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Posted by u/max_ 2 years ago
Ask HN: What are the economics of a streaming based record label?
Hi,

I have been looking at starting a record label as a side business. But it would be designed mostly to make money from Music Streaming services like Apple Music, Spotify, YouTube and others.

I am thinking of using CD Baby for distribution of the music.

Streaming services are not explicitly open about how much they pay per stream.

I understand that the failure rate is high just like startups and movies.

But I also realised that a hit song can accrue 500 million streams or even 1 Billion streams of its a big hit.

My question is, how much interms of range should one expect to make incase they make such numbers.

Is anyone here making money through streaming music? What's your estimated earning per stream across Spotify, Apple Music, & YouTube?

Also, any other tips of how to run the project or improve odds of success or learning/reading resources would be very much appreciated.

floydianspiral · 2 years ago
The content of this is a strange to read so my initial take is it seems like you know nothing about the music industry or record labels but i'll argue in good faith. A simple google answers your per stream questions: https://www.igroovemusic.com/blog/how-much-do-i-get-per-stre... The sad answer is almost no one is making real money off streaming except the .001%

Record labels aren't quite what they used to be now that we have distrokid, tunecore, soundcloud, etc as independent artists can get their music on streaming services themselves. You say you want to be a label, what are you bringing to the table? Do you have any connections in the music industry? These days the only way to make money off a song streaming is if it gets picked up by the big playlists, but guess what? Those are mostly curated by the big labels and you have to have connections to get on them. You can try and get your music on smaller curated lists by blasting out to popular blogs and reading lists as well. Use social media, hope you get lucky on tiktok. Google how to get your music viral as a social media influencer. The real answer here is there is no actual formula but by putting yourself out there on a ton of platforms and hopefully something sticks and it goes viral. At the end of the day is the music has to actually be good (read: something sticky even if its pop drivel) for people to spread it. As a musician and independent producer, this post irks me a little bit as you're basically signaling you want to simply make money from music rather than doing it for the love of the art. If that's not the case I wish you the best.

gabereiser · 2 years ago
To the OP: Don’t be discouraged. Indie artists are out there and if you get connections in that space it’s pretty accommodating. You will not make a living off of streams. You will not make it as a streaming only label. The economics of scale only work at the very very very top. Everyone else is touring, merching, festivals, or lending talent in other aspects of entertainment (licensing for example).

To above: you knocked it out of the park with “what do you bring to the table?”. This is what labels do. This is what labels are for. Calling out the questionable motives - only the bold and determined survive the music business. If you aren’t in it for the passion, you will fail.

PaulDavisThe1st · 2 years ago
I am a nothing-to-no-one home experimenter with modular synthesis.

I have one album of my music on Bandcamp. From that album I've received a total of US$50.

On spotify that represents 15k streams. On apple music, 5k streams (*) These are numbers totally out of reach. But because 7 people liked the album enough, I still made enough for a modest meal out with my wife.

Fuck this streaming shit. So tired of young musicians telling me that streaming is where the audience is. If you really believe that somehow you're going to become a superstar, by all means keep playing that game. But if you want to make money without becoming a superstar, focusing on people who actually pay for music is where it's at.

(*) https://producerhive.com/music-marketing-tips/streaming-roya...

mjr00 · 2 years ago
Putting your music on streaming services is marketing, because yes, streaming is where the audience is. You say 7 people bought your album, which is great (congrats!), but how did they find out your album existed in the first place?

As odd as it sounds, in music-as-a-business, the mentality needs to be that the music you're putting out is marketing for the actual product, which is the musician themselves. Because it's fans of the musician who do things like buy physical records, go to shows when they're on tour, or buy merchandise, which are the things that actually generate revenue.

gabereiser · 2 years ago
>As odd as it sounds, in music-as-a-business, the mentality needs to be that the music you're putting out is marketing for the actual product, which is the musician themselves.

It’s actually the other way around. The music is the product. The musicians are replaceable.

Every “music-as-a-business” has shaken up lineups and replaced musicians, front men, dancers, roadies, publicists, managers, everyone.

digging · 2 years ago
> but how did they find out your album existed in the first place?

I would assume they found it through Bandcamp's discovery services if the user is not putting their music on streaming services.

PaulDavisThe1st · 2 years ago
> but how did they find out your album existed in the first place?

No idea. Should I care?

