This is why paperweights exist. Office buildings all used to have ventilator shafts which effectively created lower pressure in the interior of the building. In order to make it work, you needed to have your office window open AND an interior window open (typically above your office door, so you could still keep your door closed).
As you can imagine, there was a lot of wind whipping through offices. This is why the paperweight was invented -- and also why no one uses paperweights anymore.
I would love this. I have to dress for two different climates on summer workdays - skirt/shorts and short sleeves for outside, jeans and sweater (plus a sweatshirt over it) for inside. It's absurd how overly air-conditioned office environments are.
Meanwhile you have people like me. I'm are already uncomfortably hot no matter how I'm dressed (or not) at 78. Even in shorts and a tshirt, most offices are warmer than I'd prefer.
This may be my own biases at play here, but it's really not that hard to warm up by dressing warmer. You don't have that option for cooling down unless you want to wear a vest full of icepacks or something. If the goal is to maximize comfort, it seems like the thermostat should be set lower rather than higher.
On the flip side, there is only so much clothes I can take off before it becomes illegal where as it is easy for people to put on more clothes if they are cold. Granted, there are ways I can help cool myself down such as having a fan which I do have at my desk but it would be ridiculous to bring that with me to meetings and stuff.
To flip back around to your point though, I definitely understand it as my girlfriend has raynaud's so I'll be in my apartment with the fan on still hot while my girlfriend will be next to me freezing with her hands turning white because she is cold. We are hoping our future kids will even out our weird temperature imbalances and be normal.
It's because offices are stuck air conditioning to a level that makes suits comfortable. There was a big brouhaha about it in England a couple years ago.
Your arms will still sweat to your desk if you don’t have great typing skills regardless of how naked you are. Offices are kept at or below 70F because productivity peaks at that level in ways that clothing can’t help.
I've been in Seattle for almost 3 years now and the temperature the AC gets set at is like 64F. When I lived elsewhere it was always set @ 72F. It's so cold in my office downtown that I have a fall/winter jacket I'm often wearing on the hottest days and dresses/skirts end up causing me to be uncomfortably cold the entire day.
i worked in a call center years ago. the thermostat was in the 'executive office' hallway, where 4 people worked. it controlled the temp for the whole side of our building, affecting 130 people. One of the execs 'liked it cold", and would turn it down. The airflow was a problem - to get it to 73-74 for him, the rest of the larger callcenter room would be closer to 68-69. My shared office space with 5-6 others was off that larger space, but was one of the airducts feeding everything else. I came in one morning, and the digital thermostat on my desk clock said it was 62f at my desk. I couldn't type after an hour. I went and brought in a small space heater, and got a slight reprimand (non-company equipment, etc). It was odd - the rest of the guys in my space said "yeah, it's cold" but claimed to be OK - I couldn't move my fingers to type/mouse without some pain after an hour or so of being in 62f.
In my office, I have a lot of hardware. With my door shut, it gets to be an oven even with air conditioning, with the door open it’s still hot, even though the hallway temp is 68. I actually like it cold inside. You can always wear more clothes, but there is a limit to how much you can take off. It’s pretty unfair to impose hot temperatures on people since there isn’t much that can be done after you’ve stripped down to the bare essentials of clothing. But colder temperatures — it’s easy to wear a light sweater.
78 in the building along with hot computers means you are quickly going to have a rather uncomfortable situation.
The fact this company has to adjust work hours to accommodate their “progressiveness” means they actually haven’t solved anything. It’s just virtue signaling. They could just as easily have their team work nights to get the same effect — but then they wouldn’t get media attention for just how innovative they are. Windows open in California means you also subject yourself to wildfire particulates, smog and other pollutants that HVAC systems mitigate. “Fresh air” is nice — when it’s actually fresh, and in most cities, it isn’t. Even Paris has had serious air quality situations. City air just isn’t all that clean. In Beijing, “fresh air” is downright toxic. I am not sure how eliminating air conditioning is considered an innovation. Air conditioning was one of the most important inventions, anyone that says otherwise never spent any time in an un-air-conditioned New Orleans house with box fans creating a cross breeze of 100% humidity. The nostalgia for the good old days is felt by those that never had to live through those days.
This story reads to me like nonsense. Seattle, while it can get “hot” is positively frigid when compared to much of the rest of the country. Try that in Atlanta, Houston or Arizona. This story is the equivalent of a Miami building being built without heating — it isn’t any kind of groundbreaking innovation. When a building in Minnesota is built without heat, then I might be interested.
