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siberpunk commented on Ode to libraries (the book ones)   sibervepunk.com/ode-to-li... · Posted by u/siberpunk
fragile_frogs · 6 months ago
> So what to do? Go to nearest coffee shop. You’re lucky if they don’t play tasteless trendy music. You’re lucky if a waiter doesn’t keep asking if you need anything, isn’t intrusive, and doesn’t subtly let you know when it’s time to leave by checking on you constantly . You’re lucky if no teenagers talking loudly about their-whatever-teens-talk-about-these-days.

I used to work from coffee shops until I realized how annoying it is to have a café full of people working on their laptops. A once lively place that was supposed to be an escape to relax, meet friends or read a book has turned into a soulless office environment. I want to go to a café to escape work, not to be reminded of it by constant keyboard sounds or video calls.

> You’re lucky if a waiter doesn’t keep asking if you need anything, isn’t intrusive, and doesn’t subtly let you know when it’s time to leave by checking on you constantly .

> Oh, by the way, pay a lot of money to be here and to drink a nice cup of burnt coffe.

How entitled can you be to think that you can occupy a table for the whole day and expect to only buy one coffee?

> Then rent an office or subscribe to a co-working space? What? I get paid to work, not to pay for it.

Yes, that is exactly you are supposed to do. If you are working remotely and can´t afford a co-working space you are probably underpaid. Your salary should either include that expense or your employer should cover that for you.

siberpunk · 6 months ago
> ..until I realized how annoying it is to have a café full of people working on their laptops

Again, some coffee shops just go for that market. They provide working spaces or floors etc. Their target is those customers who work there. This is not about your preference as a customer.

> How entitled can you be to think that you can occupy a table for the whole day and expect to only buy one coffee?

I'm not sure where this "whole day" come from. I never sit anywhere whole day, not in library, not in coffee shops. At most 2-3 hours at a coffee shop. Plus, I never said they need to provide me this kind of service. I have no demands. I clearly said, this kind of environment is not for me. I am not the target customer of those coffee shops, and I simply don't prefer them. I am listing the reasons why coffee shops does not work for me. Again, I am not telling I have those rights. I am exactly telling that not having the correct environment droves me away from coffee shops for work.

> Yes, that is exactly you are supposed to do. If you are working remotely and can´t afford a co-working space you are probably underpaid. Your salary should either include that expense or your employer should cover that for you.

Well, no? That's not what I am supposed to do. I am paid to work from home, not work from a co-working space. Spending my working hours outside of the home is my personal preference, not something that I need to get paid.

siberpunk commented on Ode to libraries (the book ones)   sibervepunk.com/ode-to-li... · Posted by u/siberpunk
imp0cat · 6 months ago

   Leaving your warm bed, rising before the sun in the morning (and I’m a morning person believe it or not), getting ready, commuting, traffic, thinking about what to eat in the office, commuting again, leaving you no time to live your life.
Indeed there is some entitlement in there.

But then again, I am thankful that the author has decided to share her thoughts on the subject. It's fascinating. The idea that waking up before dawn or commuting etc... is not living - well, what is it, then?

siberpunk · 6 months ago
I belive it's fairly obvious that I mean life outside the work by "living your life". It's a pretty simple math that if you don't commute, spend time in traffic you have more time to do your stuff (whatever is your stuff). I still don't get how not liking traffic or liking decent amount of sleep is "entitlement"
siberpunk commented on Ode to libraries (the book ones)   sibervepunk.com/ode-to-li... · Posted by u/siberpunk
danielfalbo · 6 months ago
If only one could have Zoom calls in libraries
siberpunk · 6 months ago
I believe most of them have common spaces or work-together-rooms. But again, every library has different use cases..
siberpunk commented on Ode to libraries (the book ones)   sibervepunk.com/ode-to-li... · Posted by u/siberpunk
rwbt · 6 months ago
Great write up and I share very similar ideas. But I wish there was something a little more than a library where people with similar interests can actually socialize and build a sense of community.
siberpunk · 6 months ago
I need that too! Especially when working remotely, I don't have the office to see my co-workers to socialize. Or back when I was in college, I don't have my classmates to chat about stuff. I wish "clubs" or communities in that sense were more common outside of college
siberpunk commented on Ode to libraries (the book ones)   sibervepunk.com/ode-to-li... · Posted by u/siberpunk
ZeroGravitas · 6 months ago
I find libraries immensely soothing and am lucky enough to have several nearby to rotate through so I have also done this.

Combining a cycle to get there and coming back with a new book in my laptop bag is a good feeling.

Video calls are tricky, since you don't want to disturb others. Audio calls can be an excuse to take a walk outside in the sunlight. But I generally try to plan around calls and make the trip when I want to focus.

I'm also happy with just a laptop, which not all developers are.

