Notice Telus is issuing Huawei routers to new households here in Canada. Telus, Bell, Rogers - the 3 monopolies here on internet - means you could have about a third or more of the country transitioning to Chinese hardware; that is a lot.
As a Canadian citizen, I urge Canada to snub Huawei too. Doing business with businesses based in China for any reason should be met with extreme criticism simply based on the human rights atrocities that are happening there all the time; not to mention Chinese government's dismantling of free speech in Hong Kong [0] and its continued aggression towards the independent and separate country of Taiwan [1].
China's businesses should fix China's government before they expect to be rewarded with lucrative international deals to the scale that Telus (and Apple, et all) is awarding them.
Which Huawei devices is Telus deploying? I have Telus FTTP in Vancouver and was issued a Nokia ONT and a Actiontec router (which I only use for the IPTV boxes)
As a Canadian citizen myself, I firmly urge fellow Canadians to have their own independent thinking and policies. Canada should not be manipulated by foreign politicians. This is blatant interference of Canada's internal affairs by foreign politicians. If the US wants to fight China, Canada should not side with either. It is our best interest to stay neutral.
> Doing business with businesses based in China for any reason should be met with extreme criticism simply based on the human rights atrocities that are happening there all the time
Ah, "let's punish the people of China for getting oppressed by their government", the strategy that made Cuba what it is today.
> ...Telus, Bell, Rogers - the 3 monopolies here on internet...
You're missing Cogeco, Beanfield, Vidéotron, and loads of others. The market for integrated telcos in Canada is reasonably competitive, at least where costs are justified.
P.S. by definition three competitors (even if only, say, two are usually active in a given area) does not a monopoly make.
Apart from U.S pressure, another point to consider is that Huawei is widely believed to have conducted large scale theft of Nortel IP in the 2000s. It's crazy that Canada would think of rewarding such conduct with important telecom contracts.
> Only one person has made that accusation: Brian Shields, and he does so without any evidence
There was a lot of evidence of the hacking [1][2]. What was unsubstantiated was Brian Shields' belief that "the extensive cyberattacks on Nortel contributed to its downfall" [3].
Stupid question, but aren't essentially all routers made in China? Maybe not neccessarily by natively Chinese companies, but for sure in Chinese factories owned 51% by Chinese citizens? Or are there recommendable domestic options? What's the difference security-wise between a Huawei device and, say, a Motorola device made in China?
I've used a Huawei LTE router from a German telco before and thought it was a pretty solid product, but given the recent headlines I find it hard to judge what's a legitimite concern and what's just "red scare".
It's hard to tell... China's government has definitely been involved in cyber-attacks to further business interests throughout the world. They've developed better soft skills and fostered a lot of relationships to that end. Some of these actions are entirely natural, others completely unscrupulous. It really depends and it's hard to be objective.
In the end, I think it's been very ill advised for the U.S. Govt to allow so much of its' essential communications and other technical infrastructure to be delivered by foreign entities given domestic capability. I think we're only now starting to realize how much risk has been levied and how dangerous this has really been. Not just to domestic businesses, but to our own security.
The advice to Canada isn't necessarily bad, however I'm not sure that I would trust U.S. entities any further given the amount of cyber-warfare coming from all sides, and spying all around. Larger countries should definitely work to at least form their own assembly plants for most goods if they're able to support that. It can at least minimize a lot of the risks.
Given the cozy relationship between the Chinese government and Chinese telecoms, it's probably best to avoid any Chinese made electronics for infrastructure, if possible. Chinese military agents are even implicated in attacks on Western companies to help their own corporations.
The scale at which companies work with the government and how the government funds companies makes it very hard to trust any Chinese company.
Fair points, but you can search/replace Chinese with American and the statements are arguably as true. From cozy relationships to telecoms, to compromising electronics for their own ends, to engaging in industrial espionage for US organizations (including against companies of allies -- the CIA and NSA are both engaged in economic espionage, and share useful information with corporate partners).
It is a bit strange seeing the US yelling the warnings about China when really they just gained a peer doing the same things.