What’s really innovative is how Apple Park handles fresh air and HVAC. Apple Park isn’t 78 degrees inside — it’s much cooler; they went far beyond the “innovation” in this Seattle building. This sort of innovation can be done, but being proud of a 78 degree internal temperature is like being proud when someone’s kid stops wetting the bed at age 12. It’s only a big deal to those who are experiencing it, but to the rest of us, it’s just self-congratulatory bullshit of the most mundane sort: big deal, you designed a building that isn’t quite at hot as the outdoors using groundbreaking technology that is equivalent to an open window.
Yes, 85 is well beyond "constant sweating even when not moving or doing anything" temperatures for me, and I wouldn't want to be in a room of coworkers doing the same either. 78 would be at the edge of idle sweating.
And for some of us (myself, for example) 68 without a breeze is my threshold of constant idle sweating. I have to set up a tower fan under my monitor at work to be comfortable (this is with office AC set to low 70s, which is way too hot for me), and at home I have AC set to 65-68 pretty much all the time.
People who complain about having to put on a sweater have no idea how miserable it is for those of us who have to sit for 8+ hours in an environment sweating profusely when it gets too hot.
This is why office AC is the way it is. You can put on a sweater. I cannot take off my skin.
To be fair, the average daily high in Seattle during the summer is 75F. You would only have to deal with temperatures like that for 2-3 weeks per year. Seattle is currently having a heat wave, which is the reason for the temperature in the article.
There’s a reason offices are air conditioned the way they are, trust me. While some of you lucky people can tolerate these temperatures comfortably, a significant percentage of the population sweats profusely in anything beyond 70 degrees Fahrenheit (I’m one of them).
Those of us who suffer from this would LOVE to trade places with the people who complain of the terrible effort of “putting on a sweater in the summer time” when it’s a bit too cool inside.
Unfortunately, we do not have the luxury of peeling off our skin when we are sweating uncontrollably in a 78F room, that some say is “not too hot”.
It’s important to recognize that humans are very diverse creatures, and office environments have to deal with the complex task of accommodating a wide range of physiologies.
I’m usually a cold lover, but this summer I’ve had to suck it up. I’ve been working in London, UK in an office where it’s usually above 25c (no proper AC and south facing windows) and my apartment is often the same temperature when I go to sleep (one night it was 29c/84F).
A few observations I’ve made:
- Even when it’s this temperature, a fan blowing air over you really helps to increase comfort. Too much airflow is also uncomfortable (messes with the NC on my headphones), and most desk fans are too powerful even on their lowest settings.
- I’ve started eating less which seems to reduce my metabolism causing the heat to effect me less. It’s a trade-off as if I eat too little I can’t work as effectively, but there’s a local optimum vs being too uncomfortable from the heat.
- Shorts and t-shirt everyday. Even then I’m still sweating for the next hour if I do anything strenuous outside.
- People who are always cold don’t seem to understand the discomfort people experience from heat. In my home country in the depths of winter it often gets to 15c/60F or less in old buildings. I’d much rather that with lots of layers and hot drinks, than be too hot. Maybe they feel the same about the heat though, can anyone comfortably work in an office environment that is 35c/95F?
On my A/C unit, 25C is the factory default setting in cooling mode (20C for heating). I don't know why but in the US, people tend to set their A/C to arctic mode.
78 is tolerable with a breeze (and moderate humidity).
I live in the Seattle area without AC and it's fine. Open the windows at night with a window fan to bring in cool air (I don't have a breeze-inducing courtyard), close the windows and the blinds in the daytime to keep out the sun.
Even in 90 degree weather outside, the bedrooms on the third floor stay under 75 degrees and by bedtime it's typically cooler than that so the fan keeps it cool.
I live in the Seattle area without an AC, it’s fine but I can only code at home in the morning and at night, I’m not going to use my computer between 12 and 6PM during a heat wave without a huge ass fan next to me, and even then it doesn’t work out well.
> You forget how hardwired humans are to really enjoy the natural environment," she said. People get respite from being connected to nature, she said, "even in an urban environment like a city"
Um, no I don't think I'll enjoy working @ 78F much.
Why? 25°C is absolutely fine for working inside, at least for me. A little cooler and I need a sweater and long pants. This summer I've mainly worked at home (no AC, Southern Ontario), because I don't want to bring my winter clothes to work. Combine a room cooled to 20°C, the AC breeze, and me sitting at a desk without a scarf and I have a sore throat in under two hours.
