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tinfins commented on Documents reveal that Whole Foods is leaving some shelves empty on purpose   businessinsider.com/whole... · Posted by u/cepth
userbinator · 8 years ago
Personally, I'd prefer to see empty places where a product is sold out, than have to spend extra time coming to that conclusion by examining everything else nearby.
tinfins · 8 years ago
That's exactly the reason for this policy. One of many reasons, actually.

But it actually is meant for things on regular shelves, it doesn't apply to the produce department, which is what all the pictures in this terrible article show. It also doesn't apply if the product is going to be out-of-stock for a known period of time. It's meant for situations where the buyer didn't order enough and it will only be out for a day or two.

tinfins commented on Whole Foods employees reveal why stores are facing a crisis of food shortages   businessinsider.com/whole... · Posted by u/deegles
onli · 8 years ago
> So you think stores should just keep a huge backstock of fresh produce just in case an extreme weather event or some other rare issue hits?

Strawman. I said nothing of the sort. I'm taking the article at face value. The article reports that regularly, stores of your chain are understocked that much that you are losing money and customer loyalty. It is not saying those are special rare issues.

Now, there are two options: The article is wrong, or it is right. If it is wrong, then you need to change nothing internally. Customers will see in their nearest store that the stock is alright, some might even come out in support, a small welcome challenge for PR. But looking at this thread, at the comments not being a discussion about journalistic objectivity below your top-comment, there is some support for the thesis of the article. If the article is right, the system needs to be changed if you want to compete with the other stores that actually succeed in stocking the items customers came to the shop for. In that case, the impression I would get from the attitude you are reflecting here (and which according to the article is the one of management) is that parts of WF are burying the head in the sand, which would likely be disastrous for your company.

It is easy to optimize for the wrong metrics, especially big corporations. Short term shareholder value, cost reductions - cost reductions were echoed by management in the article as motivation for the OTS system. Combine that with a good portion of institutional inertia and wrongly placed respect for authority, and this is how companies die. Which, again, might not be at all what is happening here (and Amazon and stuff, I know). It just looks like an example of it, which I think is interesting.

tinfins · 8 years ago
I jumped ahead there and left a step of my reasoning out. The article describes a lack of backstock, due to OTS, causing out-of-stocks when stores have to miss a delivery or two. But if you assume that the vast majority of these issues were in fact caused by unpredictable events, then the only possible solution would be to keep large amounts of extra stock at all times, which is worse for the customer and the company in the end. Obviously the goal is for neither extreme to occur.

The article is wrong about the regularity of the issue, the "weird control systems" (not sure what connection you're seeing with employee protection laws), and the causes.

But you misunderstand me if you think I'm burying my head in the sand. I don't deny that Whole Foods has issues with its ordering processes. In fact, I think the company has been going in the wrong direction there for a long time. The article is just so, so off-base - originally I didn't intend to argue with it, but now I've become this guy: https://xkcd.com/386/

It will be interesting to see if Amazon can improve the situation through automation. Generally I've seen stores that use automated ordering systems be far worse with their out-of-stocks (Kroger, for instance).

tinfins commented on Whole Foods employees reveal why stores are facing a crisis of food shortages   businessinsider.com/whole... · Posted by u/deegles
dylan604 · 8 years ago
I find it funny/odd that the eye of sauron has focused its attention at Whole Foods. Depending on the day of the week, especially late Sunday afternoon/evening but also random weekdays when I run in after work, my local Kroger looks very barren in the produce department. So much so that I have sent picture texts commenting about it.

This is quite normal behavior when weather events in the area are expected, but lately it has been occurring regardless of weather. From my outside observer position, it could be a simple miscalculation of how much to order, someone getting burned by ordering too much and stock went bad, or any other reason of which I have no inside knowledge.

Is this attention to "Whole Paycheck" unfair or are people just super attentive due to the new ownership and judgements being rushed to be "ahead of the curve"?

tinfins · 8 years ago
Yeah, I wonder. We definitely aren't used to all the media attention - honestly, I got a little carried away in the comments here.

I wouldn't say I even particularly care about Whole Foods' reputation, it's more the false narrative that bothered me and I just happened to know how wrong it was. Must be so much worse for employees at the big tech companies or others that are in the news all the time.

