…OK, that’s too dismissive. I do know that certain web apps and sites have legitimate uses for push notifications.
But I encounter these far, far more often on news sites, where I profoundly do not want notifications, ever.
Probably too convoluted of a “power user” setting for Apple to consider, but I would rather have a very strict opt-in whitelist where I proactively enter sites where I actually do want notifications.
I think this is a big step towards more PWA support. Would love a world where the alternative to building native was just building a PWA instead of building to some other framework that only exists as an abstraction to interact with a few specific platforms.
That being said, I definitely hope it's off by default
> where I proactively enter sites where I actually do want notifications.
Isn't this how it works in Firefox/Chrome right now? I routinely get prompts from websites asking for push notification permission, which I always deny. Can't imagine Safari not doing the same thing.
Safari goes beyond Firefox and Chrome here, making the sane choice to only let you show a notifications permission prompt in response to a click. That alone makes it considerably better than what we're subjected to today with permission prompts showing on page load.
All the denied sites shitting up my notification-apps list with noise isn't welcome, either.
The whole thing's a mis-feature. If it must exist at all, sites shouldn't be able to prompt for it, but simply advertise the functionality and let browsers add a little button or something for the user to actively engage with if they want to see a permissions prompt. Like the way browsers used to handle sites that advertised RSS feeds.
I know it might be year or more after this releases that this will be actually usable (due to adoption) but I cannot wait for this. I hate having to do math/calculations based on viewport height/width to decide how a container should behave at different sizes. There are just so many things that have to be taken into account and all your math/logic falls apart when you change almost anything else that affects the container.
As a Chrome apologist really this pisses me off but I've been waiting for this forever and applaud the team (especially if they beat Chrome to landing this in a stable release)
This is the go to button for all kinds of functionality, not just sharing. It's weird that Apple decided to cram everything there, but I'm thinking people are now used to just having everything there.
On a personal level I'd rather not have any more banners on top of half a dozen or so that already plague a typical website.
You need to explicitly opt into location access. The site you use for tracking your run shouldn't stop working because your phone went to sleep.
Sites already do "wake lock" by playing videos they you can't see. How many times have you tried to read a recipe and your phone shuts off while your hands are covered in flour, or you need to keep tapping your iPad screen while watching sports scores or election results?
These are both incredibly useful APIs that you probably would enjoy if you didn't dismiss them outright.
It’s so strange to see how many of these features not in Safari Tech Preview.
I’m so confused why Safari Tech Preview exists. It’s seems like features in Preview rarely graduate to mainline Safari - yet mainline Safari will get features that were never tested in Preview.
Tech Preview is typically a preview of what's coming up for Safari on the current version of macOS. So Tech Preview doesn't 'spoil' the major OS releases and I imagine it's also not really technically possible given the integration between Safari and the OS. Most major OS releases come with things that Safari makes use of.
I’ve had to opposite experience as someone who’s worked extensively with platforms that utilize webviews, when Safari 15 released it broke a lot of WebGL things with their shift to using Metal and all I can say to users that are experiencing problems is update your OS or disable the experimental feature to use Metal with Safari, which both feel like awful answers. Safari has become the modern IE in my mind.
Web push whilst great for developers and some use cases has also meant dealing with spam and user hostile behaviour. I have 50+ websites that I have to block from sending me web push notifications. It's yet another thing making the web less enjoyable.
Likewise alternative app stores mean that I will inevitably have dozens of companies to deal with for refunds, subscription cancellations etc. And many of them will be driven by the need to make money from the store and not the interests of end users.
And yet I have many, many App Store "apps" that are mere webviews, and the only reason I keep them is because the website can't send me notifications (e.g.: order status).
Plus, web notifications means I can scrap all of those "send notifications through me" apps you'd use for scripts, which all ended up costing subscription fees.
> I’ll never understand why people don’t want choices and want their tech to be intentionally limited.
