I think I am one of the few people who enjoys all sorts of coffee.
I have had Espresso in many citys in Italy, all the hip Third Wave coffees, but I can still enjoy a Nespresso, a drip machine, Mokka, Turkish coffee, DeLonghi or Jura type coffee or Aeropress. I even find Starbucks has its own taste.
They all taste different. I just don‘t get the people who insist coffee can not be bitter and Starbucks roast is the devil.
The sneering I get from people who think there is exactly two ways one should enjoy coffee, as super tricked out Espresso, or as mild tea. Seriously.
Yes I have had „good“ coffee. Lots of it. I even had a lot of bad „good“ coffee.
I sometimes have serious nostalgia for good bad coffee and no one will take it away from me!
There's nothing wrong with the taste of Nespresso (it's a little weak for me, but that's personal preference). The reason why coffee pods are awful and need to die is the sheer, disgusting amount of pointless waste they create. Every single cup of coffee requires a small, non-degradable, hard to recycle piece of plastic. Making coffee with a normal espresso machine is so easy. You can learn how to do it in 5 minutes (not barista quality, but at least as good as Nespresso). If you think that cleaning up the mess from a coffee machine is too much work, you are just lazy.
The only benefit I can think of is that you don't need a sink nearby. But in every case where I have seen a Nespresso machine, there is a sink within at most a two minutes walk.
> The reason why coffee pods are awful and need to die is the sheer, disgusting amount of pointless waste they create.
It’s funny how people are so high and mighty about the small stuff and then let the absolutely enormous stuff pass completely. Are you this judgmental about living in a stand alone house vs an apartment in an apartment building? Taking plane trips for vacation?
Or do those bog standard—celebrated even—parts of upper middle class life get a free pass while you sneer down your nose at people that don’t pull their own espresso shots to save a few hundred ounces of plastic a year “for the environment”?
> Making coffee with a normal espresso machine is so easy. You can learn how to do it in 5 minutes (not barista quality, but at least as good as Nespresso)
This is not correct, also keeping in mind that it doesn't exist a "normal" espresso machine - the setup is espresso machine and grinder.
I'm into espresso, and it takes a lot of effort to make consistent shots.
Independently of the quality (to remove the "snob" factor), Nespresso machines are quite consistent. So if one likes the result, they can stick with that and know what they'll get.
Beginners and/or low-end equipment, produce very inconsistent shots. There's nothing inherently wrong, but that adds a crucial dimension in the comparison.
One may prefer potentially worse but consistent espresso (=Nespresso), than potentially better but wildly inconsistent ones (=beginner+low-end semiautomatic/grinder).
Nespresso do have a recycling program[0]. The recycling bags are free and can be dropped off, again for free. I suppose this might differ from country to country, but in the UK what they propose sounds pretty good?
My housemate had a "proper" coffee machine and it was ok for one cup, but it temperamental. If I packed it too tight it wouldn't work. I couldn't reliably get the same result.
It is also very hands on. Nespresso machines let me make 2 within a few minutes while I prepare breakfast. Start warming up machine, milk in frother, cup under nozzle, press start.
Well I don't own a Nespresso for that reason, so I agree. I drink too much coffee at home. I have several options, because I enjoy different kinds of coffee at different times.
However, I see a lot of Nespresso machines in hotels and it somewhat makes sense, because what else could you put there? A decent Jura would be too expensive, a drip coffee maker not "good enough" (see my post). With an espresso machine, you'd also have to provide a grinder and a barista, because no one would want to spend time learning the setup up on a trip.
We like them because you can make one or two cups without wasting a lot of coffee or water.
And unlike other brands, Nespresso pods are made of aluminum, so they can be recycled. In the US, when you order the pods or pick them up in a Nespresso shop, you get a UPS mailer bag. When you use a pod, drop it in the bag. When the bag is full, seal the bag and drop it in a UPS mailbox to recycle the pods with Nespresso. That's something I can't do with the bags from the coffee beans I get in stores here.
This article makes a big deal out of the fact that people don't recycle their pods. I'm not sure why that's Nespresso's fault. At least in the US, it's pretty damn painless.
You cannot really do espresso in 5 minutes practically at home. Heat up the machine, fill water, grind beans all takes time. And you need to do clean up after. It takes 10 minutes on avg
> Every single cup of coffee requires a small, non-degradable, hard to recycle piece of plastic.
I'm not sure if you're just using "Nespresso" as shorthand for "pod-based coffee machine" but the unique thing about the Nespresso system is its use of aluminum (recyclable) pods.
Recycling rates may not be high enough, but that's a marketing/UX problem that can be addressed.
You are right, Nespresso and especially Krups pods are ridiculously wasteful. To put something compostable in a vessel which will take 100s of years to biodegrade feels perverse.
