Readit News logoReadit News
pbw commented on The Timmy Trap   jenson.org/timmy/... · Posted by u/metadat
pitpatagain · 15 days ago
Ah ok, you meant the second thing.

I don't think the Plato's Cave analogy is confusing, I think it's completely wrong. It's "not in the article" in the sense that it is literally not conceptually what the article is about and it's also not really what Plato's Cave is about either, just taking superficial bits of it and slotting things into it, making it doubly wrong.

pbw · 15 days ago
And you think the comparison to book reviews is equally bad? Both are from GPT-5.
pbw commented on The Timmy Trap   jenson.org/timmy/... · Posted by u/metadat
pbw · 15 days ago
Yes, GPT-5's response above was not shortening because there was nothing in the OP about Plato's Cave. I agree that Plato's cave analogy was confusing here. Here's a better one from GPT-5, which is deeply ironic:

A New Yorker book review often does the opposite of mere shortening. The reviewer:

* Places the book in a broader cultural, historical, or intellectual context.

* Brings in other works—sometimes reviewing two or three books together.

* Builds a thesis that connects them, so the review becomes a commentary on a whole idea-space, not just the book’s pages.

This is exactly the kind of externalized, integrative thinking Jenson says LLMs lack. The New Yorker style uses the book as a jumping-off point for an argument; an LLM “shortening” is more like reading only the blurbs and rephrasing them. In Jenson’s framing, a human summary—like a rich, multi-book New Yorker review—operates on multiple layers: it compresses, but also expands meaning by bringing in outside information and weaving a narrative. The LLM’s output is more like a stripped-down plot synopsis—it can sound polished, but it isn’t about anything beyond what’s already in the text.

pbw · 15 days ago
Essentially, Jenson's complaint is "When I ask an LLM to 'summarize' it interprets that differently from how I think of the word 'summarize' and I shouldn't have to give it more than a one-word prompt because it should infer what I'm asking for."
pbw commented on The Timmy Trap   jenson.org/timmy/... · Posted by u/metadat
pitpatagain · 15 days ago
I can't decide how to read your last sentence.

That reflection seems totally off to me: fluent, and flavored with elements of the article, but also not really what the article is about and a pretty weird/tortured use of the elements of the allegory of the cave, like it doesn't seem anything like Plato's Cave to me. Ironically demonstrates the actual main gist of the article if you ask me.

But maybe you meant that you think that summary is good and not textually similar to that post so demonstrating something more sophisticated than "shortening".

pbw · 15 days ago
Yes, GPT-5's response above was not shortening because there was nothing in the OP about Plato's Cave. I agree that Plato's cave analogy was confusing here. Here's a better one from GPT-5, which is deeply ironic:

A New Yorker book review often does the opposite of mere shortening. The reviewer:

* Places the book in a broader cultural, historical, or intellectual context.

* Brings in other works—sometimes reviewing two or three books together.

* Builds a thesis that connects them, so the review becomes a commentary on a whole idea-space, not just the book’s pages.

This is exactly the kind of externalized, integrative thinking Jenson says LLMs lack. The New Yorker style uses the book as a jumping-off point for an argument; an LLM “shortening” is more like reading only the blurbs and rephrasing them. In Jenson’s framing, a human summary—like a rich, multi-book New Yorker review—operates on multiple layers: it compresses, but also expands meaning by bringing in outside information and weaving a narrative. The LLM’s output is more like a stripped-down plot synopsis—it can sound polished, but it isn’t about anything beyond what’s already in the text.

pbw commented on The Timmy Trap   jenson.org/timmy/... · Posted by u/metadat
pbw · 15 days ago
LLM's can shorten and maybe tend to if you just say "summarize this" but you can trivially ask them to do more. I asked for a summary of Jenson's post and then offer a reflection, GPT-5 said, "It's similar to the Plato’s Cave analogy: humans see shadows (the input text) and infer deeper reality (context, intent), while LLMs either just recite shadows (shorten) or imagine creatures behind them that aren’t there (hallucinate). The “hallucination” behavior is like adding “ghosts”—false constructs that feel real but aren’t grounded.

