While an accomplishment no doubt, the utility and difficulty of achieving orbital speeds is not even in the same ballpark as simply flying above the Karman line.
I used to think differently also but then I learned from KSP how incredibly more difficult achieving orbital velocity(and surviving deceleration from such) is than simply going up and back down.
New Shepard looks like an orbit rocket but is not even close in cabability. SpaceShipTwo would burn up on re-entry if it ever reached orbital speeds.
Years ago when they took the X-prize it was explained as something groundbreaking how they folded the wings for re-entry. I, along with probably the vast majority of the public, equated this re-entry to the same re-entry that the Space Shuttle experiences and felt this was some monumental achievement and advancement of the art.
Again, not to belittle the accomplishment, as it is definitely in an elite realm, but not even close to what is accomplished by Boeing, Lockheed, NASA, SpaceX, and all the other entities actually achieving orbit.
Back in 2003 when SSO went to 100km, landed, then did it again a couple of weeks later, it was an amazing accomplishment.
18 years later notsomuch. SpaceX have eclipsed it with the F9 and Crew Dragon, let alone the progress they're making on starship.
Virgin Orbit is interesting though. Electron is good too. F9 is great. Starship will be shocking if it works. Bezos and Branson though? It's nearer youtuber stuff than grown up rockets.
> SpaceShipTwo would burn up on re-entry if it ever reached orbital speeds
Our biggest problem with space is having engines good enough. We have nothing that comes close to being remotely adequate.
With a decent sci-fi-grade engine, we don't need to use the atmosphere to turn speed into heat - we can just point the engine in the right direction and step on it until we get a manageable speed, then point it down to slow the fall.
> The promise of suborbital tourism is that it could expand space access to many, many more people.
Sure. I mean the 0.0001%ers. Yay for them. So while they're slapping each others' backs, there are people who are just trying to do their best to feed their family. These "accomplishments" mean nothing to them.
And this billionaire worshiping really needs to just end. It's so pathetic.
People have been protesting space launches since the Apollo programs. It really adds nothing to the discussion to say “but other people have x problems.” We know. If it was necessary for 100% of humanity to be on equal footing in order for technology to progress we’d still be living in the stone age.
I think you missed the point of that commenter's rant, understandably though.
A majority of people (these days) see the benefit for a wide spectrum of folks this modern space race is producing. What no one gives a shit about is the ego driven, "I was first" billionaire crap that the media is focused on. It's like people who post, "first" on youtube videos. Sure, helps the video's algorithm stance a bit, but a useless attempt to feel important over something silly is annoying as hell.
I'm not saying we shouldn't have any space programs, but given the urgency of climate change who in their right mind thinks space tourism for the masses is a good idea?
Billionaire worship is indeed pathetic but these nuckleheads literally drive down costs so the rest of us knuckleheads can do a miserable family subby during the long summer years when Earth is scorching hot - literally on fire - due to climate change.
I think you are missing an important distinction here: when the first planes got commercialised, even the first passenger flights weren't just amusement rides. They were expensive, sure, but they served a legit purpose.
The same is true to an even greater degree for mobile phones.
Joy rides to the edge of space however are neither new (Dennis Tito went all the way to the ISS back in 2001 and jet planes to the upper stratosphere could be booked for decades as well) nor in any way pushing progress.
Nonsense like this doesn't have to be stopped - everyone's free to spend their money however they wish - it's the glorification of the ultra-rich and their playthings (especially in the face of pending global ecological and social collapse) that's is being criticized.
The whole livestream was cringe-inducing, but maybe that's because I'm a peasant and their target market was the ticket holders (AFAIK you can already give Branson your money in exchange for a promise that some day you can experience what he experienced), they even had an interview with 2 random folks at the after-party, who were there because they plan to go up. Of course the interview didn't bring any insights other than "Rich person is excited she is going to go on a rocket".
There are different rules for non employees versus employees, but Virgin received permission to fly non employees a few days ago. (Afaict Branson is not an employee)
These non-orbital flights will be a footnote to the SpaceX chapter in history. In another decade humans will be hauling massive payloads to orbit, building on the Moon, Mars, in orbit, etc.
If you're referring to stemming climate change, you won't succeed. I doubt anyone will. Modern society depends on manufacturing, food, and travel, and nobody will give it up. It's a steep fitness landscape and doesn't really work because someone "breaking the rules" will have a substantially easier time.
Climate change prevention is a meme for rich countries. It's an unwinnable battle.
I'm not saying we shouldn't be paying attention. We absolutely should. But humans follow gradient ascent and won't be willing to handicap every area of life to make modest gains on the climate front.
Paper straws don't even make a dent.
It's happening, and we'll just have to adapt. Sucks immeasurably for the current biodiversity, but life has adapted to much warmer climate in the past. We should catalog what we can while we can.