That said if people started to make coffee in espresso machines that would if anything be even more wasteful.
One, most espresso machines sol are the cheap machines. And they are rickety, poorly made, unrepairable and low longevity. You see lots of them at the local household waste center piled up next to other consumer electronics junk. I could see a proliferation of them being a bigger environmental nuisance than pods.
Two, a proper espresso machine takes a fair bit of time to warm up and I wouldn't drink the first shot out of the machine, so they need to be run through a few times, wasting electricity and coffee.
I can see the appeal of Nespresso. I don't personally want one, but their convenience and ingenuity is undeniable. If anything Nestle should double down on ensuring the pods are either compostable or that recycling rates improve markedly.
That, and Nespresso capsules are way overpriced. I owned a Nespresso machine years ago (got it as a present) but couldn't justify the waste. Also, you must order original Nespresso capsules either at the Nespresso shop (of which there's maybe one in every major city at best), or order it online. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but online shopping is no progress for me since it just means I have to wait at home for an unreliable delivery service when I have plenty of shops in walking distance. So when third-party capsules became available, I immediately bought those instead (while they're cheap, they're not nearly as good and varied as original Nespresso capsules, though, IMO). However, one of those third-party capsules melted/stuck in the holder and I had to peel it off using a knife. That of course ruined the machine which now would leak pressure at the place where I used the knife, so I rejoiced and got rid of the machine :)
Whilst the classic Nespresso machines have potential recycling issues, the vertuo line of machines/pods are more favourable.
I was recently given a second-hand Nespresso vertuo machine and I'm very happy with the re-use options.
There are stainless steel refillable pods as well as single-use film lids to apply to emptied pods.
I'm giving the film lids a go first as the stainless steel pods are quite pricey (around £20 each).
I'm able to re-use the pods that came with the machine, refilling with the large supply of ground coffee that I receive as gifts and would otherwise use in a cafetiere.
My stash of bagged pre-ground coffee produces excellent results in the vertuo machine with a good crema on top as good as most coffee shops that I've been to.
With some freshly-ground good quality coffee, a re-usable vertuo pod or two and a vertuo machine you can make barista-quality coffee with zero non-degradable waste.
I don't drink much coffee and a bag of ground coffee would go stale in a week. The pods have a shelf life of months if not years (and because I drink so little coffee the waste created is negligible).
> There's nothing wrong with the taste of Nespresso (it's a little weak for me, but that's personal preference).
I suspect it's the personal preference of a lot of people. Pods typically have 5g of coffee. A typical portafilter basket holds 12..21 grams. It's not a small difference.
I had a nespresso-compatible coffee machine that also accepted its own compostable pods. Moreover there are many machines (including nespresso machines for offices) which work with pads, i.e. pressed coffee wrapped in a paper filter.
Here (the US), Nespresso ships their pods with pre-paid plastic bags for recycling. We fill the bags with our used pods, and every once in awhile drop them off at UPS. Problem solved.
Here, in Norway, the Nespresso and similar pods are aluminium so you just drop them in the metal recycling bin along with other cans and glass. No plastic involved.
Some people get to focused on optimizing everything (must only drink the "best" coffee) and forget that thrre if some value in variety of quality as well.
I enjoy pizza, usually I want the heat pizza I can find. But everyone I've in a while I enjoy a pizza from Domino's as well. Yeah the quality is different, but it's not bad in the sense that it's literally inedible. It's the same reason I enjoy good burgers but also crave McDonald's every so often too. I've bought really good, hard to get beer that was $40 for a 22oz bottle, but I also like a Budweiser every so often too.
Having only the best of everything all the time is not only boring, it's expensive too!
It's a Veblen Good / conspicuous consumption thing, similar to how blindfolded wine experts can't tell the differences between $40 and $100 bottles of wine.
"Wine snobbery" for STEM nerds is craft beer and coffee snobbery.
I am of the believe that if you don't drink the bad coffee you can't appreciate the good one.
For me personally I like any type of coffee, not picky at all. I do mostly drink Turkish because that's what I can make at home. But when here I would just mix the different blends together, not with the purpose of making something special with just too have more coffee
Agreed. I love a good espresso, but enjoy most coffee. My daily home coffee is pour over with freshly ground beans. Can't really beat the flavor/price. But, I also like Starbucks and McDs coffee. If anything, they are both very consistent so you get the same cup when traveling.
Coffee, like many other things, has a lot of different connections to it than just its taste, and that's one of the best parts about it. When I visit home and I can get a cup of Tim Hortons, just walking in give me memories of high school and all the time I've spent inside one of them. Even the taste of 7/11 coffee brings back some memories of my time in Maine when I lived down the road from one.
I read some where once that, despite the quality of a cup of coffee, the thing that will make it the most memorable is the people you're with.
