continually trying to start companies. I expect more experience in starting something makes you better at doing so. But this would mean that people should _start_ young, so they can eventually succeed
bombcar · 2 years ago
Remember that most startups don't have a "single founder" and the founder who becomes the "face" of the startup if it goes big is not necessary the only contributor to the success.

Older partners may have less time to dedicate to the startup, or have other reasons to hold back.

It may also indicate that a percentage of startup success is attributable to networking effects, which mostly grow with age.

I think the biggest thing to start a successful business is to not start a startup.

epistasis · 2 years ago
I think another huge factor is the network of people you know and the breadth of knowledge you can tap into that way.

Superstar young founders have crowds coming to them to fill those gaps, but less high profile young founders don't have access to that.

I would think that a very astute person starting their first startup in their 40s, but with tons of connections and deep knowledge in the target market, would have an easier time than a generalist that had done ton of startups but with less connection to the target market. But that's a broad heuristic which may have nearly as many exceptions to the rule as data supporting it...

randomdata · 2 years ago
> whether the founders in their 50s had spent their 20s-40s continually trying to start companies.

Apart from some differences in legal paperwork, starting a company and seeking employment are the exact same thing. An employee needs everything else that makes a business: Sales, marketing, capital, viable product, customers, etc. So, unless you think it is the legal paperwork that falters those who are younger, almost assuredly they did. Just like most everyone else.

Lack of capital is what kills most businesses. Statistically, 50-somethings have the greatest access to free capital. Any younger and you're still working on acquiring it. Any older and you have to focus what you have towards supporting retirement. That may explain it more than anything.

codingdave · 2 years ago
My cynical take is that the young founder phenomenon is because the young folk haven't seen enough to know when they are getting screwed over, so the VCs are able to keep more control for less money when working with inexperienced talent.
jansan · 2 years ago
That is the information I needed. I am sitting here with my almost finished app, sometimes about to give up after having put so much work into it, thinking I am too old to get this done. I will pull this through, thank you!
hirako2000 · 2 years ago
You might look into building in the open.

At 20, 50 or 60, one constant is that building something for too long is the opposite of what generally leads to any traction.

Put it out there, post about it on platforms discussing what the app does, ask randoms (but your target audience) to try out the app for feedback, already.

Get out there, it's exhausting for introverts, but the web makes it less daunting than ever. Only Apple stuff and maybe tesla sell all by themselves.

What's the app going btw, does it run?

djyaz1200 · 2 years ago
Counterpoint to starting a business: the founder of Nvidia, who is worth tens of billions, says if he had it to do over again, he wouldn't. Starting and running a business takes a tremendous toll. https://www.forbes.com/sites/julianteicke/2023/10/28/jensen-...

If you insist on proceeding... Validate demand first; once you find something you're sure people want, you know a great deal about these people and enjoy working with them. You're sure you can find lots of them, and you find the core problem you're working on fun and interesting.

My dad told me... "A successful business is when you can do something badly and people will still pay you for it." That's key in a startup because it takes a long time and a lot of money to do most things well, so you need customers who will settle for ok.

Good luck!

0xNotMyAccount · 2 years ago
Beware of wealthy people saying they wouldn't do it again. They are just validating their own lifestory: it was hard, incredibly hard. Implicit in that statement are approximately 8 billion other statements, where they believe they suffered more than than every other individual on Earth who makes less than them.
jacknews · 2 years ago
Exactly, would he really rather be another worker drone, perhaps desperately looking for a job, having been 'let go' by the latest round of owner-class imposed austerity, and perhaps facing looming unpayable rent bills etc?
MuffinFlavored · 2 years ago
> Validate demand first;

Some people just don't want to have a boss/want to solve new problems every day even if it isn't the most "efficient" thing they can do with their time in terms of ROI

ElevenLathe · 2 years ago
Even if that's all you want, you need to be sure someone somewhere will pay you, and that you have some hope of getting them to do so. Otherwise, it's not a business, just a hobby you're hoping will pay your rent.
spacecadet · 2 years ago
Since you said heuristics, I'll try to leave out my unquantifiable experiences.

I also think that the question you are asking is maybe best answered by someone with a Sales or Product background... tho I could be convinced otherwise.

-Do you have an idea?

-Can you describe the customer?

-Can you find example customers?

-Can you sell this without a demo or prototype?

-If not, which one do you need?

-Can you self-produce said demo or prototype?

-If not, can you source the talent?

-If not, yer f*cked! jk jk

Im pushing you toward validating your idea and your passion to do it! But, don't fret- here is my experiential advice:

-Form your own LLC, protect yourself.

-Dont skimp or cut corners on legal!

-Dont focus on only single solution at first, try to map your strengths and passions to a problem. That problem to a custom group.

-Goals! Just be real, set some simple quarterly/yearly goals and measure them! Seriously.

I have not personally produced a windfall startup, but I have built/consulted for many, and many founders directly... and I run my own consultancy for 20 years now. It can simply be boiled down to, Passion, Problem, Customer. You lack any 1 of the 3, it wont play out nicely.

FredPret · 2 years ago
I always wanted to own a business.

So I thought I'd get a job at a big corp, see if I can learn how business works, save up some money, and then start a company. That's exactly what I did, but it was a big mistake.

There's no better (other?) way to learn than to do. And you learn about a hundred times more and faster if it's your business versus a job, no matter how high-powered.

I should've started before I even left high school and simply failed many times. All's well that ends well though!

el_benhameen · 2 years ago
I’ve always felt like this is how I would best succeed, too, but only after the initial spark. I have business ideas, but I haven’t had the one that really feels like it could go somewhere. What was your process of “idea linting” like?
FredPret · 2 years ago
Step 0: see if you can get someone to pay you for the thing you want to sell. It's not so much about what you want to provide, but more about what the market wants to consume.
funarchist · 2 years ago
I would be really happy if you elaborated on why you think that was a mistake. I am considering a similar road.
bombcar · 2 years ago
Usually it's because all the stuff you learned "on the job" isn't terribly useful to running a business, because tiny businesses and large companies operate so differently.

