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failTide · 2 years ago
I've been reading about this roach backpack for ~25 years - is this approach (connecting to antennae) a dead end?

A version is commercially available as a type of learning toy. https://backyardbrains.com/products/roboroachBackpack

jahewson · 2 years ago
Cockroach stories are very resilient and can survive almost anything.
blindriver · 2 years ago
I came in to say this exact same thing. I've heard this story so many times over my lifetime, the idea that this is the "future" feels like Tesla's Full Self Driving Robotaxi fleet, just a few years away every year!
civilitty · 2 years ago
It’s not a dead end per se because cockroaches are used as a model organism in neuroscience experiments. They’re just not very useful outside of academic research for the same reason that they’re useful in the lab: their brains are very simple.

I think this application would only work if they were released as a swarm, using basic triangulation of the mesh network to get them to spread out throughout the rubble, exploiting their natural ability to crawl all over the place in great numbers.

u32480932048 · 2 years ago
"Everyone: remain calm. Our mobile cockroach nest has just arrived and we'll be sending in the swarm, just as soon we can get them geared up and briefed. On the off-chance anyone isn't pinned and can still move their legs, please don't step on them!"

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j4yav · 2 years ago
Maybe it's just me but wiring electronics into the brains of animals to remote control them seems morally wrong, even if it's "for a good cause."
abraae · 2 years ago
Agree, though I guess it's only one step further on from fattening them up on chemically enhanced food before killing them and eating them. Which I put up with in order to eat my share of meat.
nurettin · 2 years ago
The same kind of animal you would mass-murder with chemicals if one had too many children in your house. And then sigh in relief when they are all dead.

Yes, it's just you.

j4yav · 2 years ago
All righty

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ceejayoz · 2 years ago
A cockroach seems about as sentient as ChatGPT is.
dilawar · 2 years ago
I doubt it. At minimum, chatgpt needs to run away from painful stimuli (given a choice).
MichaelZuo · 2 years ago
GPT4 might already be more so then the median cockroach.
fbdab103 · 2 years ago
To be coldly analytical about this: how many people discovered in rubble are successfully rescued? It makes for good TV, but finding those people, orchestrating the movement of debris, while person is potentially injured, all given the context of a wide-spread disaster seems low odds.

When the Surfside condominium collapsed in Miami (a very localized calamity), did rescuers have a genuine belief that anyone trapped underneath could still be alive and saved? From my armchair, it seemed foregone conclusion that there were going to be no survivors.

Seems much better to have a contingent of drones which can quickly canvas an area and locate survivors visibly trapped or otherwise requiring assistance on the surface.

Edit: Wiki page on the Surfside: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse Apparently four people were extracted, and three of them survived

MattGaiser · 2 years ago
Four people were recovered from the rubble alive (one later died) in Surfside, so that wasn’t the conclusion at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse

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u32480932048 · 2 years ago
In the US at least, there's typically a presumption of survivors. One benefit to this is it provides "real-world" training (even if everyone's dead) - collapsed buildings are especially difficult/expensive to simulate. Rescuer safety is the major variable in deciding how much time and effort to put in.

So you'll see searches continue for an "unreasonable" period of time, both because people seem to survive in unreasonable circumstances and also because you've already got everyone out there - but once the weather turns bad, they'll usually start scaling it back or call it off (unless there's high confidence that something specific needs to happen in a specific area).

USAR teams have a variety of listening equipment to attempt to localize victims in a collapsed building, and while that ability could definitely be improved, I'm very skeptical that sending in a bunch of cockroaches to crawl all over people pinned in rubble is the best we can come up with.

julianeon · 2 years ago
To be coldly analytical in response: Surfside is a bad example. You're right that it wouldn't matter there, but that's not the use case.

On the national level, because there are few dire incidents in an affluent peaceful nation, there may not be much use for this in, say, the USA. You can solve most of its emergency problems with raw manpower and there aren't many resource constraints.

It's real use case is international, especially in times and places of war.

I can pick two out of the news right now - Ukraine, Palestine - and say it would be helpful there. But even if those wars ended, we can be certain new ones will crop up with similar conditions, where it could also be used. There will always be places, internationally, where buildings are collapsing and resources for rescue are scant to nonexistent.

westurner · 2 years ago
What about aerial infrared for (news,) helicopters and quadcopters?

How to cost that over for disaster relief

https://universemagazine.com/en/how-nasa-helps-find-people-t... :

> Scientists affiliated with NASA developed a device called FINDER (Finding Individuals for Disaster and Emergency Response) ten years ago, which can accomplish this task rapidly. FINDER is a microwave radar capable of sensing the smallest movements through the debris.

https://spinoff.nasa.gov/FINDER-Finds-Its-Way-into-Rescuers-...

Also, "Phonon Signatures in Photon Correlations" (2023) https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.13...

chasd00 · 2 years ago
I saw this in popular mechanics 30 years ago I swear to god. The movie The Fifth Element even parodies this with a “spy cockroach”.
lacrimacida · 2 years ago
Tech has caught up though. A cockroch robot or a swarm of them could enter small passages that are otherwise dificult and time consuming with other means. They could map the area in various ways, look for signs of life, etc. Oh, and they don’t have to look exactly like roaches. I know many are put off by the likeness to something we find not so pleasant
MrsPeaches · 2 years ago
My understanding is that it’s not interfacing with the insect’s brain directly but is instead using electrodes to stimulate receptors that trick the insect into thinking it has felt something on its left/right side and moving accordingly.

Other approaches include inserting electrodes into muscular tissue and stimulating that to cause the muscle to move. This article also describes inserting the electrodes into moth pupae and the moth growing around the electrodes:

https://robot-watch-impress-co-jp.translate.goog/cda/news/20...

southernplaces7 · 2 years ago
And so very obviously, surveillance. This little fellow would be a spy's/cop's wet dream of physical intrusion.
brutusborn · 2 years ago
Then we get a weapons race where 1. organised crime invests in high end pest control, 2. Cops start using robotic equivalent, 3. Organised crime invests in jamming systems / robotic defence / faraday cages
u32480932048 · 2 years ago
inb4 Cockroaches aren't real

(Also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insectothopter)

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