Readit News logoReadit News
missingrib commented on New mathematical framework reshapes debate over simulation hypothesis   santafe.edu/news-center/n... · Posted by u/Gooblebrai
A_D_E_P_T · 3 months ago
You're offering a dichotomy:

1. Qualia exist as something separate from functional structure (so p-zombies are conceivable)

2. Qualia don't exist at all (Dennett-style eliminativism)

But I say that there is a third position: Qualia exist, but they are the internal presentation of a sufficiently complex self-model/world-model structure. They're not an additional ingredient that could be present or absent while the functional organization stays fixed.

To return to the posthuman thought experiment, I'm not saying the posthuman has no qualia, I'm saying the red "TOXIC" warning is qualia. It has phenomenal character. The point is that any system that satisfies certain criteria and registers information must do so as some phenomenal presentation or other. The structure doesn't generate qualia as a separate byproduct; the structure operating is the experience.

A p-zombie is only conceivable if qualia are ontologically detachable, but they're not. You can't have a physicalism which stands on its own two feet and have p-zombies at the same time.

Also, it's a fundamentally silly and childish notion. "What if everything behaves exactly as if conscious -- and is functionally analogous to a conscious agent -- but secretly isn't?" is hardly different from "couldn't something be H2O without being water?," "what if the universe was created last Thursday with false memories?," or "what if only I'm real?" These are dead-end questions. Like 14-year-old-stoner philosophy: "what if your red is ackshuallly my blue?!" The so-called "hard problem" either evaporates in the light of a rigorous structural physicalism, or it's just another silly dead-end.

missingrib · 3 months ago
You have first-person knowledge of qualia. I'm not really sure how you could deny that without claiming that qualia doesn't exist. You're claiming some middle ground here that I think almost all philosophers and neuroscientists would reject (on both sides).

> "couldn't something be H2O without being water?," "what if the universe was created last Thursday with false memories?," or "what if only I'm real?" These are dead-end questions. Like 14-year-old-stoner philosophy: "what if your red is ackshuallly my blue?!"

These are all legitimate philosophical problems, Kripke definitively solved the first one in the 1970s in Naming and Necessity. You should try to be more humble about subjects which you clearly haven't read enough about. Read the Mary's room argument.

missingrib commented on New mathematical framework reshapes debate over simulation hypothesis   santafe.edu/news-center/n... · Posted by u/Gooblebrai
A_D_E_P_T · 3 months ago
The zombie intuition comes from treating qualia as an "add-on" rather than as the internal presentation of a self-model.

"P-zombie" is not a coherent leftover possibility once you fix the full physical structure. If a system has the full self-model (temporal-spatial sense) / world-model / memory binding / counterfactual evaluator / control loop, then that structure is what having experience amounts to (no extra ingredient need be added or subtracted).

I hope I don't later get accused of plagiarizing myself, but let's embark on a thought experiment. Imagine a bitter, toxic alkaloid that does not taste bitter. Suppose ingestion produces no distinctive local sensation at all – no taste, no burn, no nausea. The only "response" is some silent parameter in the nervous system adjusting itself, without crossing the threshold of conscious salience. There are such cases: Damaged nociception, anosmia, people congenitally insensitive to pain. In every such case, genetic fitness is slashed. The organism does not reliably avoid harm.

Now imagine a different design. You are a posthuman entity whose organic surface has been gradually replaced. Instead of a tongue, you carry an in‑line sensor which performs a spectral analysis of whatever you take in. When something toxic is detected, a red symbol flashes in your field of vision: “TOXIC -- DO NOT INGEST.” That visual event is a quale. It has a minimally structured phenomenal character -- colored, localized, bound to alarm -- and it stands in for what once was bitterness.

We can push this further. Instead of a visual alert, perhaps your motor system simply locks your arm; perhaps your global workspace is flooded with a gray, oppressive feeling; perhaps a sharp auditory tone sounds in your private inner ear. Each variant is still a mode of felt response to sensory information. Here's what I'm getting at with this: There is no way for a conscious creature to register and use risky input without some structure of "what it is like" coming along for the ride.

missingrib · 3 months ago
That is not what a p-zombie is. The p-zombie does not have any qualia at all. If you want to deny the existence of qualia, that's one way a few philosophers have gone (Dennett), but that seems pretty ridiculous to most people.
missingrib commented on Discord says 70k users may have had their government IDs leaked in breach   theverge.com/news/797051/... · Posted by u/PaulKeeble
missingrib · 5 months ago
Why haven't zero knowledge proofs shined in this area? Can anyone explain?
missingrib commented on Social anxiety isn't about being liked   chrislakin.blog/p/social-... · Posted by u/rohmanhakim
nexus2045 · 5 months ago
Mine is similar to this. In addition the anxiety comes from me thinking that most interactions are banal and more about “trading good vibes and energy” with the other person rather than a genuine deep conversation, and I fear that my facial expressions will reflect what I’m really feeling inside - “ugh can we transition off talking about my weekend or the weather?”. And also because I’m not that witty without alcohol, but it’s almost like most of western small talk is based off of exchanging humor and wit, then laughing very loudly at the punchline. So my anxiety is more to do with not performing well enough to have this stereotypical exchange done smoothly.
missingrib · 5 months ago
This is relatable, mine is somewhat similar. It feels like a very specific version of performance anxiety that unfortunately affects the most banal social interactions. It is obviously multiplied tenfold when I'm in a situation where there are actual stakes (an interview, a first date, etc), but it still applies if I am just talking to a friend of a friend at a party that I don't know very well. The stakes feel very high to me because it's our first time talking.