I am with you on that. I grew up on the good old dripper because it was the typical coffee one would drink in France, and moved on to many types of coffee, espresso, nespresso, aeropress, french press, mokka, cold brew stuff, etc. While I don't like their sweet ones, I even like the basic Starbucks americano, and their instant coffee (Via) is on par with a low to medium quality espresso in my opinion, which isn't bad for an instant coffee at all.
I'm in your boat. The tastes good and bad coffees can bring are so diverse. Every few years I even feel a sudden urge to drink a particular instant coffee (Nescafé Gold). The bitters, acids that rise to my nose, a snarky taste with a little bit of burned butter odor. Just great. It reminds me of going on holidays, of rebuilding houses when all you have is hot water and of holiday jobs as a teen. Coffee is a most sentimental drink for me.
I'm with you. I love a carefully crafted single-origin pourover. But I also have a weak spot for 7-11 coffee. Appreciation of the two is not mutually exclusive.
> In 2013, the most recent year it released figures, Nespresso’s revenues totalled $10.8bn.
> In the summer of 2020, buffeted by Covid-19, Nespresso trundles on. In a recent email, a spokesperson reported “mid single-digit growth”
This article has failed to do anything other than convince me that the Nespresso is one of the most impressive products every launched, and has room to take on the US still.
Really, I hate how "single digit growth" is somehow a failure nowadays. Millions of companies everywhere don't even grow year or year - businesses which found their niche, which employ hundreds or thousands of people and which just operate in equilibrium state where everyone goes home paid at the end of the day and it's fine. No one considers those a failure just because their valuation isn't doubling year on year.
If a company isn't growing by at least the equivalent of inflation then it's shrinking, and that can't happen for very long before it can't cover its costs.
Even when inflation is close to zero, interest on debt means that a company that isn't growing won't be able to service it's creditors forever, and it'll fail.
There are plenty of reasons why 'growth at all costs' is a stupid goal, but there does have to be some growth for a business to survive.
You can take the Nespresso machine out of my dead cold hands. It improved my life significantly: no more ground coffee spilling all over, no more cleaning and drying the mocha every day, no more having to worry about the right amount of coffee or water, whether I’m drinking too much, why I didn’t get crema... It’s slightly more expensive than simple mocha but still dramatically cheaper than anything you find in coffee shops (outside Italy at least), and worth the peace of mind. Now they have a saas-like offering so I don’t even have to worry about how much I spend, it’s automatically budgeted and withdrawn and I just make an order every few months.
The only criticism I have is that most of their varieties are not 100% Arabica, and often it’s hard to find out if their “special editions” are. Robusta is bad for your blood pressure, but sadly it’s cheaper so it ends up in most mixes. This said, I think their last batch was almost entirely Arabica flavours so maybe they are improving. If you care, I’ve done a bit of analysis two years ago that covers all classic varieties (I really should update it) at http://blog.pythonaro.com/2018/04/nespresso-blends-comprehen...
(Oh, and fuck Vertuo. I’m happy to read it was an attempt at courting Americans, because from here it looked like just a simple money grab to raise the cost of capsules and maintain exclusivity on the format. No thanks.)
We have one of the ~$400ish red machines at home for 6 years now. It gets used maybe once a week. Every morning we grind beans, and use a French press. We have our normal coffee bean but we love to try different beans. The ritual of making the coffee in the morning is part of the joy I think. Putting the kettle on, the smell of the beans being ground, the smell from pouring the water on the grounds and stirring them. It’s a comfortable part of the morning. It’s a constant in a world that needs it now.
Are you child free? I wake up and just hope for 5 minutes of peace to enjoy a coffee where I can sit, read and drink coffee. Making coffee using a French press would take all that time. Nespresso is a quick thing and I get to enjoy a few minutes of peace before chaos.
No, but teenage now. The French press does not really take much time. Night before going to bed setup kettle and grinder. Get up and go to the kitchen, hit the button on the kettle, hit grind. Dump coffee in press. Water is done in 4 minutes. Pour on coffee, stir. Go grab a shower or the like, come back and press down and pour.
Personally I have a Sage (which is a Breville in the UK) with a built in conical burr grinder.
It grinds from beans and is a semi-automatic machine but it's so quick to use it's not really any slower than using a capsule machine but without the waste capsules.
My favourite coffee brand is Illy and that comes in an easily recyclable aluminium can, so you can avoid the little plastic coffee bags too if you're careful.
It was maybe a little more expensive than a high end Nespresso machine but not much more for a "real" coffee machine.
I have had a few low end Breville machines. The current one is $150 2nd hand model with a burr grinder that meters out an exact dose into the basket. A good hard tamp, and then the espresso shot is also metered out. Easy to steam the milk, as I have a lovely flat white. I can go from woe to go in under 3 minutes.
