> Promoting smoking cessation may be a good way to preserve cognitive health at the population level, irrespective of diabetes and hypertension status, the researchers concluded.
Seams like that is a statement that can not be made solely based on the stated connection. To me the initial thought that occurred when reading was something like:
"yeah well smoking is dangerous. People with more cognitive power are presumably better at reasoning themselves out of smoking; Given the fact that smoking is known to increase the risk of getting cancer."
If that description describes something that is a big factor in determining a persons smoking habit, smoking would not necessarily cause a cognitive decline as implied in the recommendation.
Cognitive reasoning has nothing to do with addiction. Addicts invent the most convoluted complex reasoning to not quit that are also contrary to facts they are keenly aware of. Mental gymnastics.
Can confirm anecdotally on this one. I had accepted the logical reasons to quit a good year or so before I actually got rid of them.
When I did manage to kick them it was after I read the Easy way to quit smoking by Allen Carr which helped with the mindset then admittedly I ruined the data by moving house and starting a work from home job, therefore got rid of all of my cigarette initiating habits in one go.
It's not like inventing most convoluted, complex reasoning to delude yourself on a simple matter is a sign of high cognitive capabilities. Quite the contrary.
An intelligent addict will say: I realize it's terrible but I am losing the battle against the urges every day. Anything more than that smells like low cognitive ability to me.
More likely, people who smoke do function better cognitively with a cigarette in their hand. They are nervous and irritable without it. Their brains probably produce insufficient dopamine when they aren't smoking.
People do not have some hidden addict/not-addict bit.
Smart people become addicted to things at a lower rate than not-smart people, and smart people become un-addicted to things at a higher rate than not-smart people.
Rare is the person who doesn't engage in mental gymnastics, like post-hoc rationalization of sub-perceptual heuristic predictions of what is true, sometimes accompanied by proactive debunking of alternative perspectives.
Indeed. This is a matter of virtue. Being more "adept" can lead to more elaborate rationalizations and evasions of the truth to justify substance abuse or even deny that any abuse is happening.
Man, you clearly have no clue about addictions. Addictions work with your emotions 100x stronger than you can muster your reasoning against it. I'd say willpower is the only defense.
You are basically saying - if I am smart enough, I will reach this tantric nirvana in lotus position and wave away these pesky addictions forever (joking a bit but not that much). Not based in reality, which is more like permanent weakness or crack forms in your persona that you can never mend back to original state, just with tons of continuous effort keep working around it, till your last day. It gets a bit better over time, but it takes literally decades and not that much.
Very smart people struggled with addictions, and failed for their whole lives, even if they knew perfectly well how deep in shit they were. Cigarettes are much worse due to smart marketing of tobacco this lethal addiction was completely normalized by society, and in many places still is, so its extremely easy to access them in one's close circles. That's why roughly 95% of the tobacco addicts never succeeded with stopping.
> Promoting smoking cessation may be a good way to preserve cognitive health at the population level, irrespective of diabetes and hypertension status, the researchers concluded.
Emphasis mine. They don't appear to claim anything definitive. But given this new study, and others that claim causal links with smoking leading to atherosclerosis, etc., it's quite plausible. Yet they don't go too far, and still do the right thing and say may.
> "yeah well smoking is dangerous. People with more cognitive power are presumably better at reasoning themselves out of smoking; Given the fact that smoking is known to increase the risk of getting cancer."
Ignoring how absolutely mindboggingly stupid that statement is and how you expose yourself as a massive, clueless asshole ... the one thing your post achieves otherwise is exposing a lot of other people who are also completely disconnected from themselves and the people around them.
The question is: are people stupid because they are smoking or are they smoking because they are stupid.
From the press release, it does not seem that they took any measures to establish causation (like comparing IQ tests from the time before people started smoking). I would wager that people with higher cognitive abilities might be more amenable to the advice of their doctors.
> The question is: are people stupid because they are smoking or are they smoking because they are stupid.
I would argue that culture is a better root cause causal explanation, with stupidity and smoking both being consequences of that (though each with their own causal influence to some degree).
My mother has COPD from being a life long smoker. Because her lungs aren't working 100% her blood oxygen is often lower than optimal, I'm starting to be able to notice when her blood oxygen is low because her sleep pattern gets weird and she starts making silly mistakes in the tasks she's doing.