This is not the case where the "job" is basically an apprenticeship, such as lawyer or plumber or what-have-you.

vladms · 2 years ago
Not the author, but in my experience at big(ish) corps: it will gather lots of people that want a safe job, people that want to do only one thing, or people that want predictability. None of these are bad things, just that they are different from startups.

Also compared to a startup there are a lot of departments so you will probably need to do few things outside your job or even interact with people doing unrelated stuff to your job.

FredPret · 2 years ago
Turns out almost all jobs, with the possible exception of commission-only sales, are nothing like owning a business at all.

For one thing, you're only covering a tiny part of the enterprise.

Another issue is you have a performance safety net. Most people coast through life, which is OK, but that's not good enough for running a company.

The most important problem though is that a job has a well-defined path, but in business you can never know what the "right" thing to do is until after you've done it and it either worked or didn't. Having a well-trod path you can follow is a million times easier than starting with nothing and making it all up as you go along.

To quote King George 3 in Hamilton: "it's so much harder when it's all your call."

I think the way to do it is to start a business, inevitably fail, and then just rinse and repeat until you finally figure it out. Easier said than done!

CuriouslyC · 2 years ago
If you aren't exchanging money for goods or services, you don't have a business, full stop. You might be building a project, or creating something, but that is separate from having a business.

You have to ask yourself, do you care about creating something, or do you just want to be your own boss? If you want to create things, create things and think about capitalizing afterwards (or maybe not at all, depending) when you find that people are asking for something like the thing you created. If you want to be your own boss, just get into white labeling/arbitrage/reselling/etc, there are a lot of side hustle guides out there that will get you profitable a lot faster than trying to start a business with your own original idea.

randomdata · 2 years ago
> If you aren't exchanging money for goods or services, you don't have a business, full stop.

You wouldn't have a profitable business without holding a debt over someone (money), but a business can also see the transaction be fulfilled and completed in the moment. If I sell pottery and you sell chickens, and we agree to exchange pottery for chickens, then no debt (money) is involved, but we still have viable businesses.

bombcar · 2 years ago
"Money" here stands in for anything the government would try to tax, which includes bartering.

Basically, where are the customers? If you only have theoretical ones, you don't have a business yet, you have a project or startup.

jononor · 2 years ago
Do you pay yourself in chickens?
Dig1t · 2 years ago
Do you have any references/links for the side hustle guides you're talking about?
jwindle47 · 2 years ago
I'm wrestling with this same question myself. I have never had any idea. For me I've started businesses when the external pressure of having a co-founder dictated that I should. Or, I'd be in a fit of passion-inspired development for a few weeks until it was time to talk to customers. I think the answer varies from person to person. It's hard to say what a good heuristic would be. We all operate with different heuristics.

For instance I now have a family, and starting a business would either take me away from family time, involve nights and weekends work, or involve quitting my day job (of which the bar is now very high).

If you find the answer, let me know!

funarchist · 2 years ago
I actually created a set of heuristics that would increase the likelihood of success for the company. However, I am occasionally frustrated by the amount of time it takes to prepare for these conditions before actually founding the company. Maybe it helps.

1. Maximize the effect of geographic arbitrage. Regarding the macroeconomic, political, and social situations of countries regarding their GDP, GDP per capita, and the number of millionaires and billionaires gives a good idea. There are also chances that highly skilled people are also there. Solution: Immigrate to the country and best city in this manner.

2. Maximize legal flexibility. - Having citizenship in a country is hugely advantageous in terms of safety net, a good passport for global travel, and making business with specific industries.

3. Have a skill set and job that make you the top 5–10 percent of earners. Wait to see where salary increases change marginally. When you start working, climbing to a high-paying job and being in the top 5–10 percent of earners in a population is significantly easier and safer than building a business. However, after some years of year-to-year increases, the salary doesn't move you in lower percentages significantly.

4. Acquisition of enough information regarding operating business. - Having knowledge regarding the meta-information of business like legal, accounting, HR, marketing, logistics, manufacturing, etc.

5. Global Industry Wave Riding a historical wave of technologically induced progress can increase the potential maximum of the point significantly.

6. While having the job first, MVP builds, ships, and sales have been done.

7. Having 200–250k of money to burn. With three founders each putting similar money this is enough money to build a team of 3–4 people and keep the company alive for 12–15 months.

But as I said, these things in my own abilities take years and years, and it is really frustrating. However, I know it is logical or a good plan. I would love any feedback anyone have.

antisthenes · 2 years ago
1. When you feel you have enough knowledge and competitive edge to stand out above the current market participants.

2. When the failure of the business will not ruin your life (and, very importantly, your family/dependents lives)

3. When you feel there are enough advantageous circumstances (like first-mover advantage, or you are lucky enough to be part of a skilled group that is like-minded, or you simply are extremely motivated not to work for an employer anymore)

These are just my honest observations, ymmv.

Some people are more risk-averse, so they will want more pre-conditions, some people are okay with just 1 of the above, etc.

mlhpdx · 2 years ago
I don’t consider myself a typical “entrepreneur” and I don’t think others generally would, either.

The thing is, I have businesses that just made obvious sense. They aren’t in the glorious technology sphere, and I’m not trying to grow them aggressively. They were all formed based on a need I had, usually because having a business that did “X” was cheaper than paying one to do it. Now, collectively they make me very comfortable.

In my experience it’s not about “big” or exciting decisions to create a business, it is about efficiency with money and time.