> you can search/replace Chinese with American and the statements are arguably as true
Not really. American companies can and do defy the American executive branch. Rule of law and an independent judiciary are things in America. They are not in China.
This attitude represents a fundamental misunderstanding about how China works and Chinese attitudes. For westerners, it is hard to understand how interconnected governments and businesses are in mainland China. China is the most opaque business world we can imagine and Chinese military intelligence has deep connections to Chinese businesses. It paints itself as a free market economy but it is highly controlled and authoritarian.
The West has this to some extent, but not at the same scale or connections. US companies are far more independent.
Based on Huawei's existing presence in Ottawa a couple years ago, I'd say that this ship has already sailed. Canada isn't going to kick out any of the companies that scooped up bits of what used to be Nortel.
Note that this isn't about kicking Huawei out of the existing network deployments (2G where it still exists, 3G & 4G/LTE). This is about not letting Huawei compete for 5G network infrastructure bids.
I understand the national security concerns, but it should be noted that real incremental costs will be incurred if Canada agrees, especially for Canadian carriers who already have Huawei RAN[1], Packet Core[2] or GiLAN[3] (or worse, an entirely E2E bundled deal) infrastructure in place servicing their current needs.
Huawei almost always has the lowest RFP bid prices, and through a combination of factors generally ends up on most RFx vendor short-lists. Their success is undeniable, and scares many.
Details have been released. The Wikipedia page provides a good compendium of Huawei's intellectual property rights abuses, espionage and security concerns, workforce treatment issues and sanctions violations [1].
Given all the animosity between the countries at the moment (Made in America, NAFTA 2, Bombardier, boarder delays, the Saudi fiasco, pending legalization of pot) now is not the best time for the US to urge Canada to impose any new restrictions. Canada laughed the last time the US described it as a national security threat (aluminum/steel tariffs) it will laugh at this one too.
Canada needs improved cellular services and it needs them now. Canada's cell networks are much more regulated than those of the US. They cover vastly larger areas and are much more expensive to access. The insertion of national security politics will only slow progress.
>>Canada needs improved cellular services and it needs them now.
In what way does Canada require improved cellular service? I'm nodding my head to the other points you've made but this one puzzles me. If you're talking about pricing, then I would agree there given more numerous and more transparent wireless competition in other countries.
Canada's mobile networks are generally comparable to advanced (but not cutting edge) cellular networks around the world.
Yes, in Toronto and Vancouver. But drop a random pin on a map of Canada and it is a different story. There are towns only 50km from downtown Vancouver that lack any reliable cell coverage. I've been involved in a few SAR events, at major tourist spots beside highways, where the lack of cell coverage was a huge issue.
Canada's distances also mean that there remain a great many communities without wired internet services. Satellite is very expensive, and increasingly difficult at higher latitudes. Cellular-based broadband is the only realistic option.
Canada's best interests are different than those of the US. Improved Canada-Chinese relations are much more of a priority as Canada looks for new markets. Security takes a back seat to trade as their top trading partner (US) becomes more and more erratic.
I see the Chinese mobile market as a serious threat to US cellular markets & phone manufacturers, something USA (with lobbying & special interest money) & its trade war is likely trying to prevent with propaganda campaigns. I would like to see CA laugh this off.
All the security concern about Huawei may actually make its devices more secure in the long run. The heightened scrutiny by various players not only deter Chinese government from conducting blatant hacks, but also expose many conventional vulnerabilities that pose a greater threat for most businesses. For example, UK intelligence agency has a joint testing center with Huawei to vet its source code and hardware design. It's really hard to find this kind of capable and independent party to perform such comprehensive security audit.
I didn’t say this is a reason to buy Huawei. I’m suggesting a side effect of security concern is improved security. To make secure software/hardware, it is really valuable to have people of different backgrounds to take a look. This is what many other venders do not have.
Readit News
As a Canadian citizen, I urge Canada to snub Huawei too. Doing business with businesses based in China for any reason should be met with extreme criticism simply based on the human rights atrocities that are happening there all the time; not to mention Chinese government's dismantling of free speech in Hong Kong [0] and its continued aggression towards the independent and separate country of Taiwan [1].