To address your comment, I think you'll find greater success in extending the lives of rich and powerful people. Once they realize there's a long term ahead, they'll adjust their thinking and time horizons.
I'm less worried about current biodiversity than I am about the risk of significant population centers becoming uninhabitable over the coming decades. Some due to inundation, others because human bodies can survive high heat or high humidity, but not both a the same time.
It seems potentially worthwhile to fight a figurative battle for stemming climate change in order to try and reduce the risk of setting off a chain of events that could lead to a literal war.
That said, I suspect that fretting about space tourism also wouldn't make much of a dent. Maybe more than worrying about straws, but I bet we would get a lot more out of, e.g., allowing the real price of meat to rise back up to what it was 50 years ago.
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While an accomplishment no doubt, the utility and difficulty of achieving orbital speeds is not even in the same ballpark as simply flying above the Karman line.
I used to think differently also but then I learned from KSP how incredibly more difficult achieving orbital velocity(and surviving deceleration from such) is than simply going up and back down.
New Shepard looks like an orbit rocket but is not even close in cabability. SpaceShipTwo would burn up on re-entry if it ever reached orbital speeds.
Years ago when they took the X-prize it was explained as something groundbreaking how they folded the wings for re-entry. I, along with probably the vast majority of the public, equated this re-entry to the same re-entry that the Space Shuttle experiences and felt this was some monumental achievement and advancement of the art.
Again, not to belittle the accomplishment, as it is definitely in an elite realm, but not even close to what is accomplished by Boeing, Lockheed, NASA, SpaceX, and all the other entities actually achieving orbit.
18 years later notsomuch. SpaceX have eclipsed it with the F9 and Crew Dragon, let alone the progress they're making on starship.
Virgin Orbit is interesting though. Electron is good too. F9 is great. Starship will be shocking if it works. Bezos and Branson though? It's nearer youtuber stuff than grown up rockets.
Make that days - 29 September and 4 October 2004.
Our biggest problem with space is having engines good enough. We have nothing that comes close to being remotely adequate.
With a decent sci-fi-grade engine, we don't need to use the atmosphere to turn speed into heat - we can just point the engine in the right direction and step on it until we get a manageable speed, then point it down to slow the fall.
Again, nothing we have comes even close to this.
Sure. I mean the 0.0001%ers. Yay for them. So while they're slapping each others' backs, there are people who are just trying to do their best to feed their family. These "accomplishments" mean nothing to them.
And this billionaire worshiping really needs to just end. It's so pathetic.
I. Don’t. Care.
Space is cool.
A majority of people (these days) see the benefit for a wide spectrum of folks this modern space race is producing. What no one gives a shit about is the ego driven, "I was first" billionaire crap that the media is focused on. It's like people who post, "first" on youtube videos. Sure, helps the video's algorithm stance a bit, but a useless attempt to feel important over something silly is annoying as hell.
Noted.
The same is true to an even greater degree for mobile phones.
Joy rides to the edge of space however are neither new (Dennis Tito went all the way to the ISS back in 2001 and jet planes to the upper stratosphere could be booked for decades as well) nor in any way pushing progress.
Nonsense like this doesn't have to be stopped - everyone's free to spend their money however they wish - it's the glorification of the ultra-rich and their playthings (especially in the face of pending global ecological and social collapse) that's is being criticized.
Deleted Comment
Is there a regulatory reason that everybody on board had to be some kind of specialist?
If Jeff Bezos were testing a new Amazon product, would he not be a specialist evaluating the customer experience?
My guess is that it's an insurance thing.
Dead Comment
Conan summed it up nicely...
"I dream of a day when space travel is available not only to billionaires, but to any person with a net worth of over $500 million."
[1] https://twitter.com/ConanOBrien/status/1415372778358951936
Climate change prevention is a meme for rich countries. It's an unwinnable battle.
I'm not saying we shouldn't be paying attention. We absolutely should. But humans follow gradient ascent and won't be willing to handicap every area of life to make modest gains on the climate front.
Paper straws don't even make a dent.
It's happening, and we'll just have to adapt. Sucks immeasurably for the current biodiversity, but life has adapted to much warmer climate in the past. We should catalog what we can while we can.
To address your comment, I think you'll find greater success in extending the lives of rich and powerful people. Once they realize there's a long term ahead, they'll adjust their thinking and time horizons.
It seems potentially worthwhile to fight a figurative battle for stemming climate change in order to try and reduce the risk of setting off a chain of events that could lead to a literal war.
That said, I suspect that fretting about space tourism also wouldn't make much of a dent. Maybe more than worrying about straws, but I bet we would get a lot more out of, e.g., allowing the real price of meat to rise back up to what it was 50 years ago.
Dead Comment
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