Because there's always a limitation. For instance, if I want to go to most websites with Javascript off, they just don't work. That's a limitation. Limiting my tech keeps bad actors from abusing it. Frankly, every feature has good and bad uses, and sometimes the bad outweighs the good. For instance, I have no real good use case for a website accessing my location, camera, motion sensors, etc.
Could some apps be developed and served via PWA this way? Sure. But is it far more likely to be used for ad-tech? Also sure.
And I say this as someone who made a PWA and cannot deploy it to my own phone because it needs features that aren't supported. A small price to help wall off bad actors. Even though my PWA is only deployed to machines I control and I am not a bad actor to myself.
Was hoping to see WebXR and WebGPU show up, these two technologies are going to allow an alternative distribution channel for game and app developers, which comprises the vast majority of Apple's services revenue from their app store tax.
Readit News
> "look for Web Push for iOS and iPadOS in 2023."
…OK, that’s too dismissive. I do know that certain web apps and sites have legitimate uses for push notifications.
But I encounter these far, far more often on news sites, where I profoundly do not want notifications, ever.
Probably too convoluted of a “power user” setting for Apple to consider, but I would rather have a very strict opt-in whitelist where I proactively enter sites where I actually do want notifications.
That being said, I definitely hope it's off by default
I'd rather go to the website, enable notifications, and never install any app.
Isn't this how it works in Firefox/Chrome right now? I routinely get prompts from websites asking for push notification permission, which I always deny. Can't imagine Safari not doing the same thing.
Anyway, I look forward to every shitty site asking for permission to send notifications adding to the trillions of requests a year...
The whole thing's a mis-feature. If it must exist at all, sites shouldn't be able to prompt for it, but simply advertise the functionality and let browsers add a little button or something for the user to actively engage with if they want to see a permissions prompt. Like the way browsers used to handle sites that advertised RSS feeds.
There's a flag in Chrome. It seems to have landed in early December. https://chromestatus.com/feature/6525308435955712
* controllable PWA install prompt
* Keep GPS working after screen lock or app change and then return
* Wake lock
The PWA install rate on iOS is abysmal for this reason.
On a personal level I'd rather not have any more banners on top of half a dozen or so that already plague a typical website.
No website should have that level of access to my device.
Sites already do "wake lock" by playing videos they you can't see. How many times have you tried to read a recipe and your phone shuts off while your hands are covered in flour, or you need to keep tapping your iPad screen while watching sports scores or election results?
These are both incredibly useful APIs that you probably would enjoy if you didn't dismiss them outright.
I’m so confused why Safari Tech Preview exists. It’s seems like features in Preview rarely graduate to mainline Safari - yet mainline Safari will get features that were never tested in Preview.
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Safari messes up rendering engine all the time and creates bugs in many websites.
Usually fixes are fast, but it will take ages to get the fix to iOS update.
The flag for web push has been available, albeit non functional since 15.3.
Apple needs to hurry and simply allow for alternative app stores as well.
Web push whilst great for developers and some use cases has also meant dealing with spam and user hostile behaviour. I have 50+ websites that I have to block from sending me web push notifications. It's yet another thing making the web less enjoyable.
Likewise alternative app stores mean that I will inevitably have dozens of companies to deal with for refunds, subscription cancellations etc. And many of them will be driven by the need to make money from the store and not the interests of end users.
Plus, web notifications means I can scrap all of those "send notifications through me" apps you'd use for scripts, which all ended up costing subscription fees.
Because there's always a limitation. For instance, if I want to go to most websites with Javascript off, they just don't work. That's a limitation. Limiting my tech keeps bad actors from abusing it. Frankly, every feature has good and bad uses, and sometimes the bad outweighs the good. For instance, I have no real good use case for a website accessing my location, camera, motion sensors, etc.
Could some apps be developed and served via PWA this way? Sure. But is it far more likely to be used for ad-tech? Also sure.
And I say this as someone who made a PWA and cannot deploy it to my own phone because it needs features that aren't supported. A small price to help wall off bad actors. Even though my PWA is only deployed to machines I control and I am not a bad actor to myself.
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