It's less that I need them to like me or fear being disliked and more that I am just way too conscious of the stakes and the social interaction that's happening, which causes my brain to sort of freeze up. It feels like when I used to play tennis in high school. I'd do great at practice, then freeze up and barely remember how to hit the ball in games because the stakes on each point felt so high.

If I'm around some good friends it completely goes away. If I have hung around the person enough (even without directly talking to them), it goes away. I've also had random days where I don't feel the performance anxiety and performed really well in those situations (and coincidentally some of those days I'd meet a new group of friends or a girlfriend). It's extremely frustrating. Xanax makes the performance anxiety go away completely but slows me down cognitively so I become much less witty and interesting to talk to.

missingrib commented on AGI is an engineering problem, not a model training problem   vincirufus.com/posts/agi-... · Posted by u/vincirufus
AIPedant · 7 months ago
It is vacuously true that a Turing machine can implement human intelligence: simply solve the Schrödinger equation for every atom in the human body and local environment. Obviously this is cost-prohibitive and we don’t have even 0.1% of the data required to make the simulation. Maybe we could simulate every single neuron instead, but again it’ll take many decades to gather the data in living human brains, and it would still be extremely expensive computationally since we would need to simulate every protein and mRNA molecule across billions of neurons and glial cells.

So the question is whether human intelligence has higher-level primitives that can be implemented more efficiently - sort of akin to solving differential equations, is there a “symbolic solution” or are we forced to go “numerically” no matter how clever we are?

missingrib · 7 months ago
That is only true if consciousness is physical and the result of some physics going on in the human brain. We have no idea if that's true.
missingrib commented on Claude Opus 4 and 4.1 can now end a rare subset of conversations   anthropic.com/research/en... · Posted by u/virgildotcodes
derektank · 7 months ago
>Consciousness serves no functional purpose for machine learning models, they don't need it and we didn't design them to have it.

Isn't consciousness an emergent property of brains? If so, how do we know that it doesn't serve a functional purpose and that it wouldn't be necessary for an AI system to have consciousness (assuming we wanted to train it to perform cognitive tasks done by people)?

Now, certain aspects of consciousness (awareness of pain, sadness, loneliness, etc.) might serve no purpose for a non-biological system and there's no reason to expect those aspects would emerge organically. But I don't think you can extend that to the entire concept of consciousness.

missingrib · 7 months ago
>Isn't consciousness an emergent property of brains?

Probably not.

missingrib commented on AGI Is Still 30 Years Away – Ege Erdil and Tamay Besiroglu   dwarkesh.com/p/ege-tamay... · Posted by u/Philpax
ggreer · a year ago
Is there any specific mental task that an average human is capable of that you believe computers will not be able to do?

Also does this also mean that you believe that brain emulations (uploads) are not possible, even given an arbitrary amount of compute power?

missingrib · a year ago
Yes, they can't have understanding or intentionality.
missingrib commented on MIT study explains why laws are written in an incomprehensible style   news.mit.edu/2024/mit-stu... · Posted by u/keepamovin
NordSteve · a year ago
In the original, if either the stock transfer books of the Company _or_ the book entry system of the warrant agent are closed, the person becomes a holder on the next date when either are open.

In your rewrite, if both the stock transfer books and the book entry system of the warrant agent are closed, the person becomes a holder on the next day when both are open.

If you search for the language of the original, you'll find a bunch of examples of the exact same language. I'm with the others that this is well-litigated language that no one wants to change. https://www.bing.com/search?pglt=161&q=Each+person+in+whose+....

missingrib · a year ago
Pretty easy to fix:

[2] 3.3.4 Date of Issuance. To determine the record date for ownership of Common Stock shares (whether issued as a book entry or certificate), ask: Were the Company's stock transfer books or the Warrant Agent's book entry system open when the Warrant was surrendered and the Warrant Price was paid? If yes, the record date is that same date of surrender and payment. If no, the record date is the close of business on the next day when either the books or systems are open.

missingrib commented on LLMs, Theory of Mind, and Cheryl's Birthday   github.com/norvig/pytudes... · Posted by u/stereoabuse
pfisherman · a year ago
LLMs and NLP are to verbal reasoning what the calculator is to quantitative reasoning.

Language and by extension verbal reasoning is full of ambiguity and semantic slipperiness. For example, what degree of semantic similarity distinguishes synonymous from synonym-ish concepts? When do we partition concepts into homonyms?

I think part of the problem with how people evaluate LLMs is that the expectations that people have. Natural language != ontology. The expectation should be more Chomsky and less Boole. Asking it to solve math problems written in paragraph form is a waste of time. Use a calculator for that! Solving riddles? Code it up in prolog!

Instead you should be thinking of what operations you can do on concepts, meaning, and abstract ideas! That is what these things do.

missingrib · a year ago
Is this really verbal reasoning? It's just a logic problem.
missingrib commented on Physically attractive attorneys tend to have greater success in federal court   psypost.org/physically-at... · Posted by u/bookofjoe
User23 · 2 years ago
They also tend to be smarter[1]. What we perceive as physical attractiveness is obviously some kind of mate selection adaptation. It’s no surprise that it would correspond with both intelligence and fertility.

The halo effect exists because it’s a somewhat valid heuristic.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01602...

missingrib · 2 years ago
It correlates, which could also explain a link in the opposite direction. Secondary sex characteristics sometimes have nothing to do with overall fitness. You can see this most clearly in animal species where the females value elaborate ornamentation, like peacocks.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisherian_runaway and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexy_son_hypothesis.

u/missingrib

KarmaCake day176June 19, 2019View Original