I am sorry but this sounds stupid. You do not build non ac buildings with glass exteriors. You build them with bricks. Moreover you have windows for cross ventilation, high roof, shades over windows and thick brick walls elsewhere to keep the sun out.
Another, more scientific way could be to pump air through a 20-30 deep well so that it gets naturally cooled and use it to ventilate the building.
Exactly. In Brazil, there are quite a few big buildings build with this methodology (long wells that cool the air). I can think of one hospital in the northeast, one big factory (printing business) near São Paulo, etc.
It works exceptionally well, but as OP mentioned, glass exteriors are not a good idea.
Love the concept, but would totally not work in the mid-atlantic. Summer days of 95 degrees with 95 percent humidity are not uncommon. Even worse, there are times it just doesn't cool down at night. In such conditions the building would become an oven where all surfaces are at around 85 degrees plus.
If you're in an area where it cools down at night and the temperature is more moderate, being able to open the windows in a building designed this way would be really nice.
I’ve lived in San Francisco, Oakland and I can see it working there. I’ve lived in Indiana and if it has heat, I can see it working there when it’s warmer.
I’ve lived in Puerto Rico. I can’t see this working there.
Yes. Germany is incredibly cheap that way, claiming it's "not worth it due to short summers". Doesn't matter. If you need it only 2-3 months a year, that's still a NEED right there. Especially during 38C days.
I just got back from a long sabbatical in Spain and 1 through 3 I'm with you. Why do people just accept flys in their house? Why don't the windows have screens? I don't think I saw a single screen on a window the whole time. Drove me up a wall. At least AC is decently common in Spain, at least more common than I've seen in most other major European cities.
In Switzerland it's hit and miss. New buildings usually have good air conditioning, but anything a bit older doesn't. And there are a lot of older buildings in Switzerland. It's a country that has 4 very pronounced seasons, so if there's a heatwave (like right now), it usually means hot offices... the productivity impact is quite significant.
My dad built our home near Jacksonville Florida to take advantage of the direction of prevailing winds. It was essentially all open windows and ceiling fans with no air conditioning.
During the summer it would be so hot and humid in the house that you were wet again before you could finish drying off after a shower. During the winter the complete lack of insulation meant that temperatures inside the house would get down into the 40s during cold snaps.
On the plus side he was able to brag about us never having an electric bill above $20.
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As you can imagine, there was a lot of wind whipping through offices. This is why the paperweight was invented -- and also why no one uses paperweights anymore.
In other words, no better than working in a shaded outdoor area. That’s too hot to work in my opinion. I think they can do a lot better.
This may be my own biases at play here, but it's really not that hard to warm up by dressing warmer. You don't have that option for cooling down unless you want to wear a vest full of icepacks or something. If the goal is to maximize comfort, it seems like the thermostat should be set lower rather than higher.
To flip back around to your point though, I definitely understand it as my girlfriend has raynaud's so I'll be in my apartment with the fan on still hot while my girlfriend will be next to me freezing with her hands turning white because she is cold. We are hoping our future kids will even out our weird temperature imbalances and be normal.
It's because offices are stuck air conditioning to a level that makes suits comfortable. There was a big brouhaha about it in England a couple years ago.
78 in the building along with hot computers means you are quickly going to have a rather uncomfortable situation.
The fact this company has to adjust work hours to accommodate their “progressiveness” means they actually haven’t solved anything. It’s just virtue signaling. They could just as easily have their team work nights to get the same effect — but then they wouldn’t get media attention for just how innovative they are. Windows open in California means you also subject yourself to wildfire particulates, smog and other pollutants that HVAC systems mitigate. “Fresh air” is nice — when it’s actually fresh, and in most cities, it isn’t. Even Paris has had serious air quality situations. City air just isn’t all that clean. In Beijing, “fresh air” is downright toxic. I am not sure how eliminating air conditioning is considered an innovation. Air conditioning was one of the most important inventions, anyone that says otherwise never spent any time in an un-air-conditioned New Orleans house with box fans creating a cross breeze of 100% humidity. The nostalgia for the good old days is felt by those that never had to live through those days.
This story reads to me like nonsense. Seattle, while it can get “hot” is positively frigid when compared to much of the rest of the country. Try that in Atlanta, Houston or Arizona. This story is the equivalent of a Miami building being built without heating — it isn’t any kind of groundbreaking innovation. When a building in Minnesota is built without heat, then I might be interested.