So that's one way smoking can be a cause of lower cognitive function.
Nicotine could help you think sharper in the short term while smoking still does long-term damage to the brain. This study was about smoking specifically, not nicotine consumption in general.
Luckily we have some good research on both. It turns out smoking, of /any/ substance, is a net negative for a person's health. It is unsurprising that there is long-term damage to the brain, because in the short term when you smoke you are causing a reduction in oxygenation, which no doubt has long-term effects when done repetitively, nicotine aside.
Definitely. Lower class status is associated with smoking. It is certainly the inhaled particulate matter that is causing cognitive issues — similar associations to cognitive decline can be found with high PM2.5 exposure, irrespective of the source (industry, traffic, cooking, woodsmoke, etc).
Nicotine apparently results in higher cotinine levels (which is the marker with which they found a link with lower cognition in this study).
I wonder if there's something about the effects on the brain over time that makes cognitive function worse over time, even if it's helpful in the short-term.
It's also possible people are self-medicating.
If you tested cognitive function on people who have been prescribed to adderall their entire lives vs. people who had not, you might find lower cognitive function in the group with ADD.. but that could also be due to the tests favouring neurotypical people.
Depends how you consume it. I assume cardio vascular health will have long term consequences on cognitive function so a lifetime of smoking might have a negative effect in thinking.
Here's a tip: you can buy concentrated nicotine shots from vape stores, mix 10ml with 5ml ethanol and 5ml water, add a drop of menthol, and you got dirt cheap nicotine mouth spray (Nicorette sells the same thing for an arm and a leg).
Purest, "healthiest" method of consumption I found. Not sure if I'd call it a great thing though. It's still addictive, and no matter what anyone says, I'm pretty sure nicotine is a mild poison. Would advise anyone to stay clear of the substance, unless you're already an addict and currently smoking/vaping/snusing, then it's a great alternative.
There is no evidence that I am aware of that supports it otherwise improving cognition, but for many people anxiolytics will behave like nootropics (and indeed are sometimes listed as one!)
Even moderate alcohol consumption is also associated with cognitive decline. It reduces your white matter (connections between neurons.) My brain is my biggest asset, I would not do anything to compromise it. I don’t touch marijuana or street drugs primarily for that reason. Yet I drink.
So I’m changing that. I’m doing a complete sober month, after which I may go back to drinking occasionally, but only in social activities (once a week or less) and a limit of 3 drinks. So far I’m on track and I don’t miss it anymore (the first week I did.) It’s not worth the downside to me.
Smoking is probably associated with any number of other poor health choices. Seems like the constellation of them as a whole may be a reasonable cause, less so than any one of them.
That's literally the purpose of this study: to control for two other major health problems and see if the (already recognized) correlation still holds.
And I’m saying there are many more, dozens of small choices and more, that make up a bigger picture. I’m talking about choices, not other medical conditions. Choices can influence hypertension and diabetes but choices alone are not always enough. Smoking is always a choice.
> “You still think I’ve gone cracked in the head,” Ben said, amused. “Listen, if tomorrow we pulled into Biren and someone told you there were shamble-men in the woods, would you believe them?”
> My father shook his head.
> “What if two people told you?”
> Another shake.
> Ben leaned forward on his stump. “What if a dozen people told you, with perfect earnestness, that shamble-men were out in the fields, eating—”
> “Of course I wouldn’t believe them,” my father said, irritated. “It’s ridiculous.”
> “Of course it is,” Ben agreed, raising a finger. “But the real question is this: Would you go into the woods?”
Readit News
Seams like that is a statement that can not be made solely based on the stated connection. To me the initial thought that occurred when reading was something like:
"yeah well smoking is dangerous. People with more cognitive power are presumably better at reasoning themselves out of smoking; Given the fact that smoking is known to increase the risk of getting cancer."
If that description describes something that is a big factor in determining a persons smoking habit, smoking would not necessarily cause a cognitive decline as implied in the recommendation.
When I did manage to kick them it was after I read the Easy way to quit smoking by Allen Carr which helped with the mindset then admittedly I ruined the data by moving house and starting a work from home job, therefore got rid of all of my cigarette initiating habits in one go.