> When you ordered capsules, you joined the “Club”, which also meant handing over your contact information. Over time, Nespresso gained a huge database of customers it could market to, as well as a way of recording consumer preferences and buying habits. For customers, the club created the sense that you were part of a sophisticated worldwide cabal of corporate espresso lovers. When I first encountered Nespresso, as a student, around 2006, I remember feeling like I was finally part of the global elite everyone kept complaining about. “What Nespresso have done is create a lot of benign bullshit around coffee,” said Rory Sutherland. “But people enjoy the bullshit.”
There’s a lot in there from the author. It’s marketing and building an ecosystem. Surprised this doesn’t happen with other drinks like carbonated water.
Is it only me or I find marketing around "eco-friendly" not genuine and just a ploy to get you to buy their products?
Like you go to Marriott hotels, low and behold there is a sign on the bathroom towel that says "Please help save the planet" by reusing the towel. Sure it helps, but that's not the reason why they put that sign up. It is to save costs of laundry. If they really want to save the planet, how about cutting down private jets for their executives?
It never feels genuine and unless the product/service is directly contributing help to the environment - like an advertisement for a Solar panel company or a Wind Turbine brochure.
Indeed, useful point. Could there be space for a “luxury” carbonated water company that sells on things like differences in carbonation pressure or the place of origin for the gas carbonation? Would be amusing, though wonder if it might work?
I’ve seen a couple comments that nespreso is wasteful. It’s worth pointing out the relatively easy to use capsule recycling and composting program. You fedex bags of used capsules and they recycle and compost then (supposedly)
Each capsule contains 5-7g of coffee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nespresso), so that's roughly 35-50 capsules per 250g bag of ground coffee. Even if the recycling scheme was used by all consumers (highly unlikely) these things are still vastly more resource intensive than alternatives.
To be fair to Nespresso, there are some potential environmental benefits from only boiling the required quantity of water, and reduction of waste coffee (i.e. in the pot and undrunk). It's not easy to determine if these outweigh the waste of the pods themselves.
(I'm no Nespresso shill, I grind and Aeropress - I think my biggest source of waste is on power from boiling too much water)
I would vote for not creating plastic waste in the first time. This is not life saving essential product you cannot live without which you need to produce in mega quantities. What percentage of the capsules is recycled and what percentage ends up in the landfills? Is recycling not energy intensive operation? (Someone even mentioned fedexing used capsules?)
I mean single use plastic shopping bags, plates and cutlery are convenient too... why do we try to reduce them ?
Why do we falsely claim their pods are plastic? Their competitors use plastic and receive no criticism. They do aluminum and a bag drop program and are trashed
Nespresso's machines definitely occupied a cost niche, but were too troublingly wasteful for me. Fellow addicts looking to decapsule-- but not interested in buying a 2k machine which will be killed by scale in 1 year can check out Flair (https://www.flairespresso.com/)
It makes professional grade shots, has no unnecessary waste, and has nothing to really break.
You can buy a high quality nespresso machine for about $100. I agree the capsules are wasteful, but so are lots of other things, such as bottles and cans, cardboard boxes, ziplock bags, driving a car, and flying. What's especially wasteful about nespresso capsules? It seems like another version of straws that's easy to target but doesn't really address root problems with our consume until you drop mentality.
The best set-up for someone who likes espresso is simply a no-frills prosumer espresso machine, a separate good quality grinder, a few other minor things, and some training in dialing in your process. There exist machines that literally do everything including grinding the coffee, but these yield disappointing results.
With regular descaling, backflushing, and sometimes repair or upgrades an espresso machine will easily last more than a decade.
The ones investing in 2k machines would not be using water that causes that kind of scaling, or they can easily have it descaled.
To others, if you are not familiar with espresso, avoid manual espresso machines - even with consistent top quality semi-auto machines good espresso is not easy, let alone adding even more play into it with a lever machine.
I recommend not getting a home espresso machine at all unless you are really into it. Moka pots, pour over, aeropress are all far far easier, much cheaper, and far less finicky. Save the espresso for a trip to your neighborhood cafe instead - they'll make it far better without the hassle.
| Save the espresso for a trip to your neighborhood cafe instead - they'll make it far better without the hassle.
This simply hasn't been born out by my experience making espresso at home. By spending about $7-800 on a Rancilio Silvia and a Baratza Vario, and dialing in my process a bit, I'm able to consistently pull as-good or better shots than the premium coffee places around me (LAX). Granted, you have to be detail oriented to be consistently good, but once you've figured out the variables, it's just process.
This whole experience has taught me that a multi-thousand dollar HE machine is truly only as good as the person behind the portafilter.