> As odd as it sounds, in music-as-a-business, the mentality needs to be that the music you're putting out is marketing for the actual product

I fundamentally disagree with this.

super256 · 2 years ago
> So tired of young musicians telling me that streaming is where the audience is.

I’m only a music consumer, not a producer, but I found some of my favorite artists (small, less than 20k monthly listeners) via streaming and bought their merch and tickets to live shows. So these young artists aren’t exactly wrong in my opinion.

PaulDavisThe1st · 2 years ago
The audience is streaming, no question about that.

The question is where is the paying audience ? The answer to that is a bit less clear.

Also, given how many musicians and music fans appear to NOT know about Bandcamp, it's tricky to gauge the extent to which that model is an alternative or not.

nerdponx · 2 years ago
What's the alternative? Only selling 7 albums and nobody else ever even hearing your music?
_spduchamp · 2 years ago
Why use your label when I can use Distrokid, create my own label, and distribute my own music on all the streaming platforms?

I don't expect huge money from streaming, but I do like people to be able to find my music on their preferred service if they search for it.

keiferski · 2 years ago
For a somewhat different approach, I recommend looking into a fashion/music company called Maison Kitsune. Quoting Wikipedia:

> Maison Kitsuné was founded in 2002 as a record label by Gildas Loaëc and Masaya Kuroki in Paris. The founders first met in Loaëc's record shop in Paris where house music lovers, including Kuroki, Daft Punk, and others, frequented. After a trip to Japan for a music video together, they came up with the idea of launching a lifestyle brand not confined to one discipline. The result was Maison Kitsuné, which blends music and fashion as a multi-faceted Paris-meets-Tokyo brand. The pair promoted the brand by performing DJ sets, which was followed by the release of the first t-shirt, shirt, dress, and eventually a full fledged ready-to-wear collection in 2005 that represents 90 percent of its revenue today.

The lesson here is: whatever niche interest or community you are involved in, try to combine it with your record label project. This is more unique and has a better chance of success than just a generic label.

nemothekid · 2 years ago
I know one of one person doing a "streaming based" record label that brings in quite a bit of money. As I understand it (and I don't know if the business opportunity still exists), the best way to succeed is acquiring rights for an existing catalog of popular music. Through a family connection he had started acquiring the rights to several old 70s and 80s mexican/southern american music and putting them on streaming. The music already had an audience, there was no talent to maintain, and acquiring the licenses was relatively cheap.

As for new music; I don't see what a "side business" label could offer an artist that they couldn't do themselves with distrokid. Unless you had the capital to develop, build, and market artists I think it would be very difficult to generate a return.

ndeast · 2 years ago
As others have said, running a record label (in this day and age) is a labor of love. You do it because you love the music, you love the artists and you love the scene. I am friends with a few label owners and it's an absolute treat when their release breaks even. I don't think a whole lot more needs to be said really. You are approaching this with entirely the wrong motivations here. Start with a passion in music and the desire to give your friends band a platform to try and scrape together a barely sustainable living, or even just get their songs pressed on a physical medium. At least that will be spiritually profitable.
cpach · 2 years ago
Good point.

Also: Please correct me if I’m wrong but I would guess that quite a few owners of indie labels also have other sources of income in order to make a living…? I.e. a dayjob.

ndeast · 2 years ago
The vast majority of indie label owners are toiling away by day to fund their passions. If you are a successful indie label you are likely investing a lot of your profit back in to sign and put out more bands. Some are able to run a profitable record label along side a more 'traditional' business like a record store, recording studio, or being in a fulltime touring band.
xigency · 2 years ago
Long story short, it would be a good project if you have passion and excitement for music and are willing to take it on as a labor of love. As a money-making venture, starting your own independent record label has a pretty poor outlook.
smoldesu · 2 years ago
I had a friend in high school who owned her own music label. She was the most talented musician I had ever met in terms of performance, arrangement and overall songwriting. She released albums on an annual schedule, and even had a small fanbase of listeners that I was a part of.

The money she made off music was pitiful though. She didn't just own her own label, she toured and wrote music every weekday. She gave it everything, more than most people have to offer, and in the end she got a salary most people would call "unlivable". The recent recession and COVID situation pushed her into a Starbucks job to pay rent.

So... do what you want. I just want people to know that you could be one of the most talented self-made musicians in the world, and still go destitute despite owning your own label.