An intelligent addict will say: I realize it's terrible but I am losing the battle against the urges every day. Anything more than that smells like low cognitive ability to me.
More likely, people who smoke do function better cognitively with a cigarette in their hand. They are nervous and irritable without it. Their brains probably produce insufficient dopamine when they aren't smoking.
People do not have some hidden addict/not-addict bit.
Smart people become addicted to things at a lower rate than not-smart people, and smart people become un-addicted to things at a higher rate than not-smart people.
Deleted Comment
Citation needed. As the GP pointed out, we have a correlation between addiction and lower cognitive function based on this study.
Deleted Comment
You are basically saying - if I am smart enough, I will reach this tantric nirvana in lotus position and wave away these pesky addictions forever (joking a bit but not that much). Not based in reality, which is more like permanent weakness or crack forms in your persona that you can never mend back to original state, just with tons of continuous effort keep working around it, till your last day. It gets a bit better over time, but it takes literally decades and not that much.
Very smart people struggled with addictions, and failed for their whole lives, even if they knew perfectly well how deep in shit they were. Cigarettes are much worse due to smart marketing of tobacco this lethal addiction was completely normalized by society, and in many places still is, so its extremely easy to access them in one's close circles. That's why roughly 95% of the tobacco addicts never succeeded with stopping.
Deleted Comment
Emphasis mine. They don't appear to claim anything definitive. But given this new study, and others that claim causal links with smoking leading to atherosclerosis, etc., it's quite plausible. Yet they don't go too far, and still do the right thing and say may.
Ignoring how absolutely mindboggingly stupid that statement is and how you expose yourself as a massive, clueless asshole ... the one thing your post achieves otherwise is exposing a lot of other people who are also completely disconnected from themselves and the people around them.
Way to go, asshole! :D
Hope you discover the unconscious parts of your mind that is causing you pain so you can deal with the issue, God luck!
From the press release, it does not seem that they took any measures to establish causation (like comparing IQ tests from the time before people started smoking). I would wager that people with higher cognitive abilities might be more amenable to the advice of their doctors.
I would argue that culture is a better root cause causal explanation, with stupidity and smoking both being consequences of that (though each with their own causal influence to some degree).
So that's one way smoking can be a cause of lower cognitive function.
Deleted Comment
Also smoking has a lot of non-nicotine garbage and poison.
I wonder if there's something about the effects on the brain over time that makes cognitive function worse over time, even if it's helpful in the short-term.
It's also possible people are self-medicating.
If you tested cognitive function on people who have been prescribed to adderall their entire lives vs. people who had not, you might find lower cognitive function in the group with ADD.. but that could also be due to the tests favouring neurotypical people.
Purest, "healthiest" method of consumption I found. Not sure if I'd call it a great thing though. It's still addictive, and no matter what anyone says, I'm pretty sure nicotine is a mild poison. Would advise anyone to stay clear of the substance, unless you're already an addict and currently smoking/vaping/snusing, then it's a great alternative.
Obviously the query will bias the results, but I do believe this is true.
But there is a big difference between smoking and nicotine.
There is no evidence that I am aware of that supports it otherwise improving cognition, but for many people anxiolytics will behave like nootropics (and indeed are sometimes listed as one!)
So I’m changing that. I’m doing a complete sober month, after which I may go back to drinking occasionally, but only in social activities (once a week or less) and a limit of 3 drinks. So far I’m on track and I don’t miss it anymore (the first week I did.) It’s not worth the downside to me.
https://www.reddit.com/r/KitchenConfidential/comments/10my22...
Not just drinking booze, but how/what you drink. Imagine all that sludge passing into your system and the effect it has on you.
> My father shook his head.
> “What if two people told you?”
> Another shake.
> Ben leaned forward on his stump. “What if a dozen people told you, with perfect earnestness, that shamble-men were out in the fields, eating—”
> “Of course I wouldn’t believe them,” my father said, irritated. “It’s ridiculous.”
> “Of course it is,” Ben agreed, raising a finger. “But the real question is this: Would you go into the woods?”
— Patrick Rothfluss, The Name of the Wind