That ain't shortening because none of that was in his post.

pbw commented on Sperm are very different from all other cells   bbc.com/future/article/20... · Posted by u/viewtransform
pbw · 3 months ago
We need to get the male’s genetic material into the female’s body. How many redundant copies should we send. 100? 1000? A voice in back of the room: 50 million.
pbw commented on Typing 118 WPM broke my brain in the right ways   balaji-amg.surge.sh/blog/... · Posted by u/b0a04gl
pbw · 3 months ago
This is cool but I feel like typing speed and vim skills are going to play less of a role in overall development speed as AI use increases. But certainly it won’t hurt to type fast, even if it’s mostly typing prompts.
pbw commented on At Amazon, some coders say their jobs have begun to resemble warehouse work   nytimes.com/2025/05/25/bu... · Posted by u/milkshakes
pbw · 3 months ago
I also started in the 1990’s and agree the evolution has been as you describe it. It does highly depend on where you work, but the tightly managed JIRA-driven development seems awfully popular.

But I fall short of declaring the 1990s or 2000s or 2010s were the glory days and now things suck. I think part of it is nostalgia bias. I can think of a job I spent 4 years and list all the good parts of the experience. But I suspect I’m forgetting over a lot of mediocre or negative stuff.

At any rate I still like the work today. There are still generally hard challenges that you can overcome, people that depend on you, new technologies to learn about. Generically good stuff.

pbw · 3 months ago
Another datapoint is working earlier eras sound bad to me: punchcards, assembly, COBOL, FORTRAN. Yes I suspect those people had a blast.
pbw commented on At Amazon, some coders say their jobs have begun to resemble warehouse work   nytimes.com/2025/05/25/bu... · Posted by u/milkshakes
vjvjvjvjghv · 3 months ago
With all the changes coming up, I am happy that I am retiring soon. Since I started in the 90s, SW dev has become more and more tightly controlled and feels more like an assembly line. When I started, you could work for weeks and months without much interruption. You had plenty of time for experimentation and creativity. Now everything is ticked based and you constantly have to report status and justify what you are doing. I am sure there will always be devs who are doing interesting work but I feel these opportunities will be less and less.

In a way it's only fair. Automation has made a lot of jobs obsolete or miserable. Software devs are a big contributor to automation so we shouldn't be surprised that we are finally managing to automate our own jobs away,

pbw · 3 months ago
I also started in the 1990’s and agree the evolution has been as you describe it. It does highly depend on where you work, but the tightly managed JIRA-driven development seems awfully popular.

But I fall short of declaring the 1990s or 2000s or 2010s were the glory days and now things suck. I think part of it is nostalgia bias. I can think of a job I spent 4 years and list all the good parts of the experience. But I suspect I’m forgetting over a lot of mediocre or negative stuff.

At any rate I still like the work today. There are still generally hard challenges that you can overcome, people that depend on you, new technologies to learn about. Generically good stuff.

pbw commented on At Amazon, some coders say their jobs have begun to resemble warehouse work   nytimes.com/2025/05/25/bu... · Posted by u/milkshakes
ath3nd · 3 months ago
> But know you have to keep doing this forever. Or to work for yourself or in an environment where you get the gains, not the employer

Or, you know, being a member of society, you can find other members of society who feel like you, and organize together to place demands on employers that...you know...stops them from exploiting you.

- That's how you got the weekend: https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200117-the-modern-phe...

- And that's how you got the 8-hour working week: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day_movement

- And that's how you got children off the factories: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_labour

But, you know, you can always hustle against your fellow SEs, and try to appease your masters. Where others work the bare minimum of 8 hours, why not work 12, and also on the weekend? It's also fine.

Generating shareholder value is very important for the well-being of society! /s

pbw · 3 months ago
By all means “organize together to place demands on your employers”. I didn’t say don’t do that. But there are 24 hours in a day — maybe strive to be good at your job AND organize instead of doing just one or the other?
pbw commented on At Amazon, some coders say their jobs have begun to resemble warehouse work   nytimes.com/2025/05/25/bu... · Posted by u/milkshakes
almostgotcaught · 3 months ago
Bro lol. You were this close - you're channeling Marx (literally saying the same stuff he was) and instead of coming to the obvious conclusion (unions) you're like nah I'm just gonna alienate myself further. It's just amazing how thoroughly people have been brainwashed. I'm 100% sure nothing will ever improve.
pbw · 3 months ago
“I'm 100% sure nothing will ever improve.” Nothing? Ever? Brainwashed?

u/pbw

KarmaCake day1035January 7, 2010
About
I started Tobeva Software to do consulting and contracting in cloud data pipelines and computer graphics. See https://tobeva.com/
View Original