I think it's pretty easy to get a good, consistent espresso from something like a cheap home Breville/Sage/Solis machine.
You don't really need to be very "into it" for that. Just buy good beans and adjust the grinder as per the instructions and feedback either from the timer or pressure gauge.
They're just a few hundred bucks for a decent single boiler machine.
Too many cafes just service customers wanting milk based coffee these days to really care about espresso drinking customers. IMHO that's why they have these weird "espresso" roasts which are really just over-roasted or overly acidic (to my pallet) "green" roasts.
Just get a decent medium roast, a conical burr grinder (can be built into the machine) and you're good to go.
> avoid manual espresso machines - even with consistent top quality semi-auto machines good espresso is not easy
I was always able to get something I enjoyed drinking out of an entry level, single boiler, home espresso machine. It was also fun and meditative learning the skill and doing the routine.
I'd take a less than perfect home espresso over just endless other brewed methods. I love an occasional pour-over, but not every day.
Everyone always says to avoid it, and that's true if you can't envisage doing it a couple of times a day (in which case, the cost and kitchen workspace requirements make it silly), but personally, I'd take an 80% espresso at home over not.
My partner and I have both worked as baristas in Melbourne, Australia (where the quality expectation is high) and have experience with all manner of 20,000 dollar espresso machines.
We still swear by our Moka pot for home coffee. It's so much less finicky and combined with a hand-grinder is ridiculously portable. Easy to throw into a backpack when you're travelling!
This sounds a bit too negative to me; probably biased as I am because I have a Cafelat Robot manual machine, but still: making an espresso which is of the same rich taste and quality as a 5k+ machine with said manual machine is not really that hard or very finicky (imo). Grind, put in basket, boil water and in the meantime level coffee in basket and put metal screen on top, once water boils pour in basket, then make the espresso. Ok it's a process, but apart from there being few more steps than filter/French/moka/... and requiring some short physical activity it doesn't take that long. I admit that with every new bean I try it takes one or 2 suboptimal cups to tune grind setting but from then on it's spot on.
Agreed, espresso is not easy. However, I'd say for anyone who has been interested in the varieties of ways to make coffee, it is worth trying out. I spent probably $700 buying a decent pre-owned grinder and semi-automatic a few years ago and haven't looked back. After a few months work, I could easily make a better espresso drink (maybe not the perfect double-shot) than many of the local coffee shops around Boston. You'll impress your spouse and your guests too.
Anyway, I agree it's tricky and not for everyone ... just came here to tell others it might be worth a try. I'm really glad I went for it.
This looks nice and I bet with a little bit of experience you can make a great coffee. It's not as convenient as capsules though. The capsule machines just takes two seconds to pop in a capsule and once you press the button it's all automatic.
I find it makes better espresso than a 2k automatic machine. A typical electric kettle next to it does the trick, takes the same amount of time and is easy to fill.
It absolutely is a lil messier and more work, but there's something to the ritual of it.
The main problem with home espresso is not the machine. Professional machines are expensive because they are specced to make shots in quick succession and also handle a lot of shots before requiring service, a machine for a couple shots per day and 5+ years life can be made for couple hundred bucks or less.
The grind is the problem that has not been solved yet. You need uniform and adjustable grind size and there is no cheap way to make a mill for that. Entry level espresso grinders are starting with hand-cranked ones at $200+, a decent electric one will be at least $500 and the good one will be $1000+. Just the replacement burrs for mine are $250 and these are not some one-off hipster burrs, they are mass-produced for commercial machines. Making precise shapes out of hard steel is very expensive.
So there are essentially two solutions for at home espresso-like drink: various pods (ESE is apparently from 70s and was designed for commercial use, I imagine very light one) and machines with a pressure valve on the exit from the portafilter (essentially all machines you can buy in department stores), those take pre-ground coffee and use the exit valve to create espresso-like "crema". It's not espresso because there is no noticeable pressure difference over and under the grounds and espresso needs the layer of coffee to provide enough resistance to get to 7-9 bars on top of it. I think some pod systems could be more like espresso, at least in principle.
Just curious, how is this different from a Bialetti apart from the design? I'm looking on the website and can't seem to find a description of how it produces pressure and how much.
A real espresso machine produces 8-9 bars of pressure for extraction, and a Bialetti is about 2 bars, so it's not technically espresso.
Recycling should be a last resort, and it's a marketing effort by Nespresso to make them seem cleaner than they are. In reality, they sell small dose (5g) coffee in plastic lined aluminium, in non-recyclable coated cardboard.
Despite their claims of how green they are, only 30% of their pods are recycled [0]
I like the concept of Nespresso but as others have said the waste is the problem. You have to wonder though it seems like a simple problem to solve. In my region a local businessman used potato starch to make "paper" plates. If Nespresso could make biodegradable pod cases that would solve the waste problem.
