Readit News logoReadit News
AIPedant commented on Is life a form of computation?   thereader.mitpress.mit.ed... · Posted by u/redeemed
ants_everywhere · 5 months ago
I'm not confused, and an abacus is a digital computer.

You keep referring to what we are interested in, but that's not a relevant quantity here.

A symbol is a discrete sign that has some sort of symbol table (explicit or not) describing the mapping of the sign to the intended interpretation. An analog computer often directly solves the physical problem (e.g. an ODE) by building a device whose behavior is governed by that ODE. That is, it solves the ODE by just applying the laws of physics directly to the world.

If your claim is that analog computers are symbolic but the same physical process is not merely because we are "interested in" the result then I don't agree. And you'd also be committed to saying proteins are symbolic if we build an analog computer that runs on DNA and proteins. In which case it seems like they become always symbolic if we're always interested in life as computation.

AIPedant · 5 months ago
This is where you are confused - in fact just plain wrong:

  A symbol is a discrete sign that has some sort of symbol table (explicit or not) describing the mapping of the sign to the intended interpretation
Symbols do not have to be discrete signs. You are thinking of inscriptions, not symbols. Symbols are impossible for humans to define. For an analog computer, the physical system of gears / etc symbolically represent the physical problem you are trying to solve. X turns of the gear symbolizes Y physical kilometers.

AIPedant commented on Is life a form of computation?   thereader.mitpress.mit.ed... · Posted by u/redeemed
ants_everywhere · 5 months ago
analog computers don't generally compute by operating on symbols. For example see the classic video on fire control computers https://youtu.be/s1i-dnAH9Y4?t=496

OP's specific phrasing is that they "map symbols to symbols". Analog computers don't do that. Some can, but that's not their definition.

Turing machines et al. are a model of computation in mathematics. Humans do math by operating on symbols, so that's why that model operates on symbols. It's not an inherent part of the definition.

AIPedant · 5 months ago
No, analog computers truly are symbolic. The simplest analog computer - the abacus - is obviously symbolic, and thus is also true for WW2 gun fire control computers, ball-and-shaft integrators, etc. They do not use inscriptions which is maybe where you're getting confused. But the turning of a differential gear to perform an addition is a symbolic operation: we are no more interested in the mechanics of the gear than we are the calligraphy of a written computation or the construction of an abacus bead, we are interested in the physical quantity that gear is symbolically representing.

Your comment is only true if you take an excessively reductive view of "symbol."

AIPedant commented on Is life a form of computation?   thereader.mitpress.mit.ed... · Posted by u/redeemed
AIPedant · 5 months ago
Articles like this indicate we should lock down the definition of "computation" that meaningfully distinguishes computing machines from other physical phenomena - a computation is a process that maps symbols (or strings of symbols) to other symbols, obeying certain simple rules[1]. A computer is a machine that does computations.

In that sense life is obviously not a computation: it makes some sense to view DNA as symbolic but it is misleading to do the same for the proteins they encode. These proteins are solving physical problems, not expressing symbolic solutions to symbolic problems - a wrench is not a symbolic solution to the problem of a symbolic lug nut. From this POV the analogy of DNA to computer program is just wrong: they are both analogous to blueprints, but not particularly analogous to each other. We should insist that DNA is no more "computational" than the rules that dictate how elements are formed from subatomic particles.

[1] Turing computability, lambda definability, primitive recursion, whatever.

AIPedant commented on The American dream is ending in a psychotic breakdown   telegraph.co.uk/news/2025... · Posted by u/harambae
AIPedant · 5 months ago
I understand the broader point but it is not actually constitutionally problematic for the executive branch to assert that a suspect committed a crime - of course they believe that, that's why the suspect was arrested! It is better for an elected official to preface things with "allegedly" "we believe" etc, but the governor is ultimately speaking on behalf of the prosecution, not the judge. The first half of this article is based on a bad-faith misreading of the governor's words.
AIPedant commented on Four Fallacies of Modern AI   blog.apiad.net/p/the-four... · Posted by u/13years
koonsolo · 5 months ago
I look at it the complete opposite way: humans are defining intelligence upwards to make sure they can perceive themselves better than a computer.

It's clear that humans consider humans as intelligent. Is a monkey intelligent? A dolphin? A crow? An ant?

So I ask you, what is the lowest form of intelligence to you?

(I'm also a huge David Lynch fan by the way :D)

AIPedant · 5 months ago
If you look at my comment history you will see that I don't think LLMs are nearly as intelligent as rats or pigeons. Rats and pigeons have an intuitive understanding of quantity and LLMs do not.

I don't know what "the lowest form of intelligence" is, nobody has a clue what cognition means in lampreys and hagfish.

AIPedant commented on Four Fallacies of Modern AI   blog.apiad.net/p/the-four... · Posted by u/13years
entropyneur · 5 months ago
This article seems to fall straight into the trap it aims to warn us about. All this talk about "true" understanding, embodiment, etc. is needless antropomorphizing.

A much better framework for thinking about intelligence is simply as the ability to make predictions about the world (including conditional ones like "what will happen if we take this action"). Whether it's achieved through "true understanding" (however you define it; I personally doubt you can) or "mimicking" bears no relevance for most of the questions about the impact of AI we are trying to answer.

AIPedant · 5 months ago
"Making predictions about the world" is a reductive and childish way to describe intelligence in humans. Did David Lynch make Mulholland Drive because he predicted it would be a good movie?

The most depressing thing about AI summers is watching tech people cynically try to define intelligence downwards to excuse failures in current AI.

AIPedant commented on Minerals represent potential biosignatures in the search for life on Mars   nature.com/articles/s4158... · Posted by u/stevenjgarner
Razengan · 5 months ago
The Fermi "Paradox" is based on so many naive self-referencing assumptions it's ridiculous that it's considered so seriously so often.
AIPedant · 5 months ago
Putin and Xi fantasizing about immortality via 3D-printed organs quite starkly illustrated that many adults do not understand the difference between science and science fiction.

Deleted Comment

Deleted Comment

AIPedant commented on A history of metaphorical brain talk in psychiatry   nature.com/articles/s4138... · Posted by u/fremden
unyttigfjelltol · 5 months ago
> we have had little insight into exactly how disturbances in the brain cause psychiatric disorders

I recently heard a well-regarded neuropsychiatrist disavow any pretense of connecting his evaluation to the actual organic function of the brain or body. This was surprising for a—as far as I know— organic-focused subspecialty of a branch of medicine that routinely prescribes pharmaceuticals to achieve organic changes in the brain and body.

AIPedant · 5 months ago
Keep in mind that we also have no clue how general anesthesia works! It's not just psychiatry, many medications targeting the nervous system (e.g. muscle relaxants) have unknown mechanisms of action https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Drugs_with_unknown_me...

I think you're being extremely reductive about what neuropsychiatry actually entails.

u/AIPedant

KarmaCake day993April 5, 2025View Original