“Freedom has many difficulties and democracy is not perfect, but we have never had to put a wall up to keep our people in.” JFK, Berlin.
Obviously this situation in Belarus is a simple legal restriction and not a wall, but I’ve long thought that a sensible constitutional guarantee would be the right to leave the country at any time.
> I’ve long thought that a sensible constitutional guarantee would be the right to leave the country at any time.
In totalitarian regimes, constitutions aren't worth the pixels they are printed on. Rights guaranteed by laws must be enforced by the judiciary and the executive. But that only happens if (1) cases actually reach a court, (2) that court is independent, and (3) the executive is willing to enforce the court's decisions.
The border between Belarus and Poland is the former border between Soviet Union and Poland, its infrastructure beats whatever Trump wanted to do with the Wall. Crossing it illegally is close to impossible.
Borders with Lithuania, Russia and Ukraine are a bit more leaky, but one has to be physically fit and logistically prepared to cross, and there is still a risk of being caught. And then what about kids and elders?
So, this is not a legal restriction, but a real ban.
Border with Russia? There is no border control at all. We have a union state with Belarus. Belarusian citizens can live here, work, get free education and healthcare without any restrictions or special permits they have same rights as Russian citizens.
And on topic I don't know what's happening but it was the west first which closed it's airports for Belarusian planes. What's even the point of such sanctions? Officials are not affected by that at all. To punish commercial companies? Ordinary citizens? If anything such sanctions only make authoritarian leaders even more popular(at least among the kind of people which already supported them) and consolidate society against western hypocrisy.
I'm in not a supporter of such leaders but the whole European reaction to that incident can be easily turned into propaganda against the west and you know they do have a point. Because there were several similar situations and there were no reaction AT ALL.
And I don't live in Belarus but I have impression that Lukashenko is really popular there. Not among youth or some educated people, but among workers and farmers. When other ex-ussr countries seen total collapse of industry and social guaranties factories continued to work. I consume products they produce daily, I even have some clothes made there. Yes it's an authoritarian country but it's not some dystopia. It's a nice clean country with functioning institutions and very nice polite and hardworking people. Maybe it would be better with other kind of government idk. And btw from Russian state perspective Lukashenko is not the best "partner" he is very sneaky and two-faced and often "betrays" Russian state on important issues. And as a Russian taxpayer I don't like much that my taxes would go again to fund his little authoritarian paradise.
> The border between Belarus and Poland is the former border between Soviet Union and Poland, its infrastructure beats whatever Trump wanted to do with the Wall. Crossing it illegally is close to impossible.
Interesting, it mostly runs along arbitrary forest paths etc, not major rivers or mountain ranges - not naturally easy to police.
I once stayed in a cottage in the Bialowieza forest (one of few bits of primeval forest in Europe). The cottage was at a clearing, and the other side of the clearing was in Belarus.
We never got any trouble for it, but it wasn’t rare to have border patrol appear out of nowhere and kindly enquire what you’re doing.
I am from Belarus and I've always been impressed by the story of the Berlin Wall. And it's my dream that our wall will fall too. It is impossible to take it anymore...
So here I was wondering, why there is not a single article about this in Russian info-sphere. Apparently these restrictions were in action for quite some time [0].
seems like a desperation move. It's been a long while since I read "The Dictator's Handbook", but I'm guessing Lukashenko won't be free/alive too much longer?
Sadly, regimes can hold on to power way beyond the point where the whole society is hostile to them. Poland had major protests against the communist regime in 1956, 1968 and throughout 1980s (plus various inbetween), but really the regime fell when (a) it literally went bankrupt, (b) USSR was not in a position to invade, like it did with Czechoslovakia before. And even then it was touch-and-go.
There were multiple reports of Lithuanian citizens with Belarusian residence permits being denied passage by Belarusian border guards. So yes, the situation is that bad. And I wonder why NATO says nothing about it. After all, it's their citizens.
Also check this summary if you want more details [0]
While Lukashenko had some support prior to Aug 2020 election, it dropped to <5% at very best following his ruthless attack and torture of citizens and peaceful protestors.
The only people supporting him now are siloviki, i.e. military and police heads who directly benefit from him remaining in power. Although many within the police elites wish him out as well.
Oh, please! I'm from Belarus. It hurts me to hear such words. I know people who support Lukashenko but I'd say it's truly just 3%. We have a lot of evidence that he doesn't have support but they are Junta. And it's not just words. I could go to jail for this message... Read it https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57320591
By all reasonable measures, he got 3% support in the recent elections. Around 5mln people voted, which gives 150,000 who voted for him. This is pretty much the current "elite", that is, people with a slightly higher than average life quality: local officials, school heads, upper management at state-owned organisations, security services, high-ranking officers... and their families.
> It is similar I think to the situation in the US where poor people will sometimes vote against their financial interests to support an identity.
I would like you to pause there for a moment and suspend what you already know to be true and factual. Just consider that this analysis does not explain the popularity of Republicans among the rural poor, but it does allow Democrats to explain this inconvenient fact away.
The sad reality is that neither party actually cares for the poor and working class, but at least the Republicans are honest about it. The rural poor generally know this, and this is why Clinton lost. They did not feel her to be an honest person.
Belarusians had a good chance to overthrow these maniacs just a few months ago. Instead, they chose to protest softly and not make it a fierce standoff "like it was in Ukraine". Now they pay a price. I'm not judging Belarusians. Freedom is hard.