I also quite like the background noise of students doing homework and old people getting taught how to use computers and the other human life going on quietly in the background. The occasional group of toddlers having a sing-song is a special treat.

siberpunk · 6 months ago
On video calls, the library I go to is in some kind of cultural center & community space mix. So there are some common spaces that you can talk, and a cafetaria. These alone solve my problems for quick un-planned video calls. For daily meetings or planned pair programming sessions, I also wait for the meeting then head over to library.
siberpunk commented on Ode to libraries (the book ones)   sibervepunk.com/ode-to-li... · Posted by u/siberpunk
danielfalbo · 6 months ago
> So what to do? Go to nearest coffee shop. You’re lucky if they don’t play tasteless trendy music. You’re lucky if a waiter doesn’t keep asking if you need anything, isn’t intrusive, and doesn’t subtly let you know when it’s time to leave by checking on you constantly . You’re lucky if no teenagers talking loudly about their-whatever-teens-talk-about-these-days. Oh, by the way, pay a lot of money to be here and to drink a nice cup of burnt coffe.

You're right, but there are coffee shops that are actually friendly to work at. When I was living in Rome, I compiled for myself a maps list of work-friendly bars https://maps.app.goo.gl/8nZUdYEbs7H8MCDd7 - Now I moved to London and I'm doing the same

siberpunk · 6 months ago
Absolutely, there are some coffee shops. Like you when I was in Istanbul, there were lots and lots of coffee shops, some of them even has two floors with top floor spared for working. Now I moved to a smaller city and I don't have these options anymore. That part was just my current experience. Also, thanks for sharing your list! I love spending time around the world in google maps, this will be my fun for today.
siberpunk commented on Ode to libraries (the book ones)   sibervepunk.com/ode-to-li... · Posted by u/siberpunk
dpassens · 6 months ago
That would have been a very fair point but to me, the tone definitely comes off as "how dare these annoying waiters try to sell me coffee so that the shop doesn't lose money from me occupying a seat" and "how dare teenagers enjoy their time in a coffee shop, don't they know I have work to do?"
siberpunk · 6 months ago
English isn’t my first language, so some sentences may have lost their nuance in translation. To me, that paragraph was more of a humorous, playful way of listing the aspects of working in a coffee shop that don’t suit me, rather than an angry, dissatisfied complaint.
siberpunk commented on Ode to libraries (the book ones)   sibervepunk.com/ode-to-li... · Posted by u/siberpunk
hopelite · 6 months ago
I thought you were a bit harsh by calling it entitled, but then I saw “Then rent an office or subscribe to a co-working space? What? I get paid to work, not to pay for it.” Right afterwards, so I’m included to agree that there is definitely some kind of entitlement going on.

The irony is that even as this person complains about “paying to work”, libraries are often immensely expensive and he pays for that library with every paycheck and tax bill.

siberpunk · 6 months ago
From this perspective, nothing we call ‘free’ is really free. Isn’t the purpose of taxes to receive some kind of service in return? I gladly use this service, and not having to spend part of my income for an office space (which I don't have to) doesn’t strike me as entitled. Maybe some thoughts are getting lost in conversation here.
siberpunk commented on Ode to libraries (the book ones)   sibervepunk.com/ode-to-li... · Posted by u/siberpunk
cyphar · 6 months ago
Most libraries in most countries I've been to have community spaces intended for (among other things) study and work. Most have dozens of services completely unrelated to loaning out books.
siberpunk · 6 months ago
Yes, another user in the comments mentioned that their library offers streaming services, rental video games and cheap/free snacks. Right when I was thinking I am lucky with mine :)
siberpunk commented on Ode to libraries (the book ones)   sibervepunk.com/ode-to-li... · Posted by u/siberpunk
dpassens · 6 months ago
> So what to do? Go to nearest coffee shop. You’re lucky if they don’t play tasteless trendy music. You’re lucky if a waiter doesn’t keep asking if you need anything, isn’t intrusive, and doesn’t subtly let you know when it’s time to leave by checking on you constantly . You’re lucky if no teenagers talking loudly about their-whatever-teens-talk-about-these-days. Oh, by the way, pay a lot of money to be here and to drink a nice cup of burnt coffe.

Astonishingly entitled. The point of a coffee shop isn't to provide you with a nice space to work but to sell coffee.

siberpunk · 6 months ago
Fair point, but we can’t ignore the fact that many coffee shops provide desks with power outlets, and sometimes even dedicated workspaces, and that this has become a clear trend. These coffee shops also earn revenue from customers who want a workspace, and they incorporate this into their marketing. So, cafes don’t rely solely on coffee sales; the environment they provide contributes significantly to their income. Many people choose cafes as an alternative way to spend time outside. Therefore, some bussinesses aim to offer a workspace, some a social space, and some simply create an environment for spending time. And their offer just don't work for me. I'm not demanding anything from them; I just don’t use their business.

u/siberpunk

KarmaCake day160April 3, 2024View Original