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Posted by u/robomartin 3 years ago
Ask HN: Why aren’t planes boarded back-to-front?
Every time I fly I see the same problem. Planes are boarded front-to-back. You always get a “traffic jam” of passengers stowing their gear and waiting for others to sit down and get out of the way.

If they boarded staring from the rear, this should be mitigated to a large extent.

This seems common sense. Why don’t they do it? There must be a reason.

They could board first and business class and then reverse board.

l1n · 3 years ago
You might like this CGP Grey video that explains it pretty well: The Better Boarding Method Airlines Won't Use https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHbLRjF0vo
ParetoOptimal · 3 years ago
Mythbusters also covered it some time ago.
quaffapint · 3 years ago
Associated mythbusters video (clip, so leaves out some details)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss1S3-Kv6R8
mindslight · 3 years ago
I was disappointed that he held onto the assumption that everybody needs an assigned seat. Southwest has boarding groups, but not assigned seats. This feels vastly superior because once a person finds a seat they want to stay in it, as opposed to disrupting the incoming stream by trying to trade seats to be closer to traveling companions etc.
cantaloa · 3 years ago
I'm actually amazed to hear someone say this. Maybe you only travel alone, like middle seats, and are always first to board?

Every time I accidentally fly Southwest, I'm horrified at how bad the boarding system is. People plop down wherever leaving one-seat holes so you can't sit with your partner.

It also guarantees more seat trading than an assigned system because most people in the assigned system have seats they wanted. People on Southwest flights are always haggling so they can sit with their partner. I almost never see seat trading on other flights.

My mind is blown. But then again every time I take a Southwest flight, I'm wondering "who tf is this for?" and I've finally found my guy.

akerl_ · 3 years ago
I feel like you’re vastly overestimating the percentage of passengers who trade seats.

Most airlines’ boarding strategies are terrible, but getting rid of assigned seats would objectively make my flight experience more chaotic.

danaris · 3 years ago
This inevitably results in window and aisle seats being filled quickly, and nothing remaining (within that section) but middle seats.

And because corralling children (even teenage children!) is much harder than just getting up and walking on yourself, this results in families almost invariably having to either accept being spread across separate seats in multiple rows, or being pushy about trading seats with exactly the kinds of people who have aggressively made sure they get there first.

ghaff · 3 years ago
As a formerly very frequent traveler, not having an assigned seat sounds completely awful to me. Not that I've had much reason to use Southwest since I lived in the South, it's unlikely I would ever fly them barring unusual circumstances for that reason.
chrismcb · 3 years ago
The problem with southwest is people tend to board from the front to the back.

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version_five · 3 years ago
Airlines started charging for checked bags so everyone started bringing massive carry-on bags. If you board last, there is no room for your bag. So it's a "perk" to get on first as an economy passenger. Boarding order for economy is usually 1. Frequent fliers with status giving them priority boarding, who also get to choose their seat and pick as close to the front as they can, 2. Back to front in "zones".

I'd also add, I've seen some more sophisticated theoretical boarding strategies, but passengers have trouble even understanding zones, there's no chance of boarding alternate rows or whatever working in practice.

acwan93 · 3 years ago
United and Delta tried during the pandemic to improve social distancing [1] but switched back once travel came back, and I'm guessing this kind of boarding ended up being slower. It turns out the Southwest way (random boarding) was still the fastest.

>Loading back to front just moves the line inside the plane, but is not significantly faster than loading from the front to the back.[2]

[1]: https://thepointsguy.com/news/back-to-front-boarding-coronav...

[2]: https://thepointsguy.com/2012/10/travel-science-improving-ai...

hnburnsy · 3 years ago
I find SWA the fastest boarding but after boarding is complete there is a 5-10 minute delay from the gate agents delivering documentation to the pilots, as opposed to airlines like Delta where boarding absolutely takes longer but once boarding is complete, the plane quickly leaves the gate. In the end it feels like they take the same amount of time.
basch · 3 years ago
To avoid a line forming in the plane, they should board by column, even rows then odd rows. A Odd. E Even. B Odd. D Even. C. D Odd. B Even. E Odd. A Even. People and family together can board together, only if their towards the window counterpart has been called.
chrismcb · 3 years ago
Random is mostly the fastest. But I find think southwest is exactly random. As most people tend to sit in the first seats, so southwest turns into a front to back boarding. One thing nice about southwest is orderly lines.
ericalexander0 · 3 years ago
Taking a guess that it's a sales tactic. Everyone has to walk past first class, where they're already being served food and beverages in their luxury sized seats. Then past business class. Then to your peasant seat.
Simulacra · 3 years ago
That's interesting because studies have shown that passengers that have to walk to first class are primed for air rage, and resentment.

https://www.economist.com/gulliver/2016/05/11/resentment-of-...

I remember boarding a Virgin flight in Australia in 2019 and they boarded from both ends of the plane. I thought that was the most efficient way.

ghaff · 3 years ago
More to the point, the people paying more (or with status) want to get settled in first, get their carry-ons stowed while there's plenty of room, and not be standing around any longer than they have to. It's not just business vs. economy. On a lot of carriers, some economy gets boarded earlier, may have more leg room, and won't have trouble getting overhead bin space. (And they can deboard faster--and probably don't have checked luggage so they can get out of the airport faster.)
bryananderson · 3 years ago
I think this is right (people clearly desire early boarding), but I don’t personally understand it. Being crammed in an airplane isn’t the best—why do people want to do it for extra time (and while sitting on the ground, without the beautiful views from above)?