This article is timely for me I've only just discovered how to make great coffee. I've had a French press and a cheap coffee bean grinder for decades. With a little knowledge I finally made a really good cup of coffee. Nabob beans $4 and a few minutes makes great coffee. It's so great that I went from milky lattes and double-doubles to drinking it black. It's amazing how much a tiny bit of milk or sugar muffles the taste great coffee.
30g coffee beans freshly ground, 450g water, 5 minute brew. It's so simple with a French press no filters no electricity no pressurized steam.
As a french person, I wasn't aware of what was a "French press".
With the help of Google I've seen that I perfectly know what it is, but we don't call it that way here and furthermore it's not a popular way of making coffee.
Got to New York for the first time, had awful jet lag, found a place for breakfast at 5:30 in the morning. Asked for Americano coffee. The whole diner made big eyes, like "what do you mean?!".
I spent a solid week looking for one in Martinique. I was finally told that they are on occasion refereed to as Italian Presses, but am still unsure if this was true.
Readit News
I have had Espresso in many citys in Italy, all the hip Third Wave coffees, but I can still enjoy a Nespresso, a drip machine, Mokka, Turkish coffee, DeLonghi or Jura type coffee or Aeropress. I even find Starbucks has its own taste.
They all taste different. I just don‘t get the people who insist coffee can not be bitter and Starbucks roast is the devil.
The sneering I get from people who think there is exactly two ways one should enjoy coffee, as super tricked out Espresso, or as mild tea. Seriously.
Yes I have had „good“ coffee. Lots of it. I even had a lot of bad „good“ coffee.
I sometimes have serious nostalgia for good bad coffee and no one will take it away from me!
The only benefit I can think of is that you don't need a sink nearby. But in every case where I have seen a Nespresso machine, there is a sink within at most a two minutes walk.
It’s funny how people are so high and mighty about the small stuff and then let the absolutely enormous stuff pass completely. Are you this judgmental about living in a stand alone house vs an apartment in an apartment building? Taking plane trips for vacation?
Or do those bog standard—celebrated even—parts of upper middle class life get a free pass while you sneer down your nose at people that don’t pull their own espresso shots to save a few hundred ounces of plastic a year “for the environment”?
This is not correct, also keeping in mind that it doesn't exist a "normal" espresso machine - the setup is espresso machine and grinder.
I'm into espresso, and it takes a lot of effort to make consistent shots.
Independently of the quality (to remove the "snob" factor), Nespresso machines are quite consistent. So if one likes the result, they can stick with that and know what they'll get.
Beginners and/or low-end equipment, produce very inconsistent shots. There's nothing inherently wrong, but that adds a crucial dimension in the comparison.
One may prefer potentially worse but consistent espresso (=Nespresso), than potentially better but wildly inconsistent ones (=beginner+low-end semiautomatic/grinder).
My housemate had a "proper" coffee machine and it was ok for one cup, but it temperamental. If I packed it too tight it wouldn't work. I couldn't reliably get the same result.
It is also very hands on. Nespresso machines let me make 2 within a few minutes while I prepare breakfast. Start warming up machine, milk in frother, cup under nozzle, press start.
[0] https://www.nespresso.com/uk/en/recycling-initiatives?name=n...
However, I see a lot of Nespresso machines in hotels and it somewhat makes sense, because what else could you put there? A decent Jura would be too expensive, a drip coffee maker not "good enough" (see my post). With an espresso machine, you'd also have to provide a grinder and a barista, because no one would want to spend time learning the setup up on a trip.
And unlike other brands, Nespresso pods are made of aluminum, so they can be recycled. In the US, when you order the pods or pick them up in a Nespresso shop, you get a UPS mailer bag. When you use a pod, drop it in the bag. When the bag is full, seal the bag and drop it in a UPS mailbox to recycle the pods with Nespresso. That's something I can't do with the bags from the coffee beans I get in stores here.
This article makes a big deal out of the fact that people don't recycle their pods. I'm not sure why that's Nespresso's fault. At least in the US, it's pretty damn painless.
Erm... all nespressos are aluminium.
I'm not sure if you're just using "Nespresso" as shorthand for "pod-based coffee machine" but the unique thing about the Nespresso system is its use of aluminum (recyclable) pods.
Recycling rates may not be high enough, but that's a marketing/UX problem that can be addressed.
That said if people started to make coffee in espresso machines that would if anything be even more wasteful.
One, most espresso machines sol are the cheap machines. And they are rickety, poorly made, unrepairable and low longevity. You see lots of them at the local household waste center piled up next to other consumer electronics junk. I could see a proliferation of them being a bigger environmental nuisance than pods.