What’s really innovative is how Apple Park handles fresh air and HVAC. Apple Park isn’t 78 degrees inside — it’s much cooler; they went far beyond the “innovation” in this Seattle building. This sort of innovation can be done, but being proud of a 78 degree internal temperature is like being proud when someone’s kid stops wetting the bed at age 12. It’s only a big deal to those who are experiencing it, but to the rest of us, it’s just self-congratulatory bullshit of the most mundane sort: big deal, you designed a building that isn’t quite at hot as the outdoors using groundbreaking technology that is equivalent to an open window.
People who complain about having to put on a sweater have no idea how miserable it is for those of us who have to sit for 8+ hours in an environment sweating profusely when it gets too hot.
This is why office AC is the way it is. You can put on a sweater. I cannot take off my skin.
Those of us who suffer from this would LOVE to trade places with the people who complain of the terrible effort of “putting on a sweater in the summer time” when it’s a bit too cool inside.
Unfortunately, we do not have the luxury of peeling off our skin when we are sweating uncontrollably in a 78F room, that some say is “not too hot”.
It’s important to recognize that humans are very diverse creatures, and office environments have to deal with the complex task of accommodating a wide range of physiologies.
A few observations I’ve made:
- Even when it’s this temperature, a fan blowing air over you really helps to increase comfort. Too much airflow is also uncomfortable (messes with the NC on my headphones), and most desk fans are too powerful even on their lowest settings.
- I’ve started eating less which seems to reduce my metabolism causing the heat to effect me less. It’s a trade-off as if I eat too little I can’t work as effectively, but there’s a local optimum vs being too uncomfortable from the heat.
- Shorts and t-shirt everyday. Even then I’m still sweating for the next hour if I do anything strenuous outside.
- People who are always cold don’t seem to understand the discomfort people experience from heat. In my home country in the depths of winter it often gets to 15c/60F or less in old buildings. I’d much rather that with lots of layers and hot drinks, than be too hot. Maybe they feel the same about the heat though, can anyone comfortably work in an office environment that is 35c/95F?
On my A/C unit, 25C is the factory default setting in cooling mode (20C for heating). I don't know why but in the US, people tend to set their A/C to arctic mode.
I can handle the heat and humidity and be comfortable, but not while wearing business casual.
Without electricity?
78 is tolerable with a breeze (and moderate humidity).
I live in the Seattle area without AC and it's fine. Open the windows at night with a window fan to bring in cool air (I don't have a breeze-inducing courtyard), close the windows and the blinds in the daytime to keep out the sun.
Even in 90 degree weather outside, the bedrooms on the third floor stay under 75 degrees and by bedtime it's typically cooler than that so the fan keeps it cool.
Maybe for you.... over 75 is not tolerable to me, I can not sleep at over 72 even if I have an industrial fan blowing over me....
My AC is set year round in my home to 68-70 and that is pushing it for me, In the winter my heat is set to 60-65
I love the cold, this is why I live in the Northern US and not Florida
Dead Comment
Um, no I don't think I'll enjoy working @ 78F much.
Another, more scientific way could be to pump air through a 20-30 deep well so that it gets naturally cooled and use it to ventilate the building.
It’s 85 degrees outside the Terry Thomas building; inside it’s 78 degrees.
I guess it can't be done. Or if it can, this building is not proof.
If you're in an area where it cools down at night and the temperature is more moderate, being able to open the windows in a building designed this way would be really nice.
I’ve lived in San Francisco, Oakland and I can see it working there. I’ve lived in Indiana and if it has heat, I can see it working there when it’s warmer.
I’ve lived in Puerto Rico. I can’t see this working there.
I have been impressed staying at hostels that had, what I would call, “suicide windows”.
In Toronto apartments, you have to take invasive action to let the window open more than 10cm.
I’m not sure what’s more unbearable:
1) The number of people (age 22 to 70) that claim air conditioning makes you ill
2) The heat
3) The lack of screens on windows in a city built near a marsh (mosquitoes)
At least i’m by the sea until today.
But it is becoming more popular.
[1] https://www.google.com/maps/place/225+Terry+Ave+N+%23200,+Se...
Are you mixing them up with the building next door?
During the summer it would be so hot and humid in the house that you were wet again before you could finish drying off after a shower. During the winter the complete lack of insulation meant that temperatures inside the house would get down into the 40s during cold snaps.
On the plus side he was able to brag about us never having an electric bill above $20.