> And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.
-- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Apropos to nothing, but it feels like mainstream Western media shut up pretty quick about Myanmar when it became evident that peaceful protest wasn't a viable strategy.
Western Governments have done the same thing to their own citizenry for over a year... Melbourne, Australia is now in its 4th lockdown, a city of 5 million people, based on 50 positive PCR test results over the past week.
Australian citizens generally cannot leave their country either, for over a year.
Given that Belarus had no COVID lockdowns or restrictions, people there have enjoyed comparatively more freedom over the past year compared to the average Western citizen.
The West also takes down airliners in attempts to apprehend journalists. If you have the wrong political opinions, you can lose your job, and be unpersoned by corporate groups with ties to the Government.
The West no longer has the moral high ground and we should be aware of the propaganda levels of the world we are now living in.
I'm not defending Russia or Belarus. They are mafia states. They are just less sophisticated operators without the global media on their side.
Oh, dear! Nobody cares about covid here. Everything works as usual and we have no idea how many people died. Funeral tax profits increased by more than 50%. Government closed the border because we want to escape. The state takes revenge for our protests. And it’s impossible to describe the whole situation but political prisoners die in prison or commit suicide. Today, for example, one guy tried to cut his throat right in court https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57320591
Travel restrictions in the west enjoy wide support and are in response to a global health emergency, not spurious political reasons put in place by someone who appears to be an illegitimate leader.
Yeah, no. Australia is not Belarus. The comparison is absurd. Just, stop.
Scroll through the timeline of these Belarusians, who are literally risking their lives by exposing and combating these situations. Really take some time to grasp the situation there.
Note that this has been happening since at least May 30th as reported by people working in Poland and Lithuania who had gone to visit their family in Belarus for the weekend.
Readit News
Obviously this situation in Belarus is a simple legal restriction and not a wall, but I’ve long thought that a sensible constitutional guarantee would be the right to leave the country at any time.
In totalitarian regimes, constitutions aren't worth the pixels they are printed on. Rights guaranteed by laws must be enforced by the judiciary and the executive. But that only happens if (1) cases actually reach a court, (2) that court is independent, and (3) the executive is willing to enforce the court's decisions.
Indeed, according to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Belarus, "Citizens [...] have the right to protest against the government." Problem solved?
Borders with Lithuania, Russia and Ukraine are a bit more leaky, but one has to be physically fit and logistically prepared to cross, and there is still a risk of being caught. And then what about kids and elders?
So, this is not a legal restriction, but a real ban.
Interesting, it mostly runs along arbitrary forest paths etc, not major rivers or mountain ranges - not naturally easy to police.
I once stayed in a cottage in the Bialowieza forest (one of few bits of primeval forest in Europe). The cottage was at a clearing, and the other side of the clearing was in Belarus.
We never got any trouble for it, but it wasn’t rare to have border patrol appear out of nowhere and kindly enquire what you’re doing.
But here we are, making news out of this :)
[0] https://gpk.gov.by/covid-19/
Good luck to the Belarusians though!
Does that mean that people can’t go back to their country of citizenship?
Also check this summary if you want more details [0]
[0] https://telegra.ph/Kak-belorusu-vyehat-iz-strany-nazemnym-pu...
Individual liberty is truly a precious thing.
The current dictator has a lot of supporters, and I mean real supporters, not people “supporting” him at gun point.
It is similar I think to the situation in the US where poor people will sometimes vote against their financial interests to support an identity.
While Lukashenko had some support prior to Aug 2020 election, it dropped to <5% at very best following his ruthless attack and torture of citizens and peaceful protestors.
The only people supporting him now are siloviki, i.e. military and police heads who directly benefit from him remaining in power. Although many within the police elites wish him out as well.
When everyone realises their mistake there is no turning back for several years to come.
He knew that of course, otherwise why did he jailed all the opposition candidates right before elections?
I would like you to pause there for a moment and suspend what you already know to be true and factual. Just consider that this analysis does not explain the popularity of Republicans among the rural poor, but it does allow Democrats to explain this inconvenient fact away.
The sad reality is that neither party actually cares for the poor and working class, but at least the Republicans are honest about it. The rural poor generally know this, and this is why Clinton lost. They did not feel her to be an honest person.
> And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.
-- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Apropos to nothing, but it feels like mainstream Western media shut up pretty quick about Myanmar when it became evident that peaceful protest wasn't a viable strategy.
Australian citizens generally cannot leave their country either, for over a year.
Given that Belarus had no COVID lockdowns or restrictions, people there have enjoyed comparatively more freedom over the past year compared to the average Western citizen.
The West also takes down airliners in attempts to apprehend journalists. If you have the wrong political opinions, you can lose your job, and be unpersoned by corporate groups with ties to the Government.
The West no longer has the moral high ground and we should be aware of the propaganda levels of the world we are now living in.
I'm not defending Russia or Belarus. They are mafia states. They are just less sophisticated operators without the global media on their side.
Travel restrictions in the west enjoy wide support and are in response to a global health emergency, not spurious political reasons put in place by someone who appears to be an illegitimate leader.
Your ‘unpersoned’ comment is laughable.
Scroll through the timeline of these Belarusians, who are literally risking their lives by exposing and combating these situations. Really take some time to grasp the situation there.
https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakovahttps://twitter.com/franakviacorkahttps://mobile.twitter.com/Tsihanouskaya