Two, a proper espresso machine takes a fair bit of time to warm up and I wouldn't drink the first shot out of the machine, so they need to be run through a few times, wasting electricity and coffee.
I can see the appeal of Nespresso. I don't personally want one, but their convenience and ingenuity is undeniable. If anything Nestle should double down on ensuring the pods are either compostable or that recycling rates improve markedly.
I was recently given a second-hand Nespresso vertuo machine and I'm very happy with the re-use options.
There are stainless steel refillable pods as well as single-use film lids to apply to emptied pods.
I'm giving the film lids a go first as the stainless steel pods are quite pricey (around £20 each).
I'm able to re-use the pods that came with the machine, refilling with the large supply of ground coffee that I receive as gifts and would otherwise use in a cafetiere.
My stash of bagged pre-ground coffee produces excellent results in the vertuo machine with a good crema on top as good as most coffee shops that I've been to.
With some freshly-ground good quality coffee, a re-usable vertuo pod or two and a vertuo machine you can make barista-quality coffee with zero non-degradable waste.
I suspect it's the personal preference of a lot of people. Pods typically have 5g of coffee. A typical portafilter basket holds 12..21 grams. It's not a small difference.
Have you tried the 12 and 13 out of 10 intensity capsules?
I enjoy pizza, usually I want the heat pizza I can find. But everyone I've in a while I enjoy a pizza from Domino's as well. Yeah the quality is different, but it's not bad in the sense that it's literally inedible. It's the same reason I enjoy good burgers but also crave McDonald's every so often too. I've bought really good, hard to get beer that was $40 for a 22oz bottle, but I also like a Budweiser every so often too.
Having only the best of everything all the time is not only boring, it's expensive too!
"Wine snobbery" for STEM nerds is craft beer and coffee snobbery.
For me personally I like any type of coffee, not picky at all. I do mostly drink Turkish because that's what I can make at home. But when here I would just mix the different blends together, not with the purpose of making something special with just too have more coffee
In my humble opinion McDonald's coffee offers the best price to cost ratio of any takeaway coffee (at least that I've found)
It's far from the best coffee I've ever tasted, but I've yet to have a bad one anywhere.
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I read some where once that, despite the quality of a cup of coffee, the thing that will make it the most memorable is the people you're with.
I just like coffee.
Have you tried Wiener Melange?
(Not necessarily recommended)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiener_Melange
> In the summer of 2020, buffeted by Covid-19, Nespresso trundles on. In a recent email, a spokesperson reported “mid single-digit growth”
This article has failed to do anything other than convince me that the Nespresso is one of the most impressive products every launched, and has room to take on the US still.
Even when inflation is close to zero, interest on debt means that a company that isn't growing won't be able to service it's creditors forever, and it'll fail.
There are plenty of reasons why 'growth at all costs' is a stupid goal, but there does have to be some growth for a business to survive.
The only criticism I have is that most of their varieties are not 100% Arabica, and often it’s hard to find out if their “special editions” are. Robusta is bad for your blood pressure, but sadly it’s cheaper so it ends up in most mixes. This said, I think their last batch was almost entirely Arabica flavours so maybe they are improving. If you care, I’ve done a bit of analysis two years ago that covers all classic varieties (I really should update it) at http://blog.pythonaro.com/2018/04/nespresso-blends-comprehen...
(Oh, and fuck Vertuo. I’m happy to read it was an attempt at courting Americans, because from here it looked like just a simple money grab to raise the cost of capsules and maintain exclusivity on the format. No thanks.)
+1 to fuck Vertuo. If someone wants their coffee by gallons - let them get a dripper or kettle plus family-size bag of instant powder.
It grinds from beans and is a semi-automatic machine but it's so quick to use it's not really any slower than using a capsule machine but without the waste capsules.
My favourite coffee brand is Illy and that comes in an easily recyclable aluminium can, so you can avoid the little plastic coffee bags too if you're careful.
It was maybe a little more expensive than a high end Nespresso machine but not much more for a "real" coffee machine.
Try roasting your own beans. It’s fun and you can do it on the stove with a pan. It’s quick too.
There’s a lot in there from the author. It’s marketing and building an ecosystem. Surprised this doesn’t happen with other drinks like carbonated water.
Like you go to Marriott hotels, low and behold there is a sign on the bathroom towel that says "Please help save the planet" by reusing the towel. Sure it helps, but that's not the reason why they put that sign up. It is to save costs of laundry. If they really want to save the planet, how about cutting down private jets for their executives?
It never feels genuine and unless the product/service is directly contributing help to the environment - like an advertisement for a Solar panel company or a Wind Turbine brochure.
https://www.nespresso.com/us/en/how-to-recycle-coffee-capsul...
(I'm no Nespresso shill, I grind and Aeropress - I think my biggest source of waste is on power from boiling too much water)
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It makes professional grade shots, has no unnecessary waste, and has nothing to really break.