Deleted Comment

tinfins commented on Whole Foods employees reveal why stores are facing a crisis of food shortages   businessinsider.com/whole... · Posted by u/deegles
Chaebixi · 8 years ago
> So I would say there probably was a nationwide spike in out-of-stocks spread out over a few days. But it isn't really because of OTS.

Is it though? If OTS drastically decreases the backstock, wouldn't it also decrease the ability of a store to respond to these kinds of changes?

tinfins · 8 years ago
You wouldn't want backstock for produce of more than a day or two, because that's going to reduce freshness. You can't just constantly keep tons of backstock of everything year-round just in case there's a storm one week.

Also, OTS allows backstock of top selling items or in emergencies. If you can predict a big storm like what probably caused most of the problems in the article, you are allowed to stock up on product.

That's why I have a problem with the article, it's just so factually incorrect.

tinfins commented on Whole Foods employees reveal why stores are facing a crisis of food shortages   businessinsider.com/whole... · Posted by u/deegles
jwn · 8 years ago
Can you offer any more insights? What's the reality behind OTS?
tinfins · 8 years ago
OTS is really just a collection of pretty common-sense guidelines like don't have more than a certain percentage of inventory in backstock, don't have backstock of stuff that doesn't sell well, keep your backstock organized, etc.

There are a few details about it that can be irritating, but the comments from employees in the article are extremely misleading. If they're having a hard time passing their inspections it's because they're doing something very wrong - no one is failing an inspection for having 1 box facing the wrong way like it says in the article.

tinfins commented on Whole Foods employees reveal why stores are facing a crisis of food shortages   businessinsider.com/whole... · Posted by u/deegles
Angostura · 8 years ago
So I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that there is no stock control issue and those photos are deliberately misleading?
tinfins · 8 years ago
Not necessarily, I'm saying that even if there is, the article has no clue why.
tinfins commented on Whole Foods employees reveal why stores are facing a crisis of food shortages   businessinsider.com/whole... · Posted by u/deegles
JoeAltmaier · 8 years ago
Not sure I'm convinced. Your store does ok; that's certain. But you know about exactly one more store than I do; do you know the article is wrong for all stores? For a majority? For any? Not sure how far that induction can go.

If even one store did ok, we could see an employee from there posting here. Not sure that is information; more like a data point.

tinfins · 8 years ago
Good point, but I'm not necessarily disagreeing that there were a few days with high out-of-stocks, just that the employees criticizing the OTS system in the article are being very misleading and exaggerating.
tinfins commented on Whole Foods employees reveal why stores are facing a crisis of food shortages   businessinsider.com/whole... · Posted by u/deegles
dingaling · 8 years ago
Why are they resetting a section during shopping hours?

Even 30 years ago when I was a student worker in a food store that sort of task only happened after 22:00 when the last customers had left.

tinfins · 8 years ago
Most meat teams at WFM don't have overnight crews.

The thing is too, it's a snapshot. We don't know how long it looked like that, what time of the day it was, whether someone called out sick, etc.

tinfins commented on Whole Foods employees reveal why stores are facing a crisis of food shortages   businessinsider.com/whole... · Posted by u/deegles
onli · 8 years ago
But that's exactly the problem the article describes: That the moment something goes wrong the stores don't have any reserves anymore, because the system is too strictly set on reducing costs and spoilage, seemingly with a total disregard to consumer satisfaction and overall profit. Add to that crazy-sounding control schemes - which maybe is kinda normal in a country like the US without real employee protection laws, but is unthinkable in less free market capitalist societies.

Not sure why you defend your employer here. If the problem is real - which I'm in no position to judge - it would be in his best interest to notice it.

tinfins · 8 years ago
So you think stores should just keep a huge backstock of fresh produce just in case an extreme weather event or some other rare issue hits? That's going to lead to less fresh produce for the 350 days a year when everything goes smoothly.

The OTS system in the article also allows for exceptions - if there were bananas available the store could have stocked up on them. It's just so wrong on many levels - I could spend all day pointing them out, but this thread is getting bigger than I thought and I don't know if I can spend much more time on it. I was going to edit my original comment with more information but it doesn't look like I can anymore.

u/tinfins

KarmaCake day231February 6, 2015View Original