Boarding last when you’re in the back is no fun because you’re squeezing past everyone who’s trying to get their carry-on situated, but boarding last in the front seems like a luxury.

Overhead bin space does make sense for why people in economy want to board first. But first/business class typically have their own bins, so why do they want to board first?

teeray · 3 years ago
Why isn’t overhead bin space a paid product instead of checked luggage? It feels like the incentives are inverted. If you want the luxury of taking your bag from above your head and rolling out to the curb, that should cost more than having to wait at the baggage claim.
croutonwagon · 3 years ago
I have noticed a lot of folks will toss their overhead well forward of their seat. So by the time you get to the back there’s plenty of overhead but the folks in the front have to walk back AND wait for the entire plane to deboard to get their stuff.

It makes more sense when thinking of the deboarding logistics to go front to back to ensure those sitting in the front will have overhead space at their seat as intended.

Basically people ruined it.

JALTU · 3 years ago
Ha ha ha, coincidentally I just explained this to my son on a recent trip. There are seven levels of boarding classes for Alaska Airlines. Seven.

Seems simple if one cares to admit it: Status.

No judgment here, even though we were in fact in the last category of seven. Not needing extra time for kids/elderly, not premier, not business, not military, not strata du jour...so yes, our category boarded from the back to front! Sort of... :-)

ghayes · 3 years ago
Which is really a product of higher checked bag fees so now overhead is at a premium and often runs out, hence why getting on early is so important to people.
93po · 3 years ago
Every flight I've been on checks bags for free when space runs out, my issue is I deliberately never check bags because they lost my luggage once and I never want to repeat that again.
hedora · 3 years ago
Yeah; it is amazing how much nicer Southwest boarding is, with one free checked bag, than say, JetBlue, which charges for carry ons, then runs out of overhead space anyway, and tries to pay people (with a tiny travel vouncher; lol) to voluntarily check their carry ons.

For bonus points, they have to police the size of carry ons to make sure no one sneaks on to the plane with something that won’t fit under their seat.

Of course, their website obfuscates these terrible policies, so then you get to watch a line of people that look like they want to scream at the poor boarding agents.

ghaff · 3 years ago
People say this and I don't believe it. At the airport, what I see is business travelers with their carry-on (roll-aboards are often unnecessary space wasters but that's another topic)--and generally they wouldn't even need to pay for checked luggage anyway whether because of status or expensing it; they just don't want to wait for baggage claim or lose the flexibility when flight schedules go sideways. It's couples and families who mostly seem to be checking half their worldly possessions.
readthenotes1 · 3 years ago
Not only the fees, but also the wait at baggage claim for a bag that never comes...
grecy · 3 years ago
> Seems simple if one cares to admit it: Status.

I'm always gobsmacked at the obvious class divide during boarding, and the efforts they go to in order to maintain it. The HUGE signs that "PREMIUM" are over here, and everyone else is over there. I also really like those barriers and retractable ropes/fences they put up, and how they try exceptionally hard to stop me sitting remotely close to the 'Premium' boarding area, even just to read a book.

I don't do anything else much in big public gatherings (public transport, sporting events, live music), so I think it's particularly jarring for me.

Simulacra · 3 years ago
I confess of my guilt in this respect. When I am fortunate enough to sit in a higher class or board early I can't help but feel a little smug about it. On an airplane, dignity has a price...
1attice · 3 years ago
It's literally because people who have paid for business class want to board first.

Think it through. You've just been charged an extra $500 to sit in a chair for four hours, and you're waiting in line behind a mother with five screaming children? You've got very important business things to attend to! Or whatever!

IDK if you ever watched _Veep_ but there's this marvellous episode where a megadonor is complaining that he didn't get more chicken than the $100-plate crowd at a fundraiser. He was literally counting (let's generously say) $5 chicken breasts.

Never mind that he was a hominid of roughly the same proportion as everyone else in the room; did not metabolize food any faster or differently; and certainly couldn't care less about $5.

So: like that, but for air travel.

jghn · 3 years ago
> to sit in a chair for four hours

And this is why I usually wait towards the end of boarding to get on the plane no matter where I'm sitting.

spapas82 · 3 years ago
Actually at least for airplanes in Greece (and I'd presume the whole EU) families with small children have precedence over business class passengers.
ghaff · 3 years ago
US as well.
yodon · 3 years ago
If this question interests you, doing a search for "airline turn around time statistics" is likely to take you to lots of interesting discoveries.

As is commonly the case when one looks at a giant industry and says "I could do this way better having thought about it for 30 seconds" this is a far more difficult problem to optimize than it appears on first glance.

ruh-roh · 3 years ago
I used to travel ...a lot... Minimum twice a week, usually 4+. As an engineer (and process consultant), I spent countless hours sitting at airport gates looking for any optimization I could find, mostly focusing on wasteful and (seemingly expensive) boarding processes.

My favorite half-baked + stupid + fun one: Install the plane seating area at the gate itself, as a separate detached entity on a conveyor belt. Passengers can take their time, it's open, there aren't walls. You can just walk right into Row 20, seat A. No squeezing down aisles. Once everyone arrives and takes their seat, the belt moves and shuttles the seats+passengers into the fuselage. Kinda like a mini-roller coaster. Shut doors. Take off. Repeat in reverse after landing.

(There are obviously serious problems with this. You'd have to redesign planes and gates, at a minimum.)