With regular descaling, backflushing, and sometimes repair or upgrades an espresso machine will easily last more than a decade.
To others, if you are not familiar with espresso, avoid manual espresso machines - even with consistent top quality semi-auto machines good espresso is not easy, let alone adding even more play into it with a lever machine.
I recommend not getting a home espresso machine at all unless you are really into it. Moka pots, pour over, aeropress are all far far easier, much cheaper, and far less finicky. Save the espresso for a trip to your neighborhood cafe instead - they'll make it far better without the hassle.
This simply hasn't been born out by my experience making espresso at home. By spending about $7-800 on a Rancilio Silvia and a Baratza Vario, and dialing in my process a bit, I'm able to consistently pull as-good or better shots than the premium coffee places around me (LAX). Granted, you have to be detail oriented to be consistently good, but once you've figured out the variables, it's just process.
This whole experience has taught me that a multi-thousand dollar HE machine is truly only as good as the person behind the portafilter.
They don't even pretend to be.
I think it's pretty easy to get a good, consistent espresso from something like a cheap home Breville/Sage/Solis machine.
You don't really need to be very "into it" for that. Just buy good beans and adjust the grinder as per the instructions and feedback either from the timer or pressure gauge.
They're just a few hundred bucks for a decent single boiler machine.
Too many cafes just service customers wanting milk based coffee these days to really care about espresso drinking customers. IMHO that's why they have these weird "espresso" roasts which are really just over-roasted or overly acidic (to my pallet) "green" roasts.
Just get a decent medium roast, a conical burr grinder (can be built into the machine) and you're good to go.
Either get a mocha pot at home, or get a real espresso machine and open a coffee shop.
I was always able to get something I enjoyed drinking out of an entry level, single boiler, home espresso machine. It was also fun and meditative learning the skill and doing the routine.
I'd take a less than perfect home espresso over just endless other brewed methods. I love an occasional pour-over, but not every day.
Everyone always says to avoid it, and that's true if you can't envisage doing it a couple of times a day (in which case, the cost and kitchen workspace requirements make it silly), but personally, I'd take an 80% espresso at home over not.
We still swear by our Moka pot for home coffee. It's so much less finicky and combined with a hand-grinder is ridiculously portable. Easy to throw into a backpack when you're travelling!
Hmmmm I think I'll go make a coffee now...
Anyway, I agree it's tricky and not for everyone ... just came here to tell others it might be worth a try. I'm really glad I went for it.
This thing doesn't even boil the water for you.
It absolutely is a lil messier and more work, but there's something to the ritual of it.
The grind is the problem that has not been solved yet. You need uniform and adjustable grind size and there is no cheap way to make a mill for that. Entry level espresso grinders are starting with hand-cranked ones at $200+, a decent electric one will be at least $500 and the good one will be $1000+. Just the replacement burrs for mine are $250 and these are not some one-off hipster burrs, they are mass-produced for commercial machines. Making precise shapes out of hard steel is very expensive.
So there are essentially two solutions for at home espresso-like drink: various pods (ESE is apparently from 70s and was designed for commercial use, I imagine very light one) and machines with a pressure valve on the exit from the portafilter (essentially all machines you can buy in department stores), those take pre-ground coffee and use the exit valve to create espresso-like "crema". It's not espresso because there is no noticeable pressure difference over and under the grounds and espresso needs the layer of coffee to provide enough resistance to get to 7-9 bars on top of it. I think some pod systems could be more like espresso, at least in principle.
I don't know how much coffee you grind, but unless you run a coffee shop, replacing burrs shouldn't really happen until after several decades.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=11ZSXVZbQbA
Great taste, effortless, no waste, cheap. What else?
A real espresso machine produces 8-9 bars of pressure for extraction, and a Bialetti is about 2 bars, so it's not technically espresso.
Were you unable to recycle your pods?
Despite their claims of how green they are, only 30% of their pods are recycled [0]
[0] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-16/most-nespresso-coffee...
What does it mean?
Also, can you tell us more about Flair? Very curious.
This article is timely for me I've only just discovered how to make great coffee. I've had a French press and a cheap coffee bean grinder for decades. With a little knowledge I finally made a really good cup of coffee. Nabob beans $4 and a few minutes makes great coffee. It's so great that I went from milky lattes and double-doubles to drinking it black. It's amazing how much a tiny bit of milk or sugar muffles the taste great coffee.
30g coffee beans freshly ground, 450g water, 5 minute brew. It's so simple with a French press no filters no electricity no pressurized steam.
With the help of Google I've seen that I perfectly know what it is, but we don't call it that way here and furthermore it's not a popular way of making coffee.
But thanks for the knowledge !