China's businesses should fix China's government before they expect to be rewarded with lucrative international deals to the scale that Telus (and Apple, et all) is awarding them.
https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/10/14/beijing-taking-hong-ko...
https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/10/11/exclusive-beijing-tell...
I know some of their cellular hardware is Huawei.
Bell is obsessed with Huawei last I checked.
Ah, "let's punish the people of China for getting oppressed by their government", the strategy that made Cuba what it is today.
You're missing Cogeco, Beanfield, Vidéotron, and loads of others. The market for integrated telcos in Canada is reasonably competitive, at least where costs are justified.
P.S. by definition three competitors (even if only, say, two are usually active in a given area) does not a monopoly make.
edit: https://business.financialpost.com/technology/nortel-hacked-...
There was a lot of evidence of the hacking [1][2]. What was unsubstantiated was Brian Shields' belief that "the extensive cyberattacks on Nortel contributed to its downfall" [3].
[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203363504577187...
[2] https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2400242,00.asp
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nortel#Hackers_had_free_access...
I've used a Huawei LTE router from a German telco before and thought it was a pretty solid product, but given the recent headlines I find it hard to judge what's a legitimite concern and what's just "red scare".
In the end, I think it's been very ill advised for the U.S. Govt to allow so much of its' essential communications and other technical infrastructure to be delivered by foreign entities given domestic capability. I think we're only now starting to realize how much risk has been levied and how dangerous this has really been. Not just to domestic businesses, but to our own security.
The advice to Canada isn't necessarily bad, however I'm not sure that I would trust U.S. entities any further given the amount of cyber-warfare coming from all sides, and spying all around. Larger countries should definitely work to at least form their own assembly plants for most goods if they're able to support that. It can at least minimize a lot of the risks.
The scale at which companies work with the government and how the government funds companies makes it very hard to trust any Chinese company.
It is a bit strange seeing the US yelling the warnings about China when really they just gained a peer doing the same things.
Not really. American companies can and do defy the American executive branch. Rule of law and an independent judiciary are things in America. They are not in China.
The West has this to some extent, but not at the same scale or connections. US companies are far more independent.
I understand the national security concerns, but it should be noted that real incremental costs will be incurred if Canada agrees, especially for Canadian carriers who already have Huawei RAN[1], Packet Core[2] or GiLAN[3] (or worse, an entirely E2E bundled deal) infrastructure in place servicing their current needs.
Huawei almost always has the lowest RFP bid prices, and through a combination of factors generally ends up on most RFx vendor short-lists. Their success is undeniable, and scares many.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_access_network
[2] http://www.3gpp.org/technologies/keywords-acronyms/100-the-e...
[3] https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/reference_arch...
I just want to know what these grave concerns are. If they are such a big deal then the details should be released to the public.
Details have been released. The Wikipedia page provides a good compendium of Huawei's intellectual property rights abuses, espionage and security concerns, workforce treatment issues and sanctions violations [1].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies
Canada needs improved cellular services and it needs them now. Canada's cell networks are much more regulated than those of the US. They cover vastly larger areas and are much more expensive to access. The insertion of national security politics will only slow progress.
In what way does Canada require improved cellular service? I'm nodding my head to the other points you've made but this one puzzles me. If you're talking about pricing, then I would agree there given more numerous and more transparent wireless competition in other countries.
Canada's mobile networks are generally comparable to advanced (but not cutting edge) cellular networks around the world.
Canada's distances also mean that there remain a great many communities without wired internet services. Satellite is very expensive, and increasingly difficult at higher latitudes. Cellular-based broadband is the only realistic option.
http://www.comparecellular.com/images/assets/coverage-maps/b...
Setting aside the north, take a look at how much of BC lacks any real cell coverage.
Basing the response on school yard type diplomacy would be unwise.
This makes no sense. Nobody argues for purchasing a product based on a